Bynum can't wait to form "twin tower" with Gasol

[Allanon]

Oberto is more than capable of guarding either or.

That is the problem right there. Oberto is not capable of guarding either Pau or Bynum. Remember in the last Bynum vs Oberto game? Bynum was killing Oberto so Oberto's only defense was to push Bynum in the back? That's the only way Oberto was stopping Bynum.

So Duncan crushes Bynum or Pau and Oberto is more than capable of guarding either or. He might not dominate, but he will do all the things necessary to win. Then Kobe beats Wade or Lebron. So you are saying that either Bynum or Pau vs Oberto is enough to off set the domination of either Bynum or Pau by Duncan AND the domination of Wade or Lebron by Kobe?

I think Kobe's a great player and all but I don't think he would dominate Wade or LeBron. When you get Superstars like Duncan, Kobe, Wade, LeBron, the difference isn't that much.

So basically Pau+Bynum+LeBron would be better than say Duncan+Fabricio+Kobe

[Spur-Addict]

Uhm, you're the one who said Kobe's injury is not an injury just because he hasn't had surgery. The man has a torn pinky with "blasted ligaments" only held in place by tape and that's not an "injury".

I say both Manu + Kobe have injuries and both play through them. Both Kobe + Manu say they are "fine" but fans like to make excuses for them.

Even if Kobe has an injury, lets just say to give your weak points a rest. Kobe still has his mobility, that is way different than being a stationary player. These are NBA players, upper echelon NBA players at that.

Which means these players can finish with both hands. This also means they can play for an extended period of time with a hand issue (See Manu as well). If you have no mobility I dont care who you are, you are not lasting over an extended period. Willis Reed can play a game with a mobility issue, but an extended period? No. It's the same thing with Manu, you have no legs, you are done. This makes it a far more serious issue opposed to a pinky. A pinky Bro, get real.

[Allanon]

I just showed you an article that says differently. The writer that was interviewing Mitch came to that conclusion after asking him point blank questions. I have heard him talk about it, along with other journalists who interviewed him. All teams are always looking to get better or at trade scenarios. So you can speculate all your b.s. but when I give you something in which there is concrete evidence, with maybe only minor room for interpretation, you say unless he is quoted exactly as saying no, it does not count?

All I see in that article is Mitch saying "I don't know". So it is a maybe but not a yes in either direction. The truth is as a GM, if a deal for Pau for Kwame came along, would you say No?

[DPG21920]

I can post numerous articles from blogs, reporters and such that all back up what I say, so evidently that is the wide consensus around the league. Is it a 100%? No, but what is?

http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/hei...ngeles-lakers/

Hurt on Jan. 13, Bynum was expected back in March but wound up undergoing arthroscopic surgery and missing the rest of the season. With Pau Gasol arriving to take his place – another piece of good luck for the Lakers who wouldn’t have been pursuing the deal with Memphis if Bynum hadn’t been hurt – the Lakers were never sure how good they were.

They certainly weren’t physical and or imposing defensively. On the other hand, their offense was so good – – they were 34-8 with Gasol in the lineup going into the Finals – there didn’t seem to be anyone better, or close.

It was almost as if they were on a lark. They would be better next season but in the meantime, why not try to take advantage of the opportunity at hand?

They wound up running into the Celtics, who looked out on their feet after going seven, seven and six games deeps in the three first rounds, but seemed quite refreshed in the Finals.

Bryant, who had smoke coming out of his ears in the interview room after their Game 6 loss in Boston, was over it by the time he talked to Laker beat writers three days later after his exit interview with head coach Phil Jackson.

“I’m comfortable with what we have,” Bryant said. “Whatever Mitch [Kupchak, Laker GM] decides to do, he decides to do. It’s more of a relaxing summer for me because I know we have an opportunity to win. It’s exciting.”

[DPG21920]

All I see in that article is Mitch saying "I don't know". So it is a maybe but not a yes in either direction. The truth is as a GM, if a deal for Pau for Kwame came along, would you say No?

Are you that dense? Obviously no one would say no to that. That is not what is being disputed. The point was that the deal MORE THAN LIKELY would not have been made if Bynum was never injured. Which was in reference to my point about Manu being hurt versus Bynum being hurt. Lakers arguments that "oh, well we did not have Bynum" is just silly. You got to replace Bynum with a better, proven player, which would not of happened (which most logical humans that follow the NBA know) if Bynum never got hurt. With Gino, the Spurs had no replacement and could not make a trade during the playoffs. If we got to bring in T-Mac for Gino and still lost, then you can say not having Bynum versus an injured Ginobili is comparable.

[DPG21920]

That is the problem right there. Oberto is not capable of guarding either Pau or Bynum. Remember in the last Bynum vs Oberto game? Bynum was killing Oberto so Oberto's only defense was to push Bynum in the back? That's the only way Oberto was stopping Bynum.



I think Kobe's a great player and all but I don't think he would dominate Wade or LeBron. When you get Superstars like Duncan, Kobe, Wade, LeBron, the difference isn't that much.

So basically Pau+Bynum+LeBron would be better than say Duncan+Fabricio+Kobe

Your not a statistics major are you? You can not look at a sample size so small to make a judgment. Oberto had defended plenty of players better than Bynum and helped the Spurs win a le. In fact, he balled in the playoffs in 07. So yes, he is capable of guarding Pau or Bynum and the fact he has Tim to help out makes it even better.

[Allanon]

Are you that dense? Obviously no one would say no to that. That is not what is being disputed. The point was that the deal MORE THAN LIKELY would not have been made if Bynum was never injured. Which was in reference to my point about Manu being hurt versus Bynum being hurt. Lakers arguments that "oh, well we did not have Bynum" is just silly. You got to replace Bynum with a better, proven player, which would not of happened (which most logical humans that follow the NBA know) if Bynum never got hurt. With Gino, the Spurs had no replacement and could not make a trade during the playoffs. If we got to bring in T-Mac for Gino and still lost, then you can say not having Bynum versus an injured Ginobili is comparable.

It sounds logical that if given the Pau for Kwame ever appeared any GM would say yes so I think it's more likely that the Lakers would have made the trade.

Either way, I just don't KNOW.

But the reality is this point is not worth arguing over, we can disagree all we want upon this and in the end only Mitch really knows.

[Allanon]

Your not a statistics major are you? You can not look at a sample size so small to make a judgment. Oberto had defended plenty of players better than Bynum and helped the Spurs win a le. In fact, he balled in the playoffs in 07. So yes, he is capable of guarding Pau or Bynum and the fact he has Tim to help out makes it even better.

Yes, Tim helps out alot when Fabricio is around doesn't he? It's just not me, just look through the Spurs threads in the other section. I don't see a whole lotta love for the Great Fabricio from Spur fans except you.

[DPG21920]

It sounds logical that if given the Pau for Kwame ever appeared any GM would say yes so I think it's more likely that the Lakers would have made the trade.

Either way, I just don't KNOW.

But the reality is this point is not worth arguing over, we can disagree all we want upon this and in the end only Mitch really knows.

Once again, of course. No one would turn down that trade (unless of course you are really concerned about luxury tax). If Bynum does not get hurt, they do not call Memphis, which is the widely held belief amongst almost everyone that covers the NBA. Also, Mitch did not come right out when asked and say: this deal would have been done no matter what. That leads one to believe that it would not have gone down. Unless you think Memphis called the Lakers before Bynum got hurt and said: "hey, you want Gasol for Kwame?"

[DPG21920]

Yes, Tim helps out alot when Fabricio is around doesn't he? It's just not me, just look through the Spurs threads in the other section. I don't see a whole lotta love for the Great Fabricio from Spur fans except you.

Popovich, one of the best coaches in the league loves Oberto and so do many other players and coaches. Who gives a about what fans think? Same fans that wanted Bynum gone are now stroking him.

Please read this article about Oberto...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/M...9e71_html.html

Before each Hornets game, assistant coach Darrell Walker fills a whiteboard in the team's locker room with reminders about how to beat the Spurs.

Even after hours of watching videotape, the coaching staff relies on the hand-written word to reinforce the message. Each player's strengths, weaknesses and tendencies are broken down, reiterated with fat Sharpies.

Some Spurs, though, are easier to condense into a few words than others.

Walker's prompt about Spurs center Fabricio Oberto is straightforward and simple.

“That's a player,” Walker said before the Hornets set out Friday morning to tweak their approach after the Spurs, with a big assist from Oberto, scored a 110-99 victory in Game 3 on Thursday night. “A smart player.”

Check the box score from Game 3 and Oberto's contribution is nearly impossible to quantify. In just under 25 minutes of court time, he took only three shots and scored only two points.

But he played solid interior defense against All-Star power forward David West.

He grabbed nine rebounds and kept two more alive by tipping them out to teammates. That helped the Spurs gain a tiny advantage on the boards against one of the NBA's best offensive rebounding units.

He was most proud of his defensive work.

“Sometimes when you see us trying to be more aggressive on defense that is the main factor,” he said. “And when you do a good job on the boards, it just helps each other. Sometimes maybe it looks like you are not part of the team, but it's teamwork. I think the team really focused really well on that.

“Fifty-six (points) I think was a lot for our defense to give in the first half, and that was the main thing we focused on in the second half.”

Yielding only 43 in the second half gave the Spurs the cushion they needed to get their first victory of the series, and Oberto contributed two assists during the fourth-quarter surge that cemented their victory, including a pass to fellow Argentine Manu Ginobili for the biggest play of the fourth quarter.

With strong position in the low left block, Oberto took a pass from Tim Duncan for what most believed would be a move on the basket.

Instead, Oberto glimpsed Ginobili running to an open spot behind the 3-point line.

Passing up a short jumper for a Ginobili 3-pointer, he said, was an easy decision.

“I saw him from my right side running for the three,” Oberto said, “and I saw that Mo Peterson was inside the paint, clogging everything. And so that was it.

“When you pass the ball out to Manu, that is always a good play. Three points instead of two, and I always will want to pass to him out there when he is running alone.”

Ginobili nailed the wide-open 3-pointer and turned it into a four-point play after Bonzi Wells, racing to contest the shot, ran into him after he released the ball.

“That's one thing that I always put up there on the board, that he's a really good interior passer,” Walker said. “That pass to Ginobili, and another one from the top (of the key), a bounce pass to Tim, were great passes.

“Every coach in the league would like to have a guy like that on their team.”

Bruce Bowen, no stranger to having his effort go unnoticed, said all of Oberto's teammates understand his value rarely is reflected in the box score.

“Sometimes his stats don't appear on a piece of paper,” Bowen said. “Then you get in the film session and see the things he's done, you say, ‘Wow, look at Fab. That play was awesome.'

“And then a little later, you're saying it again.”

[DPG21920]

Yes, Tim helps out alot when Fabricio is around doesn't he? It's just not me, just look through the Spurs threads in the other section. I don't see a whole lotta love for the Great Fabricio from Spur fans except you.

Also, I am not arguing that Oberto is better than Bynum, Pau or any other player. I am arguing that having Kobe and Duncan + Oberto is more than enough to be better than Pau, Bynum and Wade or Lebron or Kobe

[Allanon]

Even if Kobe has an injury, lets just say to give your weak points a rest. Kobe still has his mobility, that is way different than being a stationary player. These are NBA players, upper echelon NBA players at that.

Which means these players can finish with both hands. This also means they can play for an extended period of time with a hand issue (See Manu as well). If you have no mobility I dont care who you are, you are not lasting over an extended period. Willis Reed can play a game with a mobility issue, but an extended period? No. It's the same thing with Manu, you have no legs, you are done. This makes it a far more serious issue opposed to a pinky. A pinky Bro, get real.

Nobody's saying that Manu's injury isn't more serious. I'm just saying that Kobe had an injury, who knows how much easier the Lakers would have won if Kobe didn't have an injury.

The point is with injuries, you can either make an excuse for them or not. Should Laker fans hold the injury card out if the Lakers don't win the championship this year because Kobe is injured? Should the Celtics get an asterik cuz Bynum was out? no, injury cards are for pussies. Celtics were the 2007/2008 Champs, end of story.

You takes your chances, no team should get an asterik (win or loss) due to injuries. You either win or you lose. In this case, Duncan lost to Pau and I am sure Duncan wouldn't preface his loss with "we lost because Manu was injured". And furthermore, Duncan wouldn't say or even think he ate Pau's lunch during the WCF because Pau helped his team win.

[DPG21920]

So what do you think the result would have been if everyone that played at least one minute in the Spurs v Lakers WCF was healthy completely?

[Allanon]

So what do you think the result would have been if everyone that played at least one minute in the Spurs v Lakers WCF was healthy completely?

It would have been a much more interesting series.

[Spur-Addict]

Nobody's saying that Manu's injury isn't more serious. I'm just saying that Kobe had an injury, who knows how much easier the Lakers would have won if Kobe didn't have an injury.

The point is with injuries, you can either make an excuse for them or not. Should Laker fans hold the injury card out if the Lakers don't win the championship this year because Kobe is injured? Should the Celtics get an asterik cuz Bynum was out? no, injury cards are for pussies. Celtics were the 2007/2008 Champs, end of story.

You takes your chances, no team should get an asterik (win or loss) due to injuries. You either win or you lose. In this case, Duncan lost to Pau and I am sure Duncan wouldn't preface his loss with "we lost because Manu was injured". And furthermore, Duncan wouldn't say or even think he ate Pau's lunch during the WCF because Pau helped his team win.

All of this is true, but you still can't deny the fact that he became a zombie out there. Yeah he suited up, as any player should do come playoff time, but there is a huge difference between no mobility and a pinky injury.

The way you speak of Pau is as if he was some magical being, and when things were more even it showed against Boston.

[DPG21920]

It would have been a much more interesting series.

Meaning a closer series? Which implies Manu's injury was more serious than Kobe's.

[Allanon]

All of this is true, but you still can't deny the fact that he became a zombie out there. Yeah he suited up, as any player should do come playoff time, but there is a huge difference between no mobility and a pinky injury.

The way you speak of Pau is as if he was some magical being, and when things were more even it showed against Boston.

Pau sucked against Boston. It seemed as if he just disappeared. Then come the Olympics, he starting playing very well again even against the likes of DHo & Chris Bosh. That's my whole point in the Olympic Pau > > Finals Pau statement.

[Allanon]

Meaning a closer series? Which implies Manu's injury was more serious than Kobe's.

Of course Manu's injury is more serious than Kobe's, I never debated it. I debated whether Kobe has an injury or an "ailment". I also said we'll never know how good Kobe would have been without his injury just like we'll never know how good Manu would have been without his.

The whole "What If xxxxxx was not injured" argument in my opinion is always a pointless argument.

[Spur-Addict]

Pau sucked against Boston. It seemed as if he just disappeared. Then come the Olympics, he starting playing very well again even against the likes of DHo & Chris Bosh. That's my whole point in the Olympic Pau > > Finals Pau statement.

Magic Pau? Or Difference in talent ?

I'll take the latter as it is quite obvious.

[Allanon]

Magic Pau? Or Difference in talent ?

I'll take the latter as it is quite obvious.

Nah, I take Magic Pau.

In the Olympics he gets fired up and leads his team, in NBA play, he defers to Kobe to lead. He just has to stop being a wuss. I do think we'll see a much tougher "Magic Pau" this season, regardless of KG/Duncan/DHo, etc. With Pau's skill and size, he should be able to score 20 on pretty much any opponent.

[Spur-Addict]

Nah, I take Magic Pau.

In the Olympics he gets fired up and leads his team, in NBA play, he defers to Kobe to lead. He just has to stop being a wuss. I do think we'll see a much tougher "Magic Pau" this season, regardless of KG/KG/DHo, etc. With Pau's skill and size, he should be able to score 20 on pretty much any opponent.

This has been the same eval for years. Pau needs a bodyguard, and if Bynum so much as flinches, it will end the same.

[Allanon]

This has been the same eval for years. Pau needs a bodyguard, and if Bynum so much as flinches, it will end the same.

I'll have to wait a few months to decide this and if it's true, I would admit it.

[Spur-Addict]

I'll have to wait a few months to decide this and if it's true, I would admit it.

I'd wait until the serious areas of the post season to make a decision, but that's just me.

[21_Blessings]

lol look at all these pathetic, delusional SA fans who think their team actually has a shot next season. Hilarious.

Your team is done. Time to accept that reality.

Just pretend it's 97 all over again, bench Duncan for the year and tank for Rubio or something. It's the only chance the Spurs have to be relevant over the next 5-8 whilst the Lakers steamroll the league.

[DPG21920]

Smilies are for girls