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I don't buy your reason #2, timvp.
Taking that to the extreme (and assuming that TD is exempt from any such rule), then Pop will have to trade Rasho (hmmm), Manu, and Tony in five years.
Play him or trade him.
I don't buy your reason #2, timvp.
Taking that to the extreme (and assuming that TD is exempt from any such rule), then Pop will have to trade Rasho (hmmm), Manu, and Tony in five years.
Kevin Garnett once said that he thought Cliff Robinson was the best low post defender in the league. I've also read that several players have said it to.
I don't remember him saying that but i do know he's always said that Cliff Robinson is HIS toughest defender. KG has a harder time against the long, lankier guys like Cliff and Rasheed.
I think Cliff is getting a bad rap here. Any team with the chance to pick him up should jump to it.
timvp,
Did you watch the game last night? Malik didn't get any crunch time rebounds. That is what a big man is for. Yeah, throughout the game, he put up consistent stats, but when it mattered, he turned the ball over, got dunked on, made a stupid foul, the lead was lost and game was over.
Malik offers nothing to the Spurs. He actually increases the Spurs weakness in the post.
Malik is not an asset. He is a burden both contractually and on the court.
Late.
Moving Rose for a has been like CRobinson makes no sense from a basketball perspective, so it's not worth the time trying to sell it that way. Here's a real concern, you move Rose, are unable to sign Malone, and then your frontcourt depth is 34 year old Horry, 38 year old CRobinson, and 37 year old Mass, with Horry and CRobinson guys whose respective games rely far more on finesse and athleticism than pure muscle.
Personally I think it is worth it for the Spurs to pay the price for having real frontcourt depth long term. The better depth you have the more opportunities for rest for TD there will be. I think having a deep rotation can help to make him much more effective. Look at this season, the Spurs have been routinely dipping into their full frontcourt rotation, Duncan's minutes are down, and yet the Spurs have the best record at this point they've ever had. Also, when Duncan is out due to foul trouble you aren't as screwed as you would normally be.
Plus if you stop trying to move Malik solely because of his contract then you end the primary source of stress between Pop and Rose.
Much like you are a burden in this forum.
You're Right!
Blow me.
Cliff Robinson sucks. No way does Pop make this trade, Marc Stein is full of .
But you just argued that Malik's contract is a "burden"...
I agree with #1 and #3 but not the other reasons. I think Malik and Pop are at odds alot for two other reasons:
1) As Malik spent more and more years with the team eventually landing a big contract, he felt he needed to contribute more to the offense. Malik is a hard worker but he is not talented. He works hard to improve his game but he tries too hard to be a mini-Tim in the post now. He often puts up ill-advised shots when going to the rim and gets stuffed more than any other Spur.
This drives Pop insane and rightly so. Malik strives to be more than just a role player but does not have the talent. Unfortunately, he hasn't accepted his role player status since his new contract and a role player is what we really need him to be.
2) Malik is definitely not clutch and is naturally turnover prone. Again, from a vet player, this drives Pop mad. Malik is headstrong and has barked back at Pop before. Pop and Malik are just not very compatible.
What the would we actually do with Uncle Cliffie?
I admit I haven't seen a lot of him this year, but unless something's changed his job description/capabilities are EXACTLY THE SAME as Robert Horry's.
He's not going to guard the bangers in the paint. And I can't believe that he's quicker than Horry. So defensively it's a wash at best. Maybe still advantage Rob.
He may be a bit more offensively-minded than Horry in stretches, but do we want that? And as for clutch shooting, well, Horry's worst playoff year is still probably better than Robinson's best.
And his 5.1 rebounds/48 min make Horry (8.8/48 min) look like the second coming of Rodman.
The funny thing is, I've also seen Malik put the ball on the floor and make strong moves to the rim resulting in a score, trip to the line for 2, or an and1. You know I'd hate to see the Spurs have a bigman who refuses to go to the rim for fear of getting rejected or being forced into a less than optimal shot.
Oh wait, they already have that guy. Fodder for another thread I suppose.
I haven't really seen any evidence of Malik trying to be a star this season. Save for the one unfortunate play against Sacto Malik's been solid this season. Again.
If you think Malik feels pressure because of the size of his contract, sure, I agree with you. But "why?" is the question. Well it might be due to the fact that the size of that contract has been hung around his neck from day 1 in San Antonio de Bexar, from both within and without the organization. Sure, Malik has an ego. What player at this level doesn't? Even DRob had an ego.
The Spurs have been trying to move him almost from the day they signed him to that deal. Now think about a player, someone who wants to win and actually gives a damn about performing. He takes pride in his play. Now he's told that he's paid too much though he works his ass off. He's told that the team wants to get rid of him for damn near 2 years straight. Don't you think that would grate on a player and make him a little surly?
If Malik Rose is the worst malcontent the Spurs have on this team I'd hate to see the Spurs bring in a true one. Maybe that's why the Spurs are adding more and more international players who seem to have the nice quality of being subervient unquestioning little robots. Must be a control freak's paradise.
Amen. Other than his contract he brings nothing Horry doesn't already provide in a superior manner.
Yeah it was huge....Even DRob had an ego.
Always heard david sayin,
"Admiral needs a point guard. If I was John Stockton, Id be told I was a great team leader railing against cheap ownership. But since Im Admiral, im considered selfish!!"
Remember DRob threatening to sign with the Knicks?
yeah. Like he would've done that.
I can see David playing in New York.
He wasn't goin anywhere.
Well he displayed an ego. Also of note was that Pop/RC/Holt were ready to run him off. Now if the Spurs were willing to run off no less than David Robinson, the elder statesman of the San Antonio Spurs, because of financial reasons why would they not be capable of doing the same for a Malik Rose?
Some of us here have been pointing this out for some time now and yet some of you still refuse to see the writing on the wall. It's always been about the contract. Rose could've been a good little robot like all the foreign guys and the Spurs would still have been shopping him around the league continuously for the last two years.
good little robot like all the foreign guys
Yeah them damn foreigners are the problem.
So if they arent black and they arent american they stink right.
So the team locks up its starting point guard, shooting guard for the long term, but wants to get rid of a bench player to clear payroll thats a bad thing.
Right right. How dare they.
If the Spurs were totally consumed with the bottom dollar they'd be trying to move Rasho first...Rasho's skills are a bit rarer and harder to replace than Malik's though...
So my guess is that they are trying to move Malik first because they have players with a similar skill set coming in...Malone this season, and Scola will be here after that.
Actually they've been trying to move both Rasho and Rose.
Damn this thread is a long read.
I know everyone is expecting me to show up on this one, so here I am.
My thoughts on this are:
* Phoenix and Miami, probably two of our three biggest compe ors (Seattle being the third) have made recent moves to shore up their squads, and obviously our braintrust is not comfortable with where we're at on this.
* The length of Malik's contract is the true problem there, not what he's getting paid. And when you put yourself in team management's shoes, they're not getting a good return on their investment for Rose.
* We've come to expect RC and Pop to be great talent evaluators. Everyone in this thread is talking about Scola being some kind of Horry replacement. I would argue, and so would RC/Pop, that Scola is their Rose replacement.
Rose is hot and cold. That's not going to change. He always has been. LJ hit it on the head that with DRob (and Sean) around to clean up the defensive mess, Rose's mistakes were a lot less noticeable.
We've already seen Luis hang with NBAers on the world stage now (NBA Dream Team in particular) twice, and he's 2-0. Luis has always been talked about as a garbage player, he's just longer than Rose (we're talking 6'10" vs. 6'3").
The other thing that seems lost on folks is the game has changed since Rose was doing his thing. We don't need him to score for one, which for some reason he thinks he needs to do like Tim. But we've already got that from our wings and Tim.
And the other thing, at least is Pop's eye, is what it's always going to come down to for him: defense. Rose used to do an awesome job banging with the big posts like Shaq down low.
Those days are gone, and you need more length on the court. Obviously Pop and RC don't feel they've got enough of it in Rose.
Let's face it, there's a lot we know about Malik's situation, and some behind closed doors that the majority of us don't.
I'm not sure I like the idea of Cliffy in the post-season. But for all my criticism of the staff for their coaching in certain situations, I have to give them credit for their talent evaluation skills, they are second to none on that. And from all appearances it looks like they have Luis pegged as the Rose replacement.
And FWIW, I think we've got our Horry replacement sitting on the IL right now (Linton).
Why not kill two birds with one stone.
Trade em both and the season up.
I mean, I can see why youd want to shake some things up.
39-11 is deplorable.
One has to take a look at the decidedly non-American content of the Spurs' roster, think about Pop's personality, and wonder...
(Notice I originally wrote "foreign" TPark).
Can't argue with too much of that Aggie. Good post.
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