I don't agree that is what McCain was trying to point out here. He was trying to relate Joe the plumber as an average guy making 250k-280k a year that was going to be affected by Obama's plan. When in reality there are very few "average" people that fall in to this category, INCLUDING Joe. So his tactics failed.
I think the biggest misconception here is about how Obama's tax plan would affect the "Joe the Plumber" hypothetical. Someone threw out the number of an additional $7,500 in taxes, but that wasn't true. It's actually less than a dollar of you look at a taxable income of $250,000 like McCain mentioned. At $280,000, the difference was less than $300. No one has really explained how Obama's tax plan is worse for the Joe the Plumber hypothetical.
he said spread the wealth. you're too smart for your own good, peabody.
Well, we are looking at differences of only 3% of $30,000 and other tax changes. The last small business I worked for had about 80 employees and was taxed on millions. A three point increase may not seem bad, but why should they pay more when they are already paying so much? It would have probably added between $200,000 to $300,000 in taxes. That much money does factor into other business decisions.
Bill sold his business. You know why? It was growing faster than he could afford. He needed to borrow money, but didn't have a large enough net income to pay for a large loan. He didn't like the demands by people who could afford to invest. He probably could have afforded a loan if he didn't have to pay so much in taxes. He sold for $34,000,000. Most of that was for the patents rather than physical assets. Not bad, but it would have been nicer if this great company wasn't taken over by a corporation, which didn't manage things worth a . I'm glad I left there. It was a great place to work before it was bought out by the compe ion.
Joe Plumbers in OH avg less that $50K, so they ALL would pay less taxes under HUSSEIN.
Only plumbers who made over $184K would would see a tax increase.
You know, regardless what you liberals think, raising taxes reduces that activity. If you want less small business activity, go ahead. Raise their taxes. Want full employment in the USA, Elimanate taxes on employers. With a shortage of workers, wages will go up. Revenues to the goverment will be greater as the employees pay more taxes, replacing the taxes collected from corporations and businesses.
It just doesn't matter. As a society, we already pay too much in taxes.
Silly lib . What Joe makes, what he pays in taxes, which pant leg he puts on first in the morning... none of it matters.
What matters is that the Messiah admitted to being a socialist.
They should pay more because socialism is what made this country great in the first place
Wait, what's that? It was free markets and Americans producing great products? Well that, that means people have to get off their asses and fend for themselves. The government should do everything for them.
[/Obama].
yeah, who likes roads and junk anyways?
If any of you guys find yourselves in dire straits under Obama socialism I'm happy to send you some canned food, just let me know.
Here's to not aiming high.
That's a good idea. I accidently bought a case of "Low Sodium" soups. YUCK! I'll be glad to get rid on them, along with some other stuff I didn't like.
Joe the Plumber wasn't a plant. He was just another gimmick to be exploited by a desperate, failed campaign. These stunts seem to be the only thing the McCain camp can do and as usual it blows up in their face. In the years to come the McCain/Palin ticket will be the prime example of how NOT to run a presidential campaign.
McNasty's incompetent campaign people come up with another losing tactic!
Joe The Plumber Tanks In Swing States
Campaign aides to John McCain told the New York Times last week that "Joe the Plumber" would form the bedrock of their strategy for the rest of the race:
Mr. McCain's advisers said that in his speeches, television advertisements and mailings, he would seize on a remark Mr. Obama made in an encounter with an Ohio voter, Joe Wurzelbacher, who had pressed him to explain his support for a tax increase for upper-income filers. Mr. Obama responded by saying he wanted to "spread the wealth." Mr. McCain repeatedly invoked that encounter with the man, whom he called "Joe the Plumber," during the debate on Wednesday.Has it worked? Not exactly.
A Suffolk University poll of Ohio and Missouri finds that name recognition of "Joe the Plumber" is very high in both states -- but only a handful of voters said it made them more likely to vote for the Republican candidate.
In Ohio, 68% of respondents had heard the Joe story. Six percent said it made them more likely to vote for McCain; four percent said it made them more likely to vote for Obama.
In Missouri a whopping 80% knew of Joe. Eight percent were more likely to vote McCain as a result; 3 percent more likely to vote Obama.
In both states, vast majorities said the plumber's story did not affect their decision at all.Meanwhile, Obama is leading McCain in Ohio and is nearly tied with him in Missouri. More from the poll:
With just over two weeks left before the presidential election, voters in the key state of Ohio are giving the Democratic ticket of Barack Obama and Joe Biden a 9-point lead (51 percent-42 percent) over the Republican ticket of John McCain and Sarah Palin, according to a poll released today by Suffolk University.
In Missouri, McCain led by 1 percent (45 percent to 44 percent) statewide. He also led the bellwether test of Platte County, Mo.
"If Ohio goes for Obama, it may be lights out for McCain," said David Paleologos, director of the Political Research Center at Suffolk University in Boston. "At least today, the probability of an Ohio win is supported by the high-single-digit lead in the statewide poll coupled with the Perry County bellwether, which showed Obama leading by 4 percent."
In 2008, Suffolk University bellwethers were 95 percent accurate in predicting straight-up winners in both Democratic and Republican primaries, and, when coupled with statewide Suffolk polls, were 100 percent accurate in predicting straight-up winners.
I watched his stump speech this morning and couldn't believe he was still using Joe the plumber and his American dream story. I felt bad for the guy.
How long have you lived on this planet. Dimm-o-craps never, never
cut taxes for anyone. Rest assured that Obama is no different. He
and Pelosi and Reed will find a way into your pocketbook. I
guarantee that.
Joe was on Hannity and Colmes. He did really good, and put Obama in his place.
I'm sure the electorate is changing as we speak.
I like how the election has gone back to the only thing Repubs ever care about. TAXES
It doesn't much matter. Ozombies are going to mindlessly vote for him anyway. Point is, after the anal exam of him by the leftist pudits, trying to discredit the messenger, we say Joe for the real man he is.
Last edited by Wild Cobra; 10-20-2008 at 10:10 PM.
When you have a $10 T national debt and are running deficits of $500 B a year, people just need to accept that taxes are going up, regardless of who wins the Presidency.
You just can't keep up the reckless cut taxes and still spend like crazy strategy we've been using the last 8 years. It makes 0 fiscal sense.
This idea that McCain's going to be able to keep taxes low despite the abundance of red ink on the federal balance sheet with a Democratic Congress is laughable. Even if he does manage to keep them at current levels until the economy resumes on a positive course taxes have to go up to pay for the Hundreds of billions of deficit's we run year after year.
I see little in McCain's platform to suggest that he will cut spending enough to bridge the gap, so the result is higher taxes or simply deferring higher taxes to future years and generations. He won't be the first politician to lie about keeping taxes low. It's an old trick and few follow through on it. We've seen how many times McCain changes his mind on issues in just the past few months of campaigning. I doubt Obama will stay true to the Middle Class tax cut either to be honest.
And when this happens, you won't have either Obama or McCain to blame: It's George Bush's doubling of the national debt in just 8 years, a historic, mind boggling, and embarassing feat. He simply pushed the liabilities into the future, but they are still there and unaccounted for.
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