Are you getting Hollinger on us now ? Busting out stats and numbers ?
Even Ginoboli's stats on that look better than Kobe's.
Didn't Manu have a higher PER than Kobe once ?
How bout this, 10 seconds left, tie game...would you want Kobe or Lebron shooting against your team ? According to the majority of GM's in the league, it's Kobe.
So much for you "clutch" stats.
Thats a pretty good comparison.
And id have to disagree with JamStone saying LeBron is the more naturally talented player. LeBron is definately more physically gifted, in terms of size strength and athelticism, but the overall skill level and the ease and smoothness at which Kobe does some of the things he does, you cant work to get that, and you dont learn that. I think he is definately more naturally talented than LeBron.
I cant split them.
Was Kobe as polished as he is now when he was LeBron's age?
My point the whole time is to ing prove this you faced stupid .
after saying this?
Please tell me you were just joking when posting the latter quote.
You're a ing re . It was after the Lakers game and I quoted myself as in arguing with myself, you ass. I was making a joke. Again, learn to read.
And, nothing that you argued with actually refuted that point, you pussyfaced stain.
The truth is I appreciate Kobe's game very much, in fact love it. Anyone who can make Bowen their even twice is someone who can play basketball. His defense when applied is stellar.
There is no hate for Kobe's game, and his game is the only reason anyone even knows his name. So don't talk out of your ass.
It was hard to tell, considering it came in the midst of about 500 other posters who were jumping all over Lebron for the missed FTs in the game and how Kobe is better, and you seemed like you were one of them.
Maybe if you weren't such a serious head all the time, it wouldn't have been percieved that way.
How exactly are you proving your point?
When Kobe was 24 (Lebron's current age), he had more bounce to his steps (obviously) and was able to do a bit more "tricks" physically. And IMO, a 24 year old Kobe would beat today's Kobe at 1 on 1. So that Kobe would still be on par with today's Lebron. But I'd give Lebron the edge maturity wise/leadership.
Kobe may not jump as high or be as explosive as he was back then, but he's much wiser now at picking his spots for attack points. He reads defenses much better now as well. I don't think Lebron has the amount of knowledge Kobe does of the game (but that'll come with age and experience). Just listen to how Kobe talks about the game, this guy knows his and he's a nerd at studying game films. Kobe's obsession about the game is > than Lebron's obsession of the game. Kobe's work ethic and ability to play through injury/pain > Lebron's. Kobe's a basketball nerd whereas Lebron's more socially skilled, more outspoken, has more natural ability at leading. Kobe has opened up more these last few years though,whereas he used to be a hermit back then.
But a 32-80 year old Kobe would definetly be better than a 32-80 year old Lebron (unless Lebron starts working on other aspects of his game pronto...cuz at this pace, he'll never catch up to Bryant skill wise...it's not even close). Kobe would kill Lebron 1 on 1 if they should play in their 60's. Kobe would still have all his "playground tricks." (Btw, off topic, Kobe would never lose a game of horse to a beach baller (or shoot an air ball in one). Trick shots/trick dribbles are his specialty.
Look at some of Kobe's high school to first few years of nba video clips. Him, AI, White chocolate, are some of the guys that inspired those "And 1" stuff.)
Sure Lebron may be quicker and stronger now and can be a bit more dominant in games than Kobe, but when it's all said and done,
Kobe will still be > than Lebron just as Duncan will be > than Shaq. IMHO.
pussyfaced stain
First clue, while disagreeing with the quote I posted, I QUOTED MY DAM SELF. You have to be a ing fool not to understand that... oh wait. Ok.
Here it is again. You don't have a response, you change topic by trying to flip it. Kobe has more mental toughness because he doesn't let phase him. He doesn't miss key free throws at the ends of games. He isn't hesitant to take a game winning shot. He has more killer instinct because when he sees opponents.
And, it's not only that Kobe is mentally tougher and has more killer instinct. It's that LeBron has been so inconsistent with his. He continues to miss free throws. He still struggles sometimes whether to take over and even allows teammates to try to take over because LeBron sometimes gets hesitant.
Two nights ago was a prime example, where LeBron missed two important free throws with seconds left in the game and Mo Williams being the one taking the big shot to try to get back in the game.
And, the Olympics showed why Kobe is mentally tougher and is more clutch and has more killer instinct. The one close game they played, the gold medal match against Spain, when things got close late in the game and players on Team USA needed someone to take over, it was Kobe. LeBron and Kobe on the same team, and it was Kobe. Kobe was mentally tougher, more clutch, more of a killer. It was him. Not LeBron. And, afterwards when asked about it, Kobe says, "it was fun." Kobe loves the pressure. LeBron is still trying to figure out whether or not he's up to the task. He's been successful before in those situations, but he's not the ice cold killer Kobe is. And, that's the difference.
You talked about LeBron being a better leader. Where was LeBron when Spain made it a--what 2 point--game in that gold medal match? Clearing out of the way for Kobe.
To me, LeBron is a better player. Kobe is the mentally tougher, cold blooded assassin you want to close games.
Your silly points don't prove LeBron is mentally tougher or has more of a killer instinct. They are just slams on Kobe. And, you didn't even address those examples of LeBron not exactly being a leader against Celtics and the Spurs... conveniently.
But, of course, instead of responding on point to real arguments, you just say, "what did you do?" Trying to flip the script. SMH. Sad as .
To me, it seemed like you were waffling on your earlier statement, and many people waffle back and forth between whether they think Kobe or Lebron is better.
I didn't change any ing topic you worthless piece of . You keep on insisting that Kobe was more strong, and I disagreed and posted examples that showed some serious weaknesses in Kobe's mental strengths.
You simply dismissed them, and said "oh thats only a couple examples so they don't count". So I asked for your examples, in which you proceeded to post what you said here, which was no different than what I posted... ONE OR TWO ING EXAMPLES.
Fact is, the times Lebron has ed up, its NEVER been due to a lack of heart, killer instinct, or leadership (which are simply natural things that cannot really be developed) but rather due to undeveloped portions of his game, which can be worked on and developed. Kobe is completely the opposite. His shortcomings have consistently been tied to his mental game, which has massive holes.
Lebron did a of a job against the Celtics. The Celtics CLEARLY were a deeper and more talented team, and he still managed to pretty much singlehandedly push them to the final seconds of a 7 game series. What did Kobe do, with a team that was MUCH more comparable in talent to the Celtics, as opposed to the Cavliers? Blow a 20+ point lead in a pivotal game, and then let his team reciever a 40 point curbstomping in their elimination game.
Despite both of them being defended pretty well, what did they do when their shots weren't falling? Lebron was getting to the line, as evidenced by his 13 FTAs a game, as opposed to Kobe only averaging 8 FTAs a game. Kobe was settling for jumpers, which led massively to blowing that huge lead.
Another thing to consider... when people pick Cleveland to win, is it because of their team, or because of the fact that they have Lebron James? Because of Lebron, every ing time.
On the other hand, why are people picking Los Angeles to win? Because of Kobe, or because they appear to have one of the most complete teams in the league? Because they have a damn good and loaded team. Kobe really has absolutely no reason to not win a le this year, barring injuries. If this team stays healthy, and they do not win the le, I don't think there should be any question ever again about who is better between him and Kobe, ESPECIALLY in the mental department.
And the spurs crap is ridiculous. The spurs were simply a better team... MUCH better. ing ridiculous to even try to use that as an example. The cavs never had an upper hand or anything positive going for them for that series. Lebron did what he could do, in trying to keep the games as close as possible. His team simply sucked too much. And there has NEVER been a single playoff series in which the team Lebron faced, simply had less all around talent. His teams have ALWAYS been outmatched in terms of talent, but he still combats that and finds ways to beat teams like Washington, New Jersey, and Detroit. Lebron has done a damn good job of trying to get the best out of his team and finding ways to give his team the best chance to win every game. Better than any player in the NBA right now, by far.
Actually the Cavs are a very good defensive team. It's what makes them so good in the playoffs IMHO. It's why they pushed the Celtics to 7 games.....well that an Ray Allen going 0-90 from 3pt land
I agree they are a good defensive team, but a lot of it also is because of the pace at which they play. Lebron drawing fouls and getting to the line as frequently as he does helps with the pace factor quite a bit.Actually the Cavs are a very good defensive team. It's what makes them so good in the playoffs IMHO. It's why they pushed the Celtics to 7 games.....well that an Ray Allen going 0-90 from 3pt land
Lebron isn't at Kobe's level in some very key areas of the game:
Jumpshooting
Free throws
Post up play
If he truly desires to be GOAT he needs to dedicate himself to the game like Kobe and MJ do/did. Clearly he did not do that this summer.
I agree completely with that.
Well, since we are on the topic of "Let's make an assessment of a player one or two games into the season"...
Since Kobe is only averaging 19 ppg, he clearly is on the decline of his career and has lost his scoring touch, while Danny Granger and Tim Duncan will battle it out for the scoring championship.
Enough with the knee-jerk reactions and complete assessments after one ing game.
Underdeveloped parts of LeBron's game? Making a free throw? Not demanding the ball in a clutch situation? Passing up an open lay up attempt to kick it out to a three pointer? Those aren't underdeveloped parts of LeBron's game. That's lack of a killer instinct. Missing clutch free throws isn't an underdeveloped part of his game. It's not being mentally tough enough. It's not fatigue. It's not lack of practice. Clutch free throws is about mental focus, mental toughness.
Taking over in that close gold medal match is about being a killer, an assassin, a closer. Kobe is more of one than LeBron. I didn't say LeBron isn't a closer at all. I didn't say LeBron had no mental toughness at all. I said Kobe has more.
It's not about failing in clutch situations. All players fail sometimes. LeBron has failed in the clutch. Kobe has failed in the clutch. The difference is that Kobe isn't afraid to fail and won't question himself. LeBron is not that way. He questions himself sometimes, not only at the foul line, but in decision making whether to pass, drive, or shoot.
You act as if pushing the Celtics to 7 games early in the playoffs is that much better than making it to the NBA Finals and going 6 games. Horse . And, LeBron still ed up in games 1 and 2 and at the end of game 7. You talk as if it was all on Kobe that the Lakers lost that 20 point lead against the Celtics, but when I give you a specific example of where LeBron does something similar where it's really on him as the leader of the Cavs in game 5 against Boston, nothing. That 43-20 run the Celtics had in game 5 against the Cavs in about a 16 minute span, LeBron went to the free throw line zero times, took 3 three point shots, went 1-for-6 from the field, including getting his blocked once. your "LeBron is a better leader" argument. That game 5 was there to be had for the Cavs. Where the was LeBron when the Celtics turned a 14 point deficit into a 9 point lead? Where was LeBron's leadership there? You ing assclown. Same you rag on Kobe for, and you tuck tail and run behind your stupid ing insults. You're a moron.
And, why is the Spurs example ridiculous when my main example was game 4 where the Spurs won by one single ing point and LeBron missed four free throws. The Spurs weren't "that" much better in that particular game if they only won by one point. One point. Four missed free throws. Spurs can't guard LeBron at the free throw line. That's absolutely on point with the discussion about being mentally tough and having a killer instinct.
Go a fire hydrant, stretch. You're a re ed stain on LeBron's game underwear.
I had a nice long reply to your whole post, but figured I would save myself some time with this...
Since 2005-2006 season (the season both kobe and lebron started leading their teams into the playoffs), here are their playoff records:
Lebron: 24-20
Kobe: 14-15
Lebron > Kobe when it counts.
Die.
Still don't know how to ing follow an argument.
Wins are team accomplishments.
We've been talking about mental toughness and killer instinct.
I could go into that stupid ing stat and say put the Cavaliers in the Western Conference and the Lakers in the Eastern Conference, and LeBron might not even have any playoff appearances.
You don't know how to follow an argument, support an argument, or refute an argument.
Plain as day, you are a moronic imbecile. Yes, it needs to be doubly stated.
Since 2005-06, when it counts, LeBron has zero championships and Kobe has zero championships.
You don't evaluate mental toughness and killer instinct by team wins or team championships. It's the individual play. We're comparing individual players.
How much of a ing re are you?
Get your ing G.E.D. already.
Lebron: 24-20
Kobe: 14-15
Lebron > Kobe when it counts.
You're the who blames LeBron's teammates for losing to the Spurs and Celtics.
Now, you give all the credit to LeBron for his wins.
You're a joke.
Kobe and LeBron on the same team, Kobe the closer.
Kobe 3 les
LeBron 0 les
Kobe 1 League MVP
LeBron 0 League MVPs
Again, study up.
lol, riled up
stretch and the hater are biggest idiots in this thread.
they're like george bush and sarah palin.
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