Charging an 8 year old as an adult?

[MannyIsGod]

Deviant sexual behavior in another one of implacable's posts.

[implacable44]

There is a large segment of our population who don't want to think of criminals as normal people with problems. They would much rather think of them as lacking morality or simply as evil because it is a way to elevate themselves to a higher plane of humanity. Its so evident whenever you bring about the any thread regarding the punishment of criminals whether it be this, capital punishment, or prison reform.

As far as I know there is no scientific proof for a case to be made on that front. While I've never been one to delve too deeply into human behavioral studies nothing that I've ever read points in that direction so if implacable has anything in that regard I'm open to it but I'm not going to hold my breath.

how large is this segment ? How did you determine their beliefs and feelings on the issue ? " A way to elevate themselves to a higher plane of humanity " ? WTH???

How could there be scientific proof to support a claim of someone being "evil" or "lacking morality" ? How could you prove evil with science ? This all boils down -- as do most moral (or whatever word you choose to use) issues - values etc... all boils down to faith. Those darn christians or muslims - those "fools" that believe in Diety.. and those that don't.

[implacable44]

Deviant sexual behavior in another one of implacable's posts.

oh well we can eliminate that part of the equation - lets say your gay son gets the snot beat out of him and is left for dead. -- no sex.

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

Deviant sexual behavior in another one of implacable's posts.

He doth protest too much, doesn't he? I'm starting to understand why he's so obsessed with my forum sig.

[implacable44]

He doth protest too much, doesn't he? I'm starting to understand why he's so obsessed with my forum sig.

I didn't protest anything. I gave a scenario -- would you prefer I advocate it ?

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

For example -- lets say you have a daughter and she is violently raped, beaten and left for dead... what would your thoughts be then ? Would you be concerned with the past of the offender and how mommy didn't hug him enough ? or how he got picked last for kickball ?

Do you understand why Lady Justice is blindfolded?

[MannyIsGod]

Its just funny how a reoccurring theme seems to find its way into a large number of your posts. But don't worry, I'm sure its not Freudian or anything.

[kwhitegocubs]

Yes, I am of the same basic spirit as Baron d'Holbach when it comes to free will. A hard determinist.

Of course I would feel outrage, and no, I would not be concerned with their past. Not because I wouldn't sympathize or research it in order to prevent its reoccurence, but simply because (in the absence of time travel) it is not germaine to the issue at hand.

Yes, if he can be rehabilitated, I would want him back out and functioning as a useful, productive member of society. No, of course there is never any assurance that ANY person (criminal history or not) will be peaceable. This person would be no different.

I also know that there are limits to the human capacity to predict or determine someone's likelihood of committing future crimes, and I respect that. I am willing to give broader la ude to authorities for the purpose of protecting the public good when there is a very high likelihood that someone will threaten person(s)' lives and livelihoods. However, I simply think that we need to focus more resources and time on determining more accurately those risks instead of on prisons.

Also, you seem unable to divorce my belief in determinism from my equally strong belief that my ability to comprehend the chain of events is as limited (or nearly as limited) as any other person. Thus comprehension and observation, or the capacity for such, is not a subs ute for the actual knowledge to be gleaned from said actions.

The last problem that you seem to have is that you make everything personal and emotional, despite framing those emotions in an objective s . It can't work that way.

[MannyIsGod]

how large is this segment ? How did you determine their beliefs and feelings on the issue ? " A way to elevate themselves to a higher plane of humanity " ? WTH???

How could there be scientific proof to support a claim of someone being "evil" or "lacking morality" ? How could you prove evil with science ? This all boils down -- as do most moral (or whatever word you choose to use) issues - values etc... all boils down to faith. Those darn christians or muslims - those "fools" that believe in Diety.. and those that don't.

Its about separating society into different strata with you above the criminals of our society thinking that you are better than them. Thats the root of the rejection of any notion that a persons cir stances may lead to an effect - however large or small - on their actions. That if a man were noble or good he would not commit certain criminal acts no matter what the cir stances.

And of course this all boils down to faith and in turn why there are so many problems with our current criminal justice system because it contains its roots in a morality that doesn't make much sense when you take a look at it form a human behavioral standpoint.

[implacable44]

No I don't take it personal and I have no emotion involved as I do not know you - nor do I have any concern for you. I understand your belief structure and what makes you tick - what you accept as reality. I disagree. People do bad things and it is their choice to do them. People do good things and it is their choice. Personal accountability and free will exist in my reality. You make choices everyday - regardless of your past or present. To me there is a God who wants you to make good choices and do good things in life and to me there is a devil who is constantly tempting you to fall and make bad choices. That is my reality. Who can say which one is right ? Perhaps when I die - I will cease to exist - there will be nothing but the circle of life and my "meat" will serve as food for other organizms -- or perhaps I will go to Heaven and God will tell me that the 7th day Adventists were right - or the Catholics or maybe even the Mormons. The thing is -- One has to decide what to believe in and live their life according to that belief. But this arguement of faith vs. secular progressive is not winnable. All the science in the world will not disprove the existence of Diety and all the faith in the world will not prove the existence of Diety.

[implacable44]

Do you understand why Lady Justice is blindfolded?

ha ha -- do you ? and perhaps they should change lady justice just a little bit to fit in better with the current state of our legal system -- and put money on one of the scales.

[implacable44]

Its about separating society into different strata with you above the criminals of our society thinking that you are better than them. Thats the root of the rejection of any notion that a persons cir stances may lead to an effect - however large or small - on their actions. That if a man were noble or good he would not commit certain criminal acts no matter what the cir stances.

And of course this all boils down to faith and in turn why there are so many problems with our current criminal justice system because it contains its roots in a morality that doesn't make much sense when you take a look at it form a human behavioral standpoint.

so are you guilty of this behavior Manny or is it just "other" people ?

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

No I don't take it personal and I have no emotion involved

I read that crap you just wrote and I wanted to hurt you

And the hits just keep on comin'

[MannyIsGod]

Just be happy he's gone 3 posts without bringing up bestiality.

[implacable44]

And the hits just keep on comin'

that was symbolic. Be real and maintain a little intellectual honesty.

[implacable44]

Just be happy he's gone 3 posts without bringing up bestiality.

waiting.....and I gave up discussing your sex life

[MannyIsGod]

Now that ironic.

[MannyIsGod]

What exactly are you waiting for?

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

that was symbolic. Be real and maintain a little intellectual honesty.

You symbolically wanted to hurt someone based on words on a message board? How...zen.

[implacable44]

I don't want to hurt anyone - keep it in context.

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

I don't want to hurt anyone - keep it in context.

Your context was that you wanted to hurt someone, but your ability to know right from wrong kept you from doing so. If you didn't really want to hurt someone, then your example was invalid. So which is it?

[I. Hustle]

I want to hurt you both.

[MaryAnnKilledGinger]

I want to hurt you both.

But your sense of right and wrong is keeping you from it, right?

[I. Hustle]

But your sense of right and wrong is keeping you from it, right?

No. My distance from the both of you and not knowing who you are is.

[implacable44]

Your context was that you wanted to hurt someone, but your ability to know right from wrong kept you from doing so. If you didn't really want to hurt someone, then your example was invalid. So which is it?

see prior answer. sorry you can't grasp the hypothetical example.