Where is tonights Nazr>Wilt thread?

[Mark in Austin]

a big lameass injury excuse

Injuries aren't a positive...I hold Nazr accountable for those losses because Malik wasn't injured and could have played. I also hold the Spurs accountable to trading for an injured player...and if we end up losing HCA and a le...there won't be anything to debate on whether or not the trade hurt us this season.

When did I ever use the phrase A big, lameass injury excuse, and in whattt context?

[whottt]

Whotttt is going a little overboard now. I'm going to have to step away from my support of his cause.

Overboard in what way? Explain.

As for you stepping away...you usually do

Hmmm....maybe the best way for me to get you to realize how over-rated AJ was is to beome an AJ fan

What is also bothersome is that I told Whottt that if the Spurs re-signed Robert Horry this summer, that would mean that Rose was going to be traded or sent to the dog house. Whottt told me I was crazy and that Horry and Rose could work together. It came down to Horry vs. Rose for the Spurs and at the last second (after not contacting him or his agent all summer), the Spurs decided to go with Horry.

Only time will tell if they made the right choice.

You never told me that...although I do admit to sending you a PM, after the trade, saying I finally figured out why you didn't like Horry, when I never could before....

As for their ability to play together...We were off to the best start in team history when they were both getting PT.

Just because Pop couldn't handle the talent doesn't mean they couldn't play well together...Again, we got off to the best start in team history.

FWIW...Horry was the best choice to come off the bench on most nights, he probably couldn't put up Malik's raw numbers, but he's just about the smartest player in the NBA and it shows when he is on the court.

[whottt]

That's not what you wrote. If you weren't an idiot, you'd know that.

Actually idiot, I wrote this:

Anyone with a brain can see Mohammed's oboards and putbacks are going to be great for this team, and his size may help intimidate inside scorers....

And this:

We have needed a garbage man alongside for years...even while Drob was still on the team we started having this need..and this guy is going to be awesome in that role...

And this:

I am the guy that posted all those guys saying he was going to be a great o rebounder and garbage man, I was also very excited by those comments.

I've said it ad nauseum...Now just because your brain takes smart things and turns them stupid is no reason to go around attributing them to me...I know, I know...the dense fog that prevents you from acknowledging what has happened in previous years and previous games also s you up when it comes to remembering posts from earlier in this thread. Again, your problem, not mine.

He could've been, Nazr can be.as are you when you guess Malik is automatically the better choice.Guessing.

Not guessing...We have two les with Malik...We know we can win a le with him as the main back up big...we don't know it can happen with Mohammed.

It is speculation.

Malik even admits he did nothing against Shaq one year and that's all you've really tried hanging your hat on. We traded one might for another.

No, I am hanging my hat on 8 years of experience and two les with this ing team. That's what I am hanging my hat on.

And it's substantially more than anything you are hanging yours on.

[whottt]

As are you when you postulate that Malik's rebounding numbers will go up and Nazr's will go down:

Sure...I am speculating...on who is going to be have an improvement in rebounding...

The Spurs gambled on a le run...One is a meaningless gamble done by a guy on a message board and the other one is substantially greater.

BTW, the reason I think Nazr's rebounding numbers will go down on this team...

His strength is offensive rebounding...The Spurs shoot at one of the highest PCT's in the NBA...that means fewer offensive rebounding opportunities. I don't think it's a huge diss of Nazr to make that claim.

He got many of his points from cleaning up after the 390% FG% of Crawford and the 410% FG% of Marbury...

Our guards are shooting near 50%. Doesn't take a genius to figure out Nazr will have fewer Oboard opportunities...and that's without taking into account that there's a guy named Tim Duncan on this team that does a pretty good job of the O glass.

Speculation yes, which is why I said "I think"...but speculation with merit.

[ChumpDumper]

You wrote this:

I expect Malik's rebound totals to go up and Nazr's to decline.

I merely showed how that hasn't been the case so far. Want to take it back?

We know we can win a le with him as the main back up big.

And we know we cen get damn near swept doing the same. And no DRob now, who was the main reason Malik even had a chance against a guy like Shaq. Speculation.

[whottt]

If you're "[holding] Nazr accountable for those losses," you can only be talking about 1 loss where Nazr didn't play because of injury -- the Phoenix loss, in which, as you know, neither of the Spurs two all-stars played. The only other loss since Nazr has actually suited up was the Denver game, in which Nazr actually played.

No, I hold Nazr accountable for any game he didn't play in that Malik could have.

It's pure conjecture on your part that a healthy Malik Rose would have somehow changed the outcome of that single game and altered the race for HCA. Prove your premise somehow (with something other than your own speculation) and I'll begin to buy your argument. Until then, you're just guessing.

Ok...go take a look at the numbers Malik has put up against Phoenix...

Come on, whottt -- you can't blast someone's conjecture and then turn to your own guesses to explain why they're wrong.

I can say that breaking in a new guy in place of an 8 year team veteran who has won two les on this team can slow the momentum of a team and hurt it's performance...I don't think it's a huge reach to make that claim...I think it's common sense. And then there's the chemistry issue...

And I can find lots of quotes by Spurs players and Pop saying it affected their chemistry.

The only reason you don't agree with that is if you simply don't like Malik's game or don't appreciate anything he brought to the team.

[whottt]

You wrote this:I merely showed how that hasn't been the case so far.

I do expect Nazr's totals to go down and Malik's to go up...I am well aware of the current status, since it existed before I made that claim and I don't wish to change that claim. It's my claim and I will take ownership of it...this is not the stupid minutes thing...This is my claim. And as we speak it's only partially wrong...Nazr's totals are substantially lower...Malik's are only slightly lower. It's really not a diss on Nazr or an attempt to overhype Malik...but I can see why the mentally deficient such as yourself would get confused.

And we know we cen get damn near swept doing the same.

Actually, we know we can get swept with him as the main back up big(see 2001) but that's kind of an ignorant point...we also know we can get swept with Tim Duncan.

The fact remains...Malik 2 rings, one playing a huge role, Nazr 0 rings.

We know we can win with Malik...it is speculation to say we can with Nazr. And no matter how stupid you are...that fact will not change.

And no DRob now, who was the main reason Malik even had a chance against a guy like Shaq. Speculation.

See the 2002 playoffs when DRob could barely walk and Malik pulled the most minutes against Shaq. Shaq was held to his playoff lows and we had a better showing against LA than we did in 2001.

I don't know why the you guys are trying to make this point...Malik defends Shaq better than Rasho or Horry. I am sorry if you weren't a Spurfan prior to last year...anyone who was would know I speak the truth.

[ChumpDumper]

This is my claim. And as we speak it's only partially wrong...Nazr's totals are substantially lower...Malik's are only slightly lower.

No, Malik's are substantially lower. How is getting 1.2 rebounds per game less in the same amount of time "slightly" lower? No I expect you to follow through with your pussy definition of totals and your new math on how a dropoff of over 25% per game is "slight."

You will not disappoint.

Nazr's rebounding rate is up slightly. Malik's is down 25%. Which really tells you what is happening?

[ChumpDumper]

See the 2002....

See three years ago?

30 pounds ago?

Malik defends Shaq better than Rasho or Horry.

Only if he can. I don't know why the you are trying to make the point that it's a stone lock that he did it every time.

[whottt]

Thank you for reminding us all that Duncan is not a Knick. What does that have to do with anything? You say the Knicks are playing better with Rose that the Spurs are with Nazr, therefore Malik > Nazr.

The Knicks have shown tremendous improvement since Malik joined their team...the Spurs have taken a step backwards...

First, that is a silly comparison to make. New York's starting unit has remained relatively intact otherwise, whereas the Spurs three best players have all missed games since the trade. Aside from Malik and Nazr being variables, both teams would have to stay the same as they were before the trade for your assertion to be valid.

Um...ok...look at it this way then...The Knicks are 4-3 since Malik joined their team...what were they with Mohammed?

Other key Spurs have missed time, therfore, the Spurs record is not solely attributable to Nazr's performances. (And the Knick's record is not solely as a result of Malik for that matter. The Knicks did make other trades that day.) Your reasoning just doesn't add up when you look at all of the data, not just the data convenient to your argument.

Yeah...the Knicks did make other trades...I belive most of the posters arguing with me now were talking about what an idiot Isiah was and how those trades wouldn improve that team...

I don't see anyone arguing that any more.

As far as the supposed fact that the Knicks are somehow outperforming the Spurs since the trade:

New York is 4-3 since the trade in games that Malik has played in. San Antonio is 4-1 in games which Mohammed played, despite the fact that injuries have slowed their ability to get court time together and gel as a unit.

The fact we can even legitmately compare the recent records of the Knicks and Spurs without laughing hysterically should give you plenty reason to question this trade...I am not trying to claim the Knicks are a better team.

Perhaps because San Antonio's offensive and defensive schemes are much more complicated than New York's, and there is a steeper learning curve with the Spurs, especially on defense. If you can't play the defense, you don't get many minutes here. Malik has benefitted from playing Spurs defense for years, and that defensive focus gets you minutes. And it has, to an extent, rubbed off on some of the other Knicks.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

Malil has helped the Knicks more than Mohammed has helped the Spurs.

I realize the Spurs don't have much room for improvment...but why did the Knicks suck so bad with Mohammed the great?

Also, and more obviously, Nazr was injured or recovering from injury for many of the games since the trade. Of course he played less minutes. This isn't some secret - the Spurs acknowledged that they would bring him along slowly to minimize the risk of re-aggravating it. AND despite their caution, that's what wound up happening.

And it eroded our bench depth....no matter how you look at it, that trade encouraged our recent spate of losses...it certainly wasn't a deterrent.

[whottt]

See three years ago?

30 pounds ago?

Malik had already dropped most of that weight the last time we won a le.

Only if he can. I don't know why the you are trying to make the point that it's a stone lock that he did it every time.

Shaq never shot 66% against us for a playoff series when Malik was part of the rotation...whether Drob could walk or not.

So either you need to come clean and admit Malik was not total dog ...or we need to go and sign Mark Bryant post ing haste.

[ChumpDumper]

Link?

you, you lying piece of . You always do this. Get owned on something like saying Malik's rebounding is up and then resort to lying. Show me the ing link you idiot. Give me the quote and the link right now.

[whottt]

Link to what leadhead?

And I really get sick of being called a liar by you, mainly becuase I'm not one. It's pretty much your usual bailout when you are getting your own words shoved up your ass.

Like I said...it's not my fault you are stupid.

[ducks]

.the Spurs have taken a step backwards...

HOW?
they have lost some games since the trade but that usually happens when 2 of your big 3 are out games
and of those 3 is a mvp canidate every year

[ChumpDumper]

You have officially been called out. If you don't get that, just consider yourself owned and be done with it. Show me my own words. You just had Malik's improved rebounding shoved up your ass. your lying self.

[whottt]

Um stupid...if you will reread the thread you will see that I said I expect to see Malik's rebounding totals go up and Nazr's go down, I said this last night or today......the introduction of "rate" was all your own...

This is a classic case of you interpreting and attributing...

As I said earlier...it wasn't a diss of Nazr or hyping of Malik...it has everything to do with the situations of those teams....it's simply what I think will happen.

So no, you. Either repond to my actual statments or get ed...stop attributing things to me and expecting me to defend it you dumb ing .

[ChumpDumper]

Malik's are only slightly lower.

Owned.

[ChumpDumper]

Now produce my "Malik was total dog " quote.

When you can't, apologize.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So, the Spurs, with some combination of Tim, Manu, and Tony sitting out for a good five games now, have taken a step back while the healthy Knicks have progressed?

I most definitely have a leg to stand on...

First of all...whose team is doing better since the trade? A lottery team traded "the greatest Center in history" and is now playing their best basketball of the season...While the Spurs have been dropping home games to 8 seeds.

Tell you what Whott. You take the Knicks and Rose, I'll take the Spurs and Nazr, let's talk in June.

Have a nice day.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

By the way, in 16 minutes tonight for NY, Malik had 4 points and 2 rebounds.

Nazr's got 4 and 3 in half the minutes so far.

Next.

[whottt]

.the Spurs have taken a step backwards...

HOW?
they have lost some games since the trade but that usually happens when 2 of your big 3 are out games
and of those 3 is a mvp canidate every year

Duncan and Parker were injured at the beinning of last season for mulitple games...what was our record then?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Was that Ginobili fella playing then? Oh yeah, he was. STFU.

[ducks]

I do not rember what the record was
but nazr could step up without duncan and parker
especially if he played against the likes of duncan and david for 6 years first
going against the best makes you improve in practice
rasho went off when duncan was hurt before
it was a TOTAL team effort not just rose

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

whott,

Did your dad ever give you the advice "quit while you're behind"?

This is one of those times, you need to quit.

[whottt]

Now produce my "Malik was total dog " quote.

When you can't, apologize.

Where did I say you said "Malik was total dog "?

Produce that link and then when you realize you can't shut the up about calling me a liar.