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yeah I've said so in this thread
Are you a christian
yeah I've said so in this thread
Things aren't black and white.
What wager? We already broke the torture cherry. I'm sure if we are ever attacked again, you will ignore all other possible explainations and assume it must have been because Obama didn't let Jack Bauer shove a knife in some guy's kneecap, but are you really so naive as to think the re-affirmation of the illegality of torture would stop some CIA, FBI, or even Joe Blow down the street from going ape on a terror suspect if there really was a ticking time-bomb scenario? You don't think they wouldn't "take one for the team" if they really thought the "24" universe had collided with our own and we really were "out of time!"?
Why is it so important to you that we codify torture?
If we don't even have the collective for ude to punish a bunch of nitwits who insisted on ordering the CIA to waterboard some guy (who already gave up the goods to the FBI in a regular interrogation) 83 times i one month because they pissed their pants over every daily security breifing and were desperate for ANY intel they could get, whether it was legit or not (and it wasn't), what makes you think the United States would want to prosecute your lone wolf CIA agent who saved Washington D.C. from a nuke?
Last edited by PixelPusher; 05-04-2009 at 10:28 PM.
Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.
Well in that case....what I see was Christ wasn't teaching or trying to uphold a set of ethics, he was trying to get people to raise their levels of spiritual awareness, and abilities.Much like Buddah.
Since when does the social contract extend to those trying to destroy the society.
chicken .
Thanks for reaffirming my point about ideals being nothing more than empty plat udes for bumper-sticker patriots.
I don't want to sit here and argue the Bible, but basically everything in there says otherwise. You are free to believe however you want, but I still think its outrageous that a majority of Christians support torture. I also think its interesting how the right argues for absolutes regarding gay marriage, abortion, etc., but then suddenly when torture is introduced, its relativism all day long.
Tell me something hopes4dopes...do you believe that America the "Greatest Nation on Earth, and the Greatest Nation that ever existed"? If so, what makes us so great, so exceptional? Aircraft carriers? ICBMs?
Clearly you don't think it's has anything to do with "American Ideals" regarding liberty and democracy.
You wouldn't answer ing's question you won't answer mine go count angels on the head of your pin.
It is the flower of westeren thought.
Ing's question is bull . As to your question regarding whether we should extend justice and human rights to those outside of the American tribe, I'll go with what Newt Gingrich said in 1997:
I still believe it if even if Newt has to backtrack and qualify to keep his footing in a political party that is beginning to make acceptance of torture the new litmus test for GOP purity."As I said in China this spring, there is no place for abuse in what must be considered the family of man. There is no place for torture and arbitrary detention. There is no place for forced confessions. There is no place for intolerance of dissent." "While we walked through the Rotunda. I explained to President Jiang how the roots of American rule of law go back more than 700 years, to the signing of the Magna Carta. The foundation of American values, therefore, is not a passing priority or a temporary trend.
Huzzah! Another rally cry for tribe!
Care to expand on that, or are you just going to leave it as, as Ing put it, an empty plat ude?
I don't think Christ gave anybody the idea he came to end war,or physical death, or suffering, like buddah said suffering is the nature of reality.But do you think that the spiritual evolution of Man would have gone up or down if hitler wasn't stopped.If human slavery wasn't stopped would the nations evolution gone up or down.If totalitarian regimes control do peoples evolution go up. War is one of the four horsemen it is something other than gay marriage,or abortion,something like a hurricane, but I'm not sure humanity has evolved to the point where it can give war up.
Do you live with the illusion your beyond the "tribe"
lol, how comical...like some mafia goon who believes ratting out to the Feds is the worst possible thing you could do, worse even than fraud, extortion and murder.
Tribe uber alles is your bag, not mine. I don't subsume my moral iden y to some gang affiliation.
So how bout that whole "Flower or western thought" trope?
No, you're such a product of the tribe, like ing was saying you have no face no voice you don't stand out or alone.This riciulous radical chic costume was embarresing 20 years ago.I don't know anybody outside a cartoon that even has a "moral iden y"
I never said that. You were arguing that Christ wasn't trying to impose ethics or morals on the population.
I'm not even talking about war, but torture. Once you remove someone from the battlefield, they are no longer "at war". Interrogators can't hide behind the "anything is justified during war time" defense when the prisoner is handcuffed in a cell. And let's not forget we hanged some Japanese for waterboarding during WW2 and how many slaves were tortured in our country's history.
I agree. micca is trying to trot out the JC as a sort of second Moses, in the vein of Exodus 32.
And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.
More projection, more disbelief that anyone could possibly see the world any differently than your carefully constructed political cliches.
Yes, everyone is a product of the tribe they were born to, but if that were the end-all, be-all of what determines someone's moral, ethical and political values, how is that someone who grew up in a Christan, conservative Republican family didn't end up going to church, stroking his chin over a copy of the National Review and voting Republican?
Wash the sand out of your vagina and nut up. Uphold your own frigging life. The state doesn't owe you a living and it's not your friend. If security is your pearl of great price, you're a ing pussy. Real men love and promote liberty and human dignity, not petty revenge.
Rolled up in one big nasty ball the islamofascists couldn't beat us in 1000 years. That you take them so seriously underscores your lack of confidence in this country and its ideals. you, Iggy.
Well first I'm not in the mood for arguing if that's what your into tonight I think Pixie might be agreeable.
You know back in the 70's I was in Ireland,back then there were tanks in the streets of belfast I think bobby sands was on hunger strike in Long Kesh prison, razor wire, and english soldiers with machine guns patrolling the streets.I was hitching through the south of Ireland in the republic, and talked to people about the situation, and I was really surprised to find that many irishmen despised the IRA, they despised their targeting of innocence, they despised their bullying of thugs with guns which is what terrorists desend to.I was surprised because I had family from Ireland and I knew in what High regard The IRA had been held and what it desended to when it started targeting civilians, later I was to make friends with a family from afganistan and heard stories of the Taliban.Terrorists are not soldiers.I guess I learned that from Irishmen and the IRA.
no not everybody....you are though.
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