Pau Gasol or Dirk Nowitzki, Who do you think is better?

[21_Blessings]

Stop making stuff up. Notice the bold: You're just going off box scores and didn't watch the series if you think the Warriors played him straight up.

No I'm not going off box scores. I watched that series and Jackson shut him down 1v1 most of the time. I've seen Lamar Odom do similar things to Dirk at times. Yes when Dirk gets hot he makes just about everything. But that series was a prime example of Dirk's weakness. No post game, no penetration or real playmaking ability. Nelly played him straight up with a long athletic guy while defending the 3 point line. Dirk was forced to take tough contested shots or try and playmake the entire series. Which is why Dallas failed miserably.

That's like me saying Kobe choked against Boston when everybody knows Lamar and Pau peed their pants at the sight of Celtic green.

You're comparing one of the greatest defenses ever (Boston 08) to a Don Nelson coached Warriors team Take it easy on all that gobbling Fin, you're losing brain cells.

Pau is very very good. Dirk is great. That's the difference.

The entire point. If Dirk was "great" he would have won a couple by now. In reality Dirk is a very good, albeit one dimensional player that gets overratted constantly. Like winning a undeserved MVP and then ting the bed in the 1st round against the 8 seed.

When has Dirk played with a "stacked" roster? Are you saying Josh/Jet are as good as Pau/Lamar? Pierce/Allen? Shaq? If so, nothing more needs be said.

Finley/Nash/Dirk isn't stacked? It was. Jason Kidd/Terry/Howard is a stacked a team and we can even throw in Marion now. So was Harris/Jet/Howard with Stackhouse off the bench. Much better than anything Pau Gasol ever played with pre-Lakers.

[polysylab1k]

Jackson shut him down in the playoffs. With rarely any double teams and one of the worst defenses in the NBA. Dirk's legacy ladies and gentlemen.

If you had taken a look at Dirk's stats in that series they you would have probably noticed Dirk wasn't playing very bad, actually it was the biased officiating that upheld the Warriors to the second round.

They beat nobody impressive in 2003. Yes winning 60 games with a stacked team and then getting sent home is nothing.

Homers only consider their own team impressive while considering any other team unimpressive, but the 03 champions were NOT the Lakers if my memory serves me well.

Coming close you mean choking away 2-0 lead with home court then yeah. Either way, Dirk doesn't have a ring.

Pau Gasol has a ring while Robert Horry has seven, even Breath has 3. And we can still remember how histeriously Kobe was ing after his team got wiped out 3-4 by Suns in 07 from a 3-1 lead.

Dirk is only very slightly better than Gasol. Dirk has proven he can't win even when he has a stacked team. Pau has proven he can't win with a team full of old role players. Basically in the same class as a player since both need a dominant superstar next to them in order to win. Only difference is, Pau will retire a European and multiple NBA champion.

A team containing Shane Battier, Bonzi Wells, Mike Miller is full of old role players? Battier was drafted in 2001 and was still in his early 20s at that time, while Bonzi Wells and Miller were also both on the right side of 30. Actually that Grizzlies team was more stacked than the Mavs have ever been since franchise being founded.

European champions and glories don't count at all, unless you admit you're the same idiotic as KBP. The Spain basketball team is just too great to beat, but Pau Gasol is definitely not the only reason why that team is great.

[21_Blessings]

Welp time to get plastered. It's ok Mav fan, keep those 1st round victory hopes alive!

[Findog]

No I'm not going off box scores. I watched that series and Jackson shut him down 1v1 most of the time. I've seen Lamar Odom do similar things to Dirk at times. Yes when Dirk gets hot he makes just about everything. But that series was a prime example of Dirk's weakness. No post game, no penetration or real playmaking ability. Nelly played him straight up with a long athletic guy while defending the 3 point line. Dirk was forced to take tough contested shots or try and playmake the entire series. Which is why Dallas failed miserably.

He was hurt and still put up 19/10. The 38% shooting is what killed Dallas. That team was constructed in such a way that Dirk had to put up 25/12 on 50% shooting for his team to win. Nobody on Dallas had a good series against GS. He had absolutely no help in that series whatsoever. I'm not saying he played well, he did what he could while hobbled.

You're comparing one of the greatest defenses ever (Boston 08) to a Don Nelson coached Warriors team Take it easy on all that gobbling Fin, you're losing brain cells.

I didn't compare the 08 Celtics to the 07 Warriors. Read that passage again. I said you fundamentally misunderstand how the Warriors won that series and used a hypothetical example of criticizing Kobe for the 08 Finals when everybody knows the Celtics focused their D on him and his teammates couldn't step up.

The entire point. If Dirk was "great" he would have won a couple by now. In reality Dirk is a very good, albeit one dimensional player that gets overratted constantly. Like winning a undeserved MVP and then ting the bed in the 1st round against the 8 seed.

Dirk's a great player, and you're saying he's not because he hasn't won a ring as a #1 guy. LeBron is not a great player either then. Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, not great players either. This is why Laker fan gets no respect generally. You're lucky to have presumably been born in southern California and root for a glamour franchise that will always have no difficulty attracting top FA's or get bull trades from their Triple A affiliate in Memphis when things go bad. In the real world, people know that championships alone don't determine who is great and who isn't. I guess Robert Horry is a great player, he's got 7 rings, 1 more than Jordan.

Finley/Nash/Dirk isn't stacked? It was.

Were they beating the Shaq/Kobe Lakers had they ever met in the playoffs?

So was Harris/Jet/Howard with Stackhouse off the bench. Much better than anything Pau Gasol ever played with pre-Lakers.

Slightly better than Miller, Battier, a not-yet washed up Eddie Jones, White Chocolate or Bonzi Wells, James Posey, etc.

[polysylab1k]

No I'm not going off box scores. I watched that series and Jackson shut him down 1v1 most of the time. I've seen Lamar Odom do similar things to Dirk at times. Yes when Dirk gets hot he makes just about everything. But that series was a prime example of Dirk's weakness. No post game, no penetration or real playmaking ability. Nelly played him straight up with a long athletic guy while defending the 3 point line. Dirk was forced to take tough contested shots or try and playmake the entire series. Which is why Dallas failed miserably.

Nelly just knew exactly how the Mavs worked, and he just crippled our system with the help of bribed refs. It's just like Delly knew the password of our account and downloaded some virus into our system, then eventually destroyed our XP.

Dirk received a offensive foul at every try of penetrating thanks to the biased officiating, then he had to shoot the ball from arc or mid-range. So it's actually not the lack of ability but the officials that blocked Dirk's way to penetrating, and he received tons of lambaste he didn't deserve.

You're comparing one of the greatest defenses ever (Boston 08) to a Don Nelson coached Warriors team Take it easy on all that gobbling Fin, you're losing brain cells.

Don Nelson knew how our offense worked, when someone knows where your flaws are exactly existing then you know you're in troubles. It was Nelson's familiarity with our strategy that made their defense look so damn efficient.

The entire point. If Dirk was "great" he would have won a couple by now. In reality Dirk is a very good, albeit one dimensional player that gets overratted constantly. Like winning a undeserved MVP and then ting the bed in the 1st round against the 8 seed.

How many rings has Larry Birk won? Bird was considered among the best players in the league but he didn't win the ring he deserved until he turned around Dirk's age. The Mavs have already been armed with the best possible weapons they can get, and seriously they will be a contender for CHAMPIONSHIP next season, even if they're not the best team.

Finley/Nash/Dirk isn't stacked? It was. Jason Kidd/Terry/Howard is a stacked a team and we can even throw in Marion now. So was Harris/Jet/Howard with Stackhouse off the bench. Much better than anything Pau Gasol ever played with pre-Lakers.

Stackhous was already a yellow leaf when he joined the Mavs, Nash never played at the MVP level in Dallas while Finley's gold age was back in 1990s. When Dirk started to become a superstar, Finley had already quitted that range. From no dimension can you observe the Harris/JET/Howard circurstance was better than Battier/While Chocolate/Bonzi Wells/Mike Miller when defense is also taken into account.

[polysylab1k]

Welp time to get plastered. It's ok Mav fan, keep those 1st round victory hopes alive!

Mavs attended the playoffs every year since Dirk became the #1 guy of our team, while we can clearly remember how the Lakers worked out in 04-05 season.

[Ghazi]

21, youre pretty dumb I must say.

1. Finley/Nash is not stacked. In any case, the 60 win team was the best team in the NBA that didn't win a le because of Dirk's injury. Is it Dirk's fault he missed the final 3 games of the Spurs' series? Furthermore these teams were before Dirk entered his prime and he was young... veterans lead teams to les in this league!

2. Nobody said Dirk's greatness was such that he should lead a team to multiple championships... but the fact that he's ringless is bad luck and in the case of '06, an absolute travesty.

3. You're re ed if you think Kidd/Howard/Terry is stacked... Kidd has been outplayed by Billups/Parker/Paul since joining the Mavs, Terry hasn't shown up in the playoffs lately, and Howard, whether it's been due to injury or stupidity, has been subpar in the playoffs lately as well save the Spurs series... it's a good team, but a stacked team? weak sauce. if it was so stacked, how come Dirk can average 30+ points, 10+ rebounds against the Nuggets and the Mavs lose 4-1? How come he can average 27/11 or so against the Hornets and the Mavs lose 4-1? Or are his points AND rebounds and efficiency fool's gold that come at the expense of his "stacked" teammates?

4. Harris/Howard/Terry w/ Stack off bench... how is that even a stacked team? No 2nd all-NBA caliber player to compliment... no stud wing player really and no low post scoring... just Dirk and a solid collection of offensive perimeter players and adequate defensive centers. Again, a good team... very good team... but a great team? Nah, would have, should they have won the le like they should, probably been considered one of the weaker championship teams. In any case, Dirk led that team to a le if not for the worst officiated Finals in the history of the universe.

5. Considering the MVP is a REGULAR SEASON award... Dirk absolutely deserved his MVP for the 90/50/40 season and clutch play in the 4th quarter. If he didn't deserve it in '07, he deserved it in '06 anyway. Dirk was playing (and was) a top 3 player in the NBA at the time.

It's just funny how you'll consider Odom/Gasol overrated to boost Kobe, but then consider Dirk's supporting casts stacked as to diminish Dirk. No rationality. This is the most liberal and baseless use of the word "stacked" I've ever seen...

[Findog]

It's just funny how you'll consider Odom/Gasol overrated to boost Kobe, but then consider Dirk's supporting casts stacked as to diminish Dirk. No rationality. This is the most liberal and baseless use of the word "stacked" I've ever seen...

Watch him trash Pau in the next Kobe vs. LeBron thread too. And how about him saying Nellie just played Dirk straight up in 07?

[redzero]

I hate when people talk about Pau being worth more because of the last two seasons. He's still the same player he's ever been, and Kobe or the Lakers haven't made him better at all.

[Culburn369]

I hate when people talk about Pau being worth more because of the last two seasons. He's still the same player he's ever been, and Kobe or the Lakers haven't made him better at all.

True, that is the dichotomy of Bryant: he does not make those around him (Gasol) better, but, better players (Gasol) around him make Bryant better.

[Sportstudi]

5. Considering the MVP is a REGULAR SEASON award... Dirk absolutely deserved his MVP for the 90/50/40 season and clutch play in the 4th quarter. If he didn't deserve it in '07, he deserved it in '06 anyway. Dirk was playing (and was) a top 3 player in the NBA at the time.

Well, I don't agree that often with Ghazi, but here I have to. As Ghazi wrote, the MVP is a REGULAR SEASON award and if a player is able to put up 50/40/90 and to lead a team to a 67-win season (still tied for 7th of all-time) he simply deserves the award. Anybody who tries to deny that has to be completely re ed.

As Findog already explained, Nellie just defended our system very well. Dallas lost 15 games during the regular season and was 0-3 against GSW. Thus, the defeat wasn't such a surprise (I think Russell stated that as well after the series was over). And Dirk was hobbled pretty badly. I bet that not many other players in the NBA would have even touched the court with that injury.

[Basketballgirl25]

Kidd has been outplayed by Billups/Parker/Paul since joining the Mav

He got outplayed by Anthony Johnson once when he was on the Nets, at least the players you named are great players then Johnson

[polysylab1k]

He got outplayed by Anthony Johnson once when he was on the Nets, at least the players you named are great players then Johnson

The sun shines on a dog's ass once in a while. Anthony " head" Johnson just played a game better than Kidd did when Kidd was probably sick with flu or something alike.

Similarly, you taste like during your menstrual days, though you never miss a during those days regardless of the unease in your womb. You're pro .

[Basketballgirl25]

The sun shines on a dog's ass once in a while. Anthony " head" Johnson just played a game better than Kidd did when Kidd was probably sick with flu or something alike.

Similarly, you taste like during your menstrual days, though you never miss a during those days regardless of the unease in your womb. You're pro .

now why are you telling me about YOURSELF again? I don't want to know if you are a pro , tell that to your friends not me

[polysylab1k]

now why are you telling me about YOURSELF again? I don't want to know if you are a pro , tell that to your friends not me

No one here would like to give you a , so you'd better hook somewhere else when your vagina itches.

[Culburn369]

No one here would like to give you a

Not so fast, Poly. I'm old & a smidge decrepit, but, I never pass up something hairy & wet.

[thOOdee]

pau is the white tim duncan...hard to say about a laker.

[VivaPopovich]

Dirk at SF any day. Pow! Pow pow