Racism and the NBA age limit

[jalbre6]

why?
the nba does not need to answer the other sports
do they belong to each other
does it mean when baseball goes on strike all sports stop

maybe the nba made the mistake of expansion but they think they can correct the problem with a farm system
what is wrong with that?

Why doesn't the NBA just buy the CBA and merge it with the NBDL? Or is that exactly what Isiah wanted to do with it before it filed Chapter 7?

[Sec24Row7]

"Dude, it's an unfair world. Sure, the field is tilted toward the schools and not the players. When your options after your prep career are either (1) go to college on an athletic scholarship, or (2) play pick-up ball while holding down an entry level job somewhere, possibly attending a community college, plenty will choose the former.

Openly paying collegiate athletes will corrupt the damn system even worse than it is already. Can you imagine the bidding wars that might have erupted between UT, Southern Cal, and LSU over Ryan Perrilloux? Or over LeBron if Ohio State, North Carolina, and UCLA could have started throwing money around?"


So what?

The rights of the kids are more important than the enjoyment of the fan faithful of college teams. Who cares if schools start throwing money around at kids? Why have THAT be illegal. The SCHOOLS are in it to make money. Let them make it, but don't force the kids to work for free like they have been doing for 100 years.

It's just stupid. Why is paying college athletes wrong? That is the fundamental question. This is what people are so brainwashed about. WHY IS IT WRONG? The answer is, IT ISN'T! If the schools are making millions off of them they should be EN LED TO SOME PERCENTAGE MORE THAN A SCHOLORSHIP THAT THEY ARENT ENCOURAGED TO TAKE THROUGH TO GRADUATION ANYWAY.

They are Slaves at worst and Indentured Servants at best.

That's just the way it is. You can love the college game the way it is and defend it all you want, but you aren't going to change the fact that colleges and the NCAA are making millions off of these kids, and their only compensation is a college education. , the stock show gives out college educations to kids who can raise the biggest chicken, there is a of a lot of money to be made in that for them...

[Spurminator]

And please people, don't you realize how idiotic it is to compare the NBA to Baseball? I don't see guys rotting on a big league roster.

Well, baseball has a Farm System. But there are no rules about when a player can be brought up to the Majors. Ken Griffey, Jr was 19 when he played his first game, and Andruw Jones may have been 18.

[picnroll]

Not entirely familiar with baseball or hockey draft salaries but I believe they don't have a fixed scale and highly doubt they get near as sweet a deal on average as NBA draft picks, i.e., far less risk to the owners. Soccer, in the US the best play for relative peanuts and are happy for that. Golf and tennis no comparison, the player assumes all the financial risk whatever age they begin at.

[sickdsm]

Exactly. It isn't an epidemic. From what i remember wasn't Griffey ready to contribute when he came up?

[Extra Stout]

I don't care what happens to college basketball. Our American system of turning intercollegiate student-athletics into an enormous industry that eclipses the primary missions of the schools involved is perverse anyway. Colleges shouldn't be serving as functional minor leagues for the pros.

As I see it, the primary problem the teams have with high school players is scouting. It is very difficult for them to gauge what sort of player a high school kid can become when all they have demonstrated is raw athleticism and the limited fundamentals a high school coach is teaching them. Frequently, that coach is abandoning his role as teacher anyway, looking instead to jump on the gravy train. So, the volatility involved in draft decisions has gone up exponentially. I think that's what bothers teams.

Plus, since these high schoolers frequently aren't ready to play for several years, they occupy a scarce roster spot with little chance of contributing, and lose the development that would come with getting playing time somewhere.

With international players who are 18, like Tony Parker was, typically they already have experience playing professionals who are much older, and even have played on their countries' national teams. There is a lot more to go on when evaluating a player's talent and potential. Teams like the Spurs who were ahead of the curve on international scouting could pluck the plums with relatively low draft picks. Now that other teams have caught on (except for the usual drafting idiots), the world has become a vast pool of talent from which teams can draw. The volatility just isn't as high.

Now what about Stern and his insistence on an age limit of 20? That doesn't seem to make sense given the reasons I've given. A minor league like the NBDL should work like it does for baseball. As for the difficulty in scouting, well it seems to me that teams are getting experienced at it and making better decisions.

But if I'm Stern, here's what concerns me: international players can have agents hyping them up long before they turn 18. International players can play on European pro teams and their own national teams before they turn 18. As the game expands and more athletically gifted people under 18 outside the US turn to basketball, they're going to have a big advantage over young Americans because they'll be more visible and more easily scouted because they're playing against real compe ion and not just average high schoolers and AAU fodder. They have a headstart.

The age limit of 20 would counteract that somewhat.

In that sense, Jermaine is biting the hand that feeds him.

[tsb2000]

Points to ponder...

I've always felt the college athletes should be paid. Not by the universities, but by the NBA. If a NBA team wants to draft a high school kid, he will get paid, but he's got to go to college. That way a kid at Duke, UNC, wherever- would have his professional rights owned by the NBA team that drafted him, and if called up, would play for that team. Seems like the best way to thread that needle, but there are still problems.

1. this would create a set of elite basketball schools- worse than now. If you thought Duke and UConn, et, al. were always on tv now, wait until they're loaded with "pre-NBA" players. Other schools would suffer a lot if they're not "elite" teams like Duke since they wouldn't attract the best players.

2. Many HS kids CAN'T get into college. Know why KG went straight to the NBA? He couldn't pass the SAT, even after taking it twice. Academically, he's as dumb as a box of rocks. There are exceptions (like Kobe, who is academically very smart), but that's generally not the case. Is this racism? I got a 1480 on my SAT way back when, but I will never make what KG is pulling in, and I've got an MBA...

One thing many people don't know is that "blue chip" college players are indeed paid. The way around the rule is the university (or boosters, whomever) will pay for a cash value insurance policy for the player. The player can draw from that policy, and when he gets his NBA $, he pays off the policy. In essence, it's a loan against his first NBA check. If the player gets hurt, the insurance policy pays off (in the millions) and he's still set for life- at least compared to us average working shmos.

[jalbre6]

So what?

The rights of the kids are more important than the enjoyment of the fan faithful of college teams. Who cares if schools start throwing money around at kids? Why have THAT be illegal. The SCHOOLS are in it to make money. Let them make it, but don't force the kids to work for free like they have been doing for 100 years.

It's just stupid. Why is paying college athletes wrong? That is the fundamental question. This is what people are so brainwashed about. WHY IS IT WRONG? The answer is, IT ISN'T! If the schools are making millions off of them they should be EN LED TO SOME PERCENTAGE MORE THAN A SCHOLORSHIP THAT THEY ARENT ENCOURAGED TO TAKE THROUGH TO GRADUATION ANYWAY.

They are Slaves at worst and Indentured Servants at best.

That's just the way it is. You can love the college game the way it is and defend it all you want, but you aren't going to change the fact that colleges and the NCAA are making millions off of these kids, and their only compensation is a college education. , the stock show gives out college educations to kids who can raise the biggest chicken, there is a of a lot of money to be made in that for them...

I doubt you'll understand this, since you believe Duke and UNC are "scrub JV teams". But I'll try anyway.

Collegiate athletes are compensated for their skills. They're given a free ride to whatever school they are playing for. If they don't like it, they can quit. If the coach or the AD isn't satisfied with their performance, they can take the guy's scholarship. If they believe that they have outgrown whatever program they play for, they can declare for the draft. And if they don't want to go to college, they can attempt to become one of the less than .001 percent that get drafted by a professional organization.

It's not fair. It's not supposed to be. But when you're 18 years old with minimal workforce experience, those are your options. Remember as well that most upper-echelon athletes that are even under consideration for a scholarship probably have never held a job, since they spend most of their free time practicing and honing their game.

I'm not worried about the rights of the kids, either. They're getting an education in return for their athletic skills. That's a pretty good deal for an 18-22 year old with minimal work experience. And if they are that good at whatever sport they're playing, they can leave early and go make theor fortune.

If you think the NCAA has these kids by the balls, that's your opinion. But most of these kids playing D-1 sports got recruited and recieved counseling on what they were about to do.

And as far as the school and the NCAA making money off of those players, that is their right. Nobody is in business to lose money. Once again, if the kid is THAT pissed that his school is making money off of him, he can quit. There are plenty of other athletes willing to take that scholarship.

Openly paying athletes will be the decline and eventual fall of collegiate athletics, if it ever happens. The chaos will be unimaginable. The scandals will be both astronomical and destructive. Reason being, if you're legitimizing payment to athletes, what goes on under the table will escalate to a scale that I can't even imagine. Quickly. Then all the problems that these young guys have dealing with pro money will hit campuses, and since there's tens of thousands of athletes on the take, young, dumb, and full of , tensions will mount.

Then these guys collecting a check, drinking, doping and ing themselves stupid, will stop attending classes, if they ever went in the first place. The next stage in your scenario is then to make the athletes non-students, just paid members of an athletic organization that wear the school's colors. Really, no different than a pro team, just with younger players. And once that hits, why control individual salaries? Pay what you can afford!!!

Next up, someone gets pissed that USC (just an example) has a $40 million payroll and decides that they want a cap. So a cap is put into place; meanwhile schools are dropping athletics left and right, just because of the rising costs now fully associated with running a program.

Also too, not to nitpick, but that stock show awarding a scholarship to the kid raising the biggest chicken is making an investment in their industry's future. If a kid learned to raise a show animal on their own, they might have a gift that proper training might turn into a rewarding career for the kid and new ideas and whatnot for the agribusiness.

[CosmicCowboy]

Also too, not to nitpick, but that stock show awarding a scholarship to the kid raising the biggest chicken is making an investment in their industry's future. If a kid learned to raise a show animal on their own, they might have a gift that proper training might turn into a rewarding career for the kid and new ideas and whatnot for the agribusiness.

raising chickens is awesome...what other area is there where a testosterone loaded high school kid is encouraged to focus on big breasts?

[leemajors]

adidas11, mic e wie is an amateur playing in professional tournaments, mostly on exemptions. most anyone can play in a pga tournament, provided they make it past the qualifying rounds on monday and tuesday. there are very strict rules on professional/amateur status in the golf world, esp on the pga tour. she can win a tournament and not make any money doing so. the minute she accepts any sort of physical gift from a sponsor or prize money, she loses her amateur status and cannot play in the us amateur or for her high school. i beleive she could be expelled from school for doing so as well - at least it is that way in texas.

[adidas11]

Ahhh...but she has the choice of whether or not to accept that money to begin with! And at that point, she can still play professionally! What the NBA is proposing is to take away that choice, from young men who are considerably older than Mic e Wie is!

Like I said before, no one ed about kids turning pro, when it was Jennifer Capriati, Alex Rodriguez, or Venus Williams. Last time that I checked, none of those athletes ever went to college (actually, Alex Rodriguez attended the University of Miami for one day, as a bargaining ploy against the Seattle Mariners).

[jalbre6]

Ahhh...but she has the choice of whether or not to accept that money to begin with! And at that point, she can still play professionally! What the NBA is proposing is to take away that choice, from young men who are considerably older than Mic e Wie is!

Like I said before, no one ed about kids turning pro, when it was Jennifer Capriati, Alex Rodriguez, or Venus Williams. Last time that I checked, none of those athletes ever went to college (actually, Alex Rodriguez attended the University of Miami for one day, as a bargaining ploy against the Seattle Mariners).

After all the money Wie's parents have dished out keeping that "amateur" status (flying to the mainland from Hawaii, no less!), she'll be a pro as soon as she wins a tourney, I'll bet.

edit: I forgot about A-Rod and his U of M experience! He actually donated close to $4 million to the school to renovate the baseball stadium last year.

[Sec24Row7]

Ok then forget the stock show example...

What about need based scholorships people get for just being poor?

That's right, we compensate athletes with money they would be eligable for even if they didnt play basketball just because they are poor enough.

Don't give me that .

College players deserve payment. Scholarships are not payment. They are means for the kid to attend the school so he can play there and make the school millions of dollars. Without it the kid wouldn't be enrolled and COULDNT PLAY THERE... read that... that is the emphasis... not "attend class."

A fully paid for education is the kid's reward? Who cares about an education for NBA caliber players.

That's like telling some 30 year old rancher in west Texas with maybe a high school education that he is going to have to attend college before they drill the 4 million barrel oil field under his property. He's sitting on a gold mine. Why the does he need an education?

[adidas11]

I wonder if schools like Tulane and Florida A&M could afford to pay their football players? LOL

[ducks]

so if people youngsters turning pro in other sports it would be ok to raise the age limit adidas11

[jalbre6]

Ok then forget the stock show example...

What about need based scholorships people get for just being poor?

That's right, we compensate athletes with money they would be eligable for even if they didnt play basketball just because they are poor enough.

Don't give me that .

College players deserve payment. Scholarships are not payment. They are means for the kid to attend the school so he can play there and make the school millions of dollars. Without it the kid wouldn't be enrolled and COULDNT PLAY THERE... read that... that is the emphasis... not "attend class."

A fully paid for education is the kid's reward? Who cares about an education for NBA caliber players.

That's like telling some 30 year old rancher in west Texas with maybe a high school education that he is going to have to attend college before they drill the 4 million barrel oil field under his property. He's sitting on a gold mine. Why the does he need an education?

Before I start here, let's get one thing straight. I am in complete agreement that a kid should take the damn money if he's a high draft pick lock (LeBron, KG, etc).

Not every guy who laces his shoes up on a college court has NBA level talent. Then if you decide just to pay NBA caliber players in college, pretty soon everyone's got their hands in the bucket. Over 500 colleges in the US have basketball programs, and with 15 guys on a team, that's 7500 players. Sixty guys get drafted each year. Get it?

So either you pay everyone and up the system worse than it is already, or you do what happens now. If a player thinks he's ready, then he leaves. Or doesn't enroll in any school and hopes he gets drafted. And if he's one of the many that aren't going to be able to play basketball for a living, this university that "exploited" him gave him the opportunity to get a degree, which may help him in the long run.

[jalbre6]

I wonder if schools like Tulane and Florida A&M could afford to pay their football players? LOL

I know you're kidding adidas, but Tulane is one of the wealthiest schools in the nation.

[leemajors]

she could turn pro if she wished, but so far she has come nowhere close to winning a professional tournament. i think phil mickelson was the last amateur to win a pro tourney, and before that it had been a while since someone had.

[jalbre6]

This, my friends, is Gerald Green from Houston.


He's a projected lottery pick that has signed a letter of intent with Oklahoma State. Last season at Gulf Shores Academy, Green averaged 28 points, 13 rebounds and six blocks. His team went 39-2.

college or pro?

[Sec24Row7]

He needs better bling earings.

I say pro.

I agree with you that not every D1 kid has NBA talent, but the system is broken.

They need to be paid SOMETHING, maybe something on the order of how hard they are recruited.

I don't have the answer, but this topic is about the NBA age limit... which ONLY deals with the kids you are talking about and agreeing with me on.

They need to go to the league, and if that option isn't open then college needs to pay them.

[adidas11]

Yes, Jalbre6, but Florida A&M isn't one of the wealthiest schools in the country.

And how much do either schools generate in terms of money from their football programs? What many are suggesting is that because college make so much money off of the basketball and football players, they should then pay those players.

What I'm trying to say is that MOST collegiate basketball and football players play for schools where the programs DON'T make lots of money, and hence can not pay the players.

If you pay college athletes, you have to pay all of them. Equally. And that includes ALL collegiate sports.

[picnroll]

I worked as a graduate student as a research assistant at a university where a patent was granted on the research. The patent subsequently drew considerable revenue from licensing to a drug company. I got nada of course. Should I have received a windfall adidas?

[jalbre6]

Yes, Jalbre6, but Florida A&M isn't one of the wealthiest schools in the country.

And how much do either schools generate in terms of money from their football programs? What many are suggesting is that because college make so much money off of the basketball and football players, they should then pay those players.

What I'm trying to say is that MOST collegiate basketball and football players play for schools where the programs DON'T make lots of money, and hence can not pay the players.

If you pay college athletes, you have to pay all of them. Equally. And that includes ALL collegiate sports.

Since Tulane has to pay rent to the Louisiana Superdome, and I know absolutely nothing about Florida A&M football, I'd guess neither program makes that much for their respective schools. , I bet that the coach at Florida A&M makes less than what some people here think we should pay players.

And paying collegiate athletes is an all-around bad idea, as I have proclaimed from my soapbox all afternoon.

[adidas11]

I worked as a graduate student as a research assistant at a university where a patent was granted on the research. The patent subsequently drew considerable revenue from licensing to a drug company. I got nada of course. Should I have received a windfall adidas?

Nope, you shouldn't receive any money from it Picnroll. Which is exactly my point. Collegiate athletes shouldn't be paid, including basketball and football players.

[picnroll]

Fine because for those feeling sorry for athletes if you want to pay athletes because they generate revenue for the university you're going to have to pay a lot of graduate students some pretty big buck, because they work on projects in a meaningful way that can generate a whole lot of money for universities.