FRC: Comparing the Lifestyles of sexual Couples to Married Couples

[Phenomanul]

The statistics on sexual vs. heterosexual promiscuity... even if not as extreme as suggested, reveal tendencies that cannot be 'positively' influenced by B2B's 'people roaming freely' factor (which was actually a valid statistical observation on his part...)

In terms of STDs, however, such promiscuity would be detrimental to society... in many ways.

But no matter what we say... B2B is only able to interpret our varying personal objections as hate... I my case, I was taught to abhor the sinful sexual lifestyle without making the people involved the object of hate... there is a huge difference. Much like we are taught to abhor murder... without necessarily hating someone who has committed murder. Worldviews are slowly shifting towards uniformitarianism... where morally everything is 'gray' and nothing is ever 'black' and 'white'... Apparently, that's the world that most of the liberals on this board want for their grandchildren.

[Duff McCartney]

But no matter what we say... B2B is only able to interpret our varying personal objections as hate... I my case, I was taught to abhor the sinful sexual lifestyle without making the people involved the object of hate... there is a huge difference. Much like we are taught to abhor murder... without necessarily hating someone who has committed murder. Worldviews are slowly shifting towards uniformitarianism... where morally everything is 'gray' and nothing is ever 'black' and 'white'... Apparently, that's the world that most of the liberals on this board want for their grandchildren.

Wait a minute, so hating the sin and not the sinner is not the same as a "gray" worldview? Enlighten me.

It's exactly the same..if you hate the sin you have to hate the sinner. That's where the sin comes from and who committed it.

Regardless, the world is not black and white. It's always gonna be gray..it always was gray. People imagine it's black and white but it's just not so.

[Phenomanul]

Wait a minute, so hating the sin and not the sinner is not the same as a "gray" worldview? Enlighten me.

It's exactly the same..if you hate the sin you have to hate the sinner. That's where the sin comes from and who committed it.

Your inability to understand the difference is largely based out of your own hate towards the Christian principles which outline the difference. It's always amusing to hear people like Bill Maher constantly gripe about Christians' supposed intolerance, when he is one of the most hateful people around. His allegations are difficult to hear only because the sound of his own 'intolerance' is louder than that of those he is criticizing. Like most anti-theists, he doesn't understand this poignant difference.

BTW, most Christians I know embrace and employ the ''hating the sin and not the sinner'' approach. Apparently though, your refusal to validate its underlying premise stems from from the fact that it counters your own allegations that somehow we are hating on sexuals themselves. In other words, you would never accept it precisely because it directly invalidates the notion that we hate them.

Regardless, the world is not black and white. It's always gonna be gray..it always was gray. People imagine it's black and white but it's just not so.

Really???

So why are laws necessary? Why are murder, theft and rape (among other acts) widely viewed as heinous?

[Cry Havoc]

I knew it was only a matter of time before the idiocy of jack met the sublime outrage of B2B.

This thread pwns.

[Cry Havoc]

BTW, most Christians I know embrace and employ the ''hating the sin and not the sinner'' approach. Apparently though, your refusal to validate its underlying premise stems from from the fact that it counters your own allegations that somehow we are hating on sexuals themselves. In other words, you would never accept it precisely because it directly invalidates the notion that we hate them.

And as one Christian to another, I do not believe it is right for Christians to impose their beliefs on other individuals, nor push that belief into government based on a marriage of church and state. I do not believe it is up to the church to run this country or use a faith-based system for a method of government. It fails, and it fails miserably every time it's attempted.

It's sad how many times it must be stated that Jesus actually sought out a pros ute and lifted her up -- the polar opposite of what many Christians try to do when engaged in a debate about sexuality.

Love first. That's what Jesus said. I see almost none of that in the present day Christian faith. It's all about massive churches with multi-million dollar sound systems and criticizing everyone else, blaming the world for it's sins instead of showing kindness before agenda.

[jack sommerset]

And as one Christian to another, I do not believe it is right for Christians to impose their beliefs on other individuals, nor push that belief into government based on a marriage of church and state. I do not believe it is up to the church to run this country or use a faith-based system for a method of government. It fails, and it fails miserably every time it's attempted.

It's sad how many times it must be stated that Jesus actually sought out a pros ute and lifted her up -- the polar opposite of what many Christians try to do when engaged in a debate about sexuality.

Love first. That's what Jesus said. I see almost none of that in the present day Christian faith. It's all about massive churches with multi-million dollar sound systems and criticizing everyone else, blaming the world for it's sins instead of showing kindness before agenda.

Honestly, you are the biggest hypocrite I have ever seen. Now you are claiming to be a Christian.

sexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22

If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13

God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah. 19:4-5, 24-25

God shows his phobia by calling gay people "sodomites" and their sexual relations "abominations." 14:24

Josiah, with God's approval, broke down the houses of the sodomites. 23:7

sexuals (those "that defile themselves with mankind") are included on the list of lawless, disobedient, unholy, and profane people. 1:10

Son, your the idiot. Lucky for you the bible is just another book and there is no for you to go to.

[Cry Havoc]

Honestly, you are the biggest hypocrite I have ever seen. Now you are claiming to be a Christian.

sexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22

If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13

God kills everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah. 19:4-5, 24-25

God shows his phobia by calling gay people "sodomites" and their sexual relations "abominations." 14:24

Josiah, with God's approval, broke down the houses of the sodomites. 23:7

sexuals (those "that defile themselves with mankind") are included on the list of lawless, disobedient, unholy, and profane people. 1:10

Son, your the idiot. Lucky for you the bible is just another book and there is no for you to go to.

Look at jack, attempting to debate things he doesn't fully understand. How par for the course of you.

[jack sommerset]

Look at jack, attempting to debate things he doesn't fully understand. How par for the course of you.

Poor Cry Havoc.

One day you will pull your head out of your ass and see what we all see. A hypocrite. And I've have seen plenty of people here say the same thing about you. I have shown many people the spew you spread. You have made alot of people laugh. God bless! But if this is how you are in the real world, seek help mofo. Seek it fast!

[jack sommerset]

at Havoc claiming to be a christian now. THAT IS AWESOME.

[spursncowboys]

And as one Christian to another, I do not believe it is right for Christians to impose their beliefs on other individuals, nor push that belief into government based on a marriage of church and state. I do not believe it is up to the church to run this country or use a faith-based system for a method of government. It fails, and it fails miserably every time it's attempted.

It's sad how many times it must be stated that Jesus actually sought out a pros ute and lifted her up -- the polar opposite of what many Christians try to do when engaged in a debate about sexuality.

Love first. That's what Jesus said. I see almost none of that in the present day Christian faith. It's all about massive churches with multi-million dollar sound systems and criticizing everyone else, blaming the world for it's sins instead of showing kindness before agenda.

You are exactly right that jesus was a god of love. He also came for the poor and weak and the sinners. Max Lucado would always say everyone is welcome in his church. His church would welcome everyone with an open heart and an open bible. Love the sinner, hate the sin does not mean accept sin. I don't understand what a faith based system is. Do you have a problem with pastors running for the govt?

[ploto]

The research, however, indicates that male sexual relationships last only a fraction of the length of most marriages.

Most heterosexual relationships also last only a fraction of the length of most marriages.

[jack sommerset]

You are exactly right that jesus was a god of love. He also came for the poor and weak and the sinners. Max Lucado would always say everyone is welcome in his church. His church would welcome everyone with an open heart and an open bible. Love the sinner, hate the sin does not mean accept sin. I don't understand what a faith based system is. Do you have a problem with pastors running for the govt?

I am telling you right now, that dude is no Christian. Perhaps he has a cousin and a parent that told him he was but that guy no way practices his so called religion. That claim was one of Havocs best!

[BacktoBasics]

Poor Cry Havoc.

One day you will pull your head out of your ass and see what we all see. A hypocrite. And I've have seen plenty of people here say the same thing about you. I have shown many people the spew you spread. You have made alot of people laugh. God bless! But if this is how you are in the real world, seek help mofo. Seek it fast!

You just don't know when to stop. Attack attack attack.

Look friend I don't know where your nic came from but there's a jack sommerset who works at Tyson Foods in San Antonio with as bad as spelling as you.

So where do you work jack? Why won't you return my PMs? Lets settle this "B2B is a loser who doesn't make any money".

[Duff McCartney]

Your inability to understand the difference is largely based out of your own hate towards the Christian principles which outline the difference. It's always amusing to hear people like Bill Maher constantly gripe about Christians' supposed intolerance, when he is one of the most hateful people around. His allegations are difficult to hear only because the sound of his own 'intolerance' is louder than that of those he is criticizing. Like most anti-theists, he doesn't understand this poignant difference.

BTW, most Christians I know embrace and employ the ''hating the sin and not the sinner'' approach. Apparently though, your refusal to validate its underlying premise stems from from the fact that it counters your own allegations that somehow we are hating on sexuals themselves. In other words, you would never accept it precisely because it directly invalidates the notion that we hate them.

Bill Maher has never followed a religion that preaches tolerance. Regardless, he's not part of the debate.

My arguement is that hating the sin and not the sinner is the ultimate gray worldview. Which you yourself earlier looked down upon I don't know why. People do bad ..therefore they must be bad right? No..they just fall under temptation and it's not always black or white.

[Phenomanul]

And as one Christian to another, I do not believe it is right for Christians to impose their beliefs on other individuals, nor push that belief into government based on a marriage of church and state. I do not believe it is up to the church to run this country or use a faith-based system for a method of government. It fails, and it fails miserably every time it's attempted.

It's sad how many times it must be stated that Jesus actually sought out a pros ute and lifted her up -- the polar opposite of what many Christians try to do when engaged in a debate about sexuality.

Love first. That's what Jesus said. I see almost none of that in the present day Christian faith. It's all about massive churches with multi-million dollar sound systems and criticizing everyone else, blaming the world for it's sins instead of showing kindness before agenda.

I agree with most of what you said, especially your last paragraph. But I'm not trying to impose my beliefs on others. Duff asked for 'enlightenment;' I simply explained my position. One which has been cast aside numerous times in light of the inconvenience it poses to their view of our beliefs.

It's ridiculous to assume that Jesus hated the adultress that was brought before him, about as rediculous as suggesting that he condoned the adulterous act itself. In fact, when expounding on the topic of adultery - his view was considered far more extreme (lustful thoughts were considered adultery in his eyes; not just the act itself).

As for influencing the laws of the land... that's fair game... we are en led to lobby for what we see fit just as they are en led to do the same... whatever wins out, wins out... that is one of the core compromises of a democratic system.

[BacktoBasics]

Apparently, that's the world that most of the liberals on this board want for their grandchildren.

I do. The world we live in, like it or not, isn't black and white. The variables of existence are far more reaching than ever before. I prefer a world where I or my neighbor is allowed to live their lives how they choose. I don't want my ability to exercise free will to be dictated by a religion I don't believe in. I don't want my elected officials guided by their imagination of a God to represent my existence. There are some reasonable fundamental laws that I think society as a whole can agree to live by. Such as theft, murder, rape and so on. You want have a Christian club that doesn't provide a ceremony for gays so be it. Enjoy your club. Just no place for that kind of discrimination in our government. Jack and Jane have certain rights as a couple then Jack and Jack should have those same rights under the law. Your religion has no business controlling our government.

[spursncowboys]

Bill Maher has never followed a religion that preaches tolerance. Regardless, he's not part of the debate.

My arguement is that hating the sin and not the sinner is the ultimate gray worldview. Which you yourself earlier looked down upon I don't know why. People do bad ..therefore they must be bad right? No..they just fall under temptation and it's not always black or white.

So the reasoning behind their act defines if it is evil or not? So if someone who was molested as a 5 year old kid grows up and starts molesting 5 year old kids is not evil?

[Phenomanul]

Bill Maher has never followed a religion that preaches tolerance. Regardless, he's not part of the debate.

My arguement is that hating the sin and not the sinner is the ultimate gray worldview. Which you yourself earlier looked down upon I don't know why. People do bad ..therefore they must be bad right? No..they just fall under temptation and it's not always black or white.

I'm annoyed by many of the people on this forum... and I'm sure the feeling is reciprocal. That doesn't mean I hate them... for me to do so would mean that I was wishing them 'ill will'... can't really say I've ever been driven there.

People saying they "want to beat the living out of someone" and actually doing so... cons utes an act of hate. I oppose unnecesary abortions that don't directly jeopardize a mother's health. That doesn't mean I go around sabotaging abortion clinics, or worse, killing the doctors.

Hating the sin simply means that I don't condone it... the sexual lifestyle disgusts me. It doesn't mean I look down on those that practice it. I don't go beating them up. Nor does it assume that I am faultless in other areas and in a position to judge them for it.

[MiamiHeat]

And as one Christian to another, I do not believe it is right for Christians to impose their beliefs on other individuals, nor push that belief into government based on a marriage of church and state. I do not believe it is up to the church to run this country or use a faith-based system for a method of government. It fails, and it fails miserably every time it's attempted.

It's sad how many times it must be stated that Jesus actually sought out a pros ute and lifted her up -- the polar opposite of what many Christians try to do when engaged in a debate about sexuality.

Love first. That's what Jesus said. I see almost none of that in the present day Christian faith. It's all about massive churches with multi-million dollar sound systems and criticizing everyone else, blaming the world for it's sins instead of showing kindness before agenda.

I'm an atheist and I subscribe to the Hate the Sin, not the Sinner viewpoint.

and no, I don't believe in Sins.

[spursncowboys]

I agree with most of what you said, especially your last paragraph. But I'm not trying to impose my beliefs on others. Duff asked for 'enlightenment;' I simply explained my position. One which has been cast aside numerous times in light of the inconvenience it poses to their view of our beliefs.

It's ridiculous to assume that Jesus hated the adultress that was brought before him, about as rediculous as suggesting that he condoned the adulterous act itself. In fact, when expounding on the topic of adultery - his view was considered far more extreme (lustful thoughts were considered adultery in his eyes; not just the act itself).

As for influencing the laws of the land... that's fair game... we are en led to lobby for what we see fit just as they are en led to do the same... whatever wins out, wins out... that is one of the core compromises of a democratic system.

+1 100%. Couldn't have said it better.

[Duff McCartney]

I'm annoyed by many of the people on this forum... and I'm sure the feeling is reciprocal. That doesn't mean I hate them... for me to do so would mean that I was wishing them 'ill will'... can't really say I've ever been driven there.

People saying they "want to beat the living out of someone" and actually doing so... cons utes an act of hate. I oppose unnecesary abortions that don't directly jeopardize a mother's health. That doesn't mean I go around sabotaging abortion clinics, or worse, killing the doctors.

Hating the sin simply means that I don't condone it... the sexual lifestyle disgusts me. It doesn't mean I look down on those that practice it. I don't go beating them up. Nor does it assume that I am faultless in other areas and in a position to judge them for it.

Like I said the ultimate gray worldview.

[Phenomanul]

Like I said the ultimate gray worldview.

It's easier for you to believe that we actually 'hate' people so that your rejection of my beliefs is justified... I understand.

[MiamiHeat]

as I said, I'm not even religious. I don't believe in any god

yet I am against sexuality, the act itself.

but I would never hurt/harm/persecute/discriminate/whatever against a sexual, because they are humans.

Humans who are confused, and are making mistakes.

[MiamiHeat]

dp

[MiamiHeat]

sexuals live a perversion

a rejection of their natural birth. there might be some self-loathing in there somewhere, or hatred towards the opposite sex for whatever reason.

Some of them have such DEEP psychological problems, they won't even accept their own gender that they were born with and wish a sex change.


It's all one big disgusting, mind- , perversion, lack of discipline and acceptance of self, psychological problems, etc.