13% of black men in late 20s in jail or prison

[Clandestino]

yes but like your ancestors many mexicans were not subject to what blacks were subject to

you are right, excuses are bad, and i do want to see homicidal maniacs in prison away from society
but your reasoning of "we are all the same now --> we have the same opportunities and choices ----> stop making excuses and go to school" is flawed because it doesnt take into account the specific environments blacks grow up in.

im not saying its ok for blacks to kill people and be criminals because...etc etc

just saying that to ignore the past and pretend that its consequences are not still lingering and affecting many people the second they come into this world is not right.

what about the mexican immigrants now that are still picking our country's vegetables???

[jalbre6]

Agree or disagree, what Yonivore said is, at the least, plausible. Not that I necessarily agree, but I don't find anything he said nearly so outlandish as defining our freedom by the liberties we grant to NAMBLA. Then again, I spend more time pondering fantasy football than I do social issues.

I do wish you would address the points Yonivore made. There are millions of Yonivores in the world, and most of them vote. If you, and those who share your views do not address his argument head-on and offer persuasive counters, then those millions will continue to cast votes counter to your's and you will remain an angry young Manny.


Personally, I still think you are mistaken in your steadfast desire to work this issue from the top down, because all it will get you is an argument; this is the sort of effort that drives rating wars on cable news channels.

Apparently this topic has special meaning to you, but what i perceive is just a setline in the waters hoping to hook some mea culpas, as though acknowledgement from whitey for past wrongs is prerequisite for fixing black plight (or whatever term is acceptable).

What if Whitey does not step up and say they are sorry? Then what?

Time to go study the results of the NFL draft.

That was beautifully written. Especially on the point about the Yoni's of the world.

[Useruser666]

[exstatic]

what about the mexican immigrants now that are still picking our country's vegetables???

Are they property of the landowner? No? Then shut the up. They should just go to Harvard and choose not to have to pick vegetables, right?

[Guru of Nothing]

That was beautifully written. Especially on the point about the Yoni's of the world.

Thanks. If only I could spend the entire day working with a beer #3 buzz.

[Clandestino]

Are they property of the landowner? No? Then shut the up. They should just go to Harvard and choose not to have to pick vegetables, right?

are the black people the property of anyone now dumbass? when was the last time they were? fact is, the mexicans are still doing ty labor jobs and they aren't out being criminals in the numbers the young black adults are...

suck a exstatic...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

So, apparently we should stop arresting people for committing crimes because of their skin color?

Welcome to the democratic party, I guess...

[RobinsontoDuncan]

STFU ahf you're such a dumb ass

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Just playing devil's advocate. Dan whines more about race than Jesse ing Jackson.

It gets old (like the Spurs offense).

[exstatic]

fact is, the mexicans are still doing ty labor jobs and they aren't out being criminals in the numbers the young black adults are...

They should just choose to do other jobs, right? Isn't it just about the choices, or is that only for groups you don't like?

While Mexican Americans have not always been treated correctly, they've never been property. Most Mexican Americans also come from intact family units of two parents. If you think that doesn't make a difference, you're wrong.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

So, apparently we should stop arresting people for committing crimes because of their skin color?

Welcome to the democratic party, I guess...

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!

dude you are exactly why when i go postal im going to target people with bush stickers first
some people are just flat out re ed

(it's funny cuz if he read the past few posts it had nothing to do with what he said)

[bigzak25]

you guys are voicing viewpoints of the extremes when the answers are in the middle.

at the end of the day?

self responsiblity rules.

don't do the crime if you can't do the time, and NO ing or blaming afterwards...it's on you.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

you guys are voicing viewpoints of the extremes when the answers are in the middle.

at the end of the day?

self responsiblity rules.

don't do the crime if you can't do the time, and NO ing or blaming afterwards...it's on you.

at the end of the day if jennifer love hewitt did that ty jigging thing right in front of me i'd do anything but not do her

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Tribal leaders and kings in Africa sold their own people into slavery. Whites were not all to blame, at least not in the beginning.

Whites were not all to blame for slavery.....

KORI!!!!! TIMVP!!!

where are you

this reply alone should be worthy of considering this the first political classic thread of all spurstalk history

[Guru of Nothing]

at the end of the day if jennifer love hewitt did that ty jigging thing right in front of me i'd do anything but not do her

Why, it's Dale Incarnegate.


....nevermind

[Guru of Nothing]

Whites were not all to blame for slavery.....

KORI!!!!! TIMVP!!!

where are you

this reply alone should be worthy of considering this the first political classic thread of all spurstalk history

Smoke, but no fire.

[Clandestino]

They should just choose to do other jobs, right? Isn't it just about the choices, or is that only for groups you don't like?

While Mexican Americans have not always been treated correctly, they've never been property. Most Mexican Americans also come from intact family units of two parents. If you think that doesn't make a difference, you're wrong.

yes, that is their choice.. but they aren't out slinging crack, robbing 7-11s, stealing cars, and all that other that gets 13% of young black males in jail... that is the whole point of this thread...

many mexicans and blacks have ty upbringings and environments, but the mexicans aren't making excuses about their environment...

[Clandestino]

you guys are voicing viewpoints of the extremes when the answers are in the middle.

at the end of the day?

self responsiblity rules.

don't do the crime if you can't do the time, and NO ing or blaming afterwards...it's on you.

manny, ex, and r2d all blame it on their environment! haha.. they have no choice but to rob, rape, and whatever else...

[Jekka]

Tribal leaders and kings in Africa sold their own people into slavery. Whites were not all to blame, at least not in the beginning.

That's bull . Coastal tribes went to the interior to kidnap other tribespeople who they didn't see as "their own people" (I hate that in America an African is an African is an Africa) to sell to the whites and Arabs that sailed in to buy them. The slave trade existed within Africa before whites got there, yes, and there is a substantial number of Africans who were kept enslaved on their home continent, but the fact of the matter is that whites weren't buying slaves just because the coastal tribes were throwing people at them. Coastal tribes found a market with whites and found that if they sold other people into slavery then their own tribes wouldn't be kidnapped and sent to the Caribbean to die in the salt mines and on sugar plantations where historical do ents note slave owners as saying that it was more cost efficient to buy and work an adult slave to death than to keep them healthy enough to reproduce.

Whites are to blame for what the slave trade became - it doesn't matter who started it here, it matters who perpetuated it and profitted off it. Slavery existed waaaaaaaay before the Atlantic Triangle was even known to have existed. You can't say that the Europeans were given the idea of slavery by Africans - they knew all about it, and they ended up resorting to Africans after they had killed too many Native Americans and European indentured servants, who were both the original slaves in the Americas.

[Clandestino]

That's bull . Coastal tribes went to the interior to kidnap other tribespeople who they didn't see as "their own people" (I hate that in America an African is an African is an Africa) to sell to the whites and Arabs that sailed in to buy them. The slave trade existed within Africa before whites got there, yes, and there is a substantial number of Africans who were kept enslaved on their home continent, but the fact of the matter is that whites weren't buying slaves just because the coastal tribes were throwing people at them. Coastal tribes found a market with whites and found that if they sold other people into slavery then their own tribes wouldn't be kidnapped and sent to the Caribbean to die in the salt mines and on sugar plantations where historical do ents note slave owners as saying that it was more cost efficient to buy and work an adult slave to death than to keep them healthy enough to reproduce.

Whites are to blame for what the slave trade became - it doesn't matter who started it here, it matters who perpetuated it and profitted off it. Slavery existed waaaaaaaay before the Atlantic Triangle was even known to have existed. You can't say that the Europeans were given the idea of slavery by Africans - they knew all about it, and they ended up resorting to Africans after they had killed too many Native Americans and European indentured servants, who were both the original slaves in the Americas.

so, they still sold them to the whites. the whites weren't about to go into the interior of africa at the time... and they didn't have to.. the africans were more than willing to do it for them.. and profit from it also... money talks in every country... why can't you guys understand that.

anyway, the black community today needs to stop making excuses and get with the program...

[Jekka]

so, they still sold them to the whites. the whites weren't about to go into the interior of africa at the time... and they didn't have to.. the africans were more than willing to do it for them.. and profit from it also... money talks in every country... why can't you guys understand that.

anyway, the black community today needs to stop making excuses and get with the program...

The whites couldn't go far into Africa at the time, it was a death trap. Many tried - and in fact, slave traders didn't have a long life expectancy at all because they still had to go to Africa to get the slaves. Why did they do it? Because there was a demand and a market and they could make a living and build a life for themselves - as if a hungry African tribe couldn't see the money to be made here and wouldn't be willing to sell a few people they didn't know. Do you think that the volume of slaves traded over the course of the Atlantic Slave Trade would have been nearly as much had there been no white interest? There wouldn't even have been an Atlantic Slave Trade if that had been the case. Whites also had guns, something that most Africans did not have then (not until the whites gave guns to them so that they could fight each other while the whites took over the land and drew political borders that would keep them fighting for centuries to come) which could be used to coerce someone into doing something they didn't really want to do.

Whites were willing to go to the coast, and it was a decision by coastal tribes largely to either kidnap or be kidnapped. Since you're all about choices it seems, which would you have chosen? Have your family separated and taken aboard those ships were a promise of survival was shaky at best only to arrive in a land where they'd be worked to death, or sell someone else and make enough money to feed your family for a while?

You act like the choices presented in this thread should be so easy for people to make, Clandestino. They're not - especially when you aren't getting support to do the better thing.

[travis2]

Oh really?

OK, so what would you suggest?

[JoeChalupa]

Just do the right thing.

[travis2]

Just do the right thing.

But we've just been told we can't expect that.

[JoeChalupa]

I demand it.