I am SO tired of the Bonner hating...

[z0sa]

That has literally nothing to do with what I posted, and considering Bonner is one of our best trade assets, it's definitely possible his time with the team is limited.

[ElNono]

That has literally nothing to do with what I posted, and considering Bonner is one of our best trade assets, it's definitely possible his time with the team is limited.

Did you look at the thread date that quote came from?

[z0sa]

Did you look at the thread date that quote came from?

Explain it's relevancy in the context of the post you quoted.

[Obstructed_View]

Nah I said he should be starting last season(not even sure if I did, just taking your word that I did say that). This season I'd cry if Bonner started with all the talent we had up front. Mcdyess should be starting right now, and it's not even close. I have not been impressed with Splitter. He moves his feet well on defense and can keep his arms straight up... other than that, I haven't seen much early on.

News flash: Dice was here last year. The only person on the front line that's new this year is the one you're not impressed with, so you're still a moron for thinking Bonner should start.

I think I'm happy that you like Bonner (who Gary Neal outrebounds) and don't like Splitter, particularly since you think Roger Mason Jr is good.

[ElNono]

Explain it's relevancy in the context of the post you quoted.

The relevancy is that you also called him a choker, that the fairly hard evidence for why he is a choker is widely available too, that you seemingly gave up on the guy back then, but now that he's been re-signed and it's on the team, you have the balls to go around pointing fingers calling other people haters.

To be completely honest, this is not personal, because it's not just you. Plenty of other good posts in that thread from people that have short memory.

[z0sa]

The relevancy is that you also called him a choker, that the fairly hard evidence for why he is a choker is widely available too, that you seemingly gave up on the guy back then, but now that he's been re-signed and it's on the team, you have the balls to go around pointing fingers calling other people haters.

To be completely honest, this is not personal, because it's not just you. Plenty of other good posts in that thread from people that have short memory.

I didn't call Bonner a choker. You assume that for no reason. Just because I was being "realistic" about him being resigned (or if resigned, traded), doesn't mean I consider Bonner a choker.

As for giving up on him, I was unaware of where he'd be following the season. I think you have just assumed too many things. But I'm not afraid of being accountable, and if Bonner is even close to as streaky as last playoffs, then I will be "through" supporting him. He's had more chances than some are willing to give, I accept that.

[Agloco]

I honestly think that people don't understand how good Bonner is on this Spurs team. I know I'm in the 5% minority that likes Bonner and thinks he is a KEY chip to us winning a ring, and the numbers do not lie. When he starts, he is our best 3-point shooter, and most consistent 4-man. You know exactly what you're getting with Matt: Solid defense in the post and poor defense against quick 4s, exceptional 3-point shooting (not as of late but it will come around). He also is a great pick-setter (he needs to work on his midrange game so he can pick and pop, cause he definitely can't roll) which is VERY underrated. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The 4/5 spot is NOT what is wrong with this Spurs team. It's 2 things: Our piss-poor perimeter D, and total lack of chemistry.

You can go there and check it out for yourself, but according to 82games.com, Bonner has been out 3rd best player this season, behind Manu and Tim. Not only that, but for his adjusted +/- per 48 minutes, he has been 4 points better THAN ANY OTHER SPUR!!!

I know everyone has banded together and hates Bonner, but he has done very good for us. I also know that everyone thinks Pop is a dumbass. It's actually quite the opposite, the fans are the dumbasses because he has been a genius with his lineups. He knows what is most effective for us, and personally the only thing I would change would be to give Bogans no more than 10 minutes a game in a specialty role and let Parker/Hill/RJ start.

With Bonner and McDyess, we have two above average PF who can both start depending on the opponent and they have both been very underrated this season. The funny thing is, I think our team will be the second best team in the playoffs if RJ can give us just a little bit more and we stay healthy. I honestly think we would win 4 games against any East playoff team, but we match up so terribly against the Lakers (Pau/Kobe specifically), I don't see us having a chance whenever we meet them, be it in the 2nd round or WCF.

Go ahead and flame me boys.

Playoffs

[ElNono]

I didn't call Bonner a choker. You assume that for no reason. Just because I was being "realistic" about him being resigned (or if resigned, traded), doesn't mean I consider Bonner a choker.

As for giving up on him, I was unaware of where he'd be following the season. I think you have just assumed too many things. But I'm not afraid of being accountable, and if Bonner is even close to as streaky as last playoffs, then I will be "through" supporting him. He's had more chances than some are willing to give, I accept that.

Don't get me wrong. I still love you z0sa. No .

[ElNono]

BTW, I got the choker part from here:

Was he a choker in last playoffs, brah?

He had too much pressure for a role player in his first real playoffs. But if you want my opinion without the lining, yes he did.

[z0sa]

Yes, I realize I said that. I was hoping that conversation wouldn't bite me in the ass. However, in my defense, I said he choked in 09, but had too much pressure - he was set up for the "choke". I didn't brand him as an actual choker, just said that he did indeed choke that 1 playoffs due to the high pressure, which essentially no role player could handle. IMO, he did not choke these last playoffs. See the last couple games against the Suns where he was shooting every time he was open.

And you gotta know you are one of my favorite posters, Nono.

[ALVAREZ6]

Offensive rating and defensive rating are meaningless? What's the best stats you want to use to read what a player can do? Are you expecting anyone to ing compare to Robinson?

It's rather sad how en led Spurs fans act towards players on our roster. The fact that people were HAPPY Bonner got hurt, consider him a bad player, etc. all just show your true colors. We're not going to get another Robinson anytime soon - especially in this day and age. Good bigs are so few and far between, we watch players like Jermaine O'Neal and Shaq demand huge contracts that they don't deserve. We, as fans of our own team, trash talk and hate on one of the better 3 point shooters in the league.

I don't get the hate for anyone on our roster, and the blame people place on a single player is stupid. Blame the ing front office and coach for not finding adequate talent to place around our trio. Blame them for squandering Scola, or not building Mahinmi or Butler or any of our other "projects."

Bonner can't defend OR play the 5. You want to blame someone for that besides Pop? Blame Tim Duncan. He's the one who doesn't want to be a center. For all the larger players that box out Bonner, there's the smaller PFs that he boxes out. For all the athletic players that blow past him, there's the slower players that he slows down.

But, as it is ...

When have I ever said I expected someone to fill in for David Robinson? with the assumptions people...trust me, I completely understand that there is a very limited number of true, solid big men in the league. I've known this for some time, and I do not feel en led or anything, it's not like I expect the Spurs to sign Kevin Garnett or Dwight Howard. But that doesn't mean I wasn't content with players like Oberto, or it doesn't mean that I am not currently content with Antonio McDyess. I love Dyess and once Splitter develops and gains experience I'm sure I will love his game.

Now, how did you assume everything I've just refuted??? Let me be clear: THIS THREAD IS ABOUT MATT BONNER. And that's it. With that said, Matt Bonner is NOT an adequate PF/C. Now, I understand that it isn't his fault he's on the roster, NOR am I saying I want him replaced...because he's that irrelevant to me. Sure he can knock some shots down during the season, but his role is not and should not be too significant on this team.

A lot of the dislike for Bonner came during last year's playoffs when he was completely useless. He would come in, not play defense, not rebound...not do things the Spurs need from a forward. Last year, it's important to note the Spurs had a less experienced McDyess (in terms of the Spurs system), and Tiago Splitter also wasn't on the roster. So, it's a different situation this year. I'm sorry for being frustrated by small forwards such as Jared Dudley grabbing tons of offensive rebounds against the Spurs during the playoffs...snatching more opportunities for the Suns. I know it's not Matt Bonner's strength to play like a big man, but in a playoff situation, where your season is over if you lose, I want players out on the floor that are gonna do the dirty work...especially if you're 6'10".

All of this can be summarized to: I don't want Bonner to play too many minutes per game come playoff time. Especially if he's already missed a few shots in a row to start off...he renders himself useless.

[ALVAREZ6]

This post pretty much sums up the idiocy of Bonner haters perfectly. Notice the first lines where he disregards fairly hard evidence for literally no reason (apparently, one MUST judge a player by "eyeballing" it, even though that's the very definition of inaccuracy and bias). Then follow the next paragraph as he puts forth a jumbled bit of jargon that's vague, un predictive, and inaccurate.

This response should just be reposted by the Bonner haters over and over.

Blah, blah, blah, blah...How about this:

There comes a point where statistics can be misleading. They can portray something that nobody has seen over the years. Why do we have any sports analysts???? Because statistics don't always mean everything; observation is also very important, and on the "sign or do not sign and drop decision", observation is probably just as or MORE important than pure statistics. In fact, you can mislead others in so many ways, especially when it comes to sports. For example, with statistics, I could argue that Monta Ellis is a better offensive player than Kobe Bryant. However, if your team is in hopes of a championship and wants scoring, there is no doubt 99% of people would rather have Kobe Bryant on their team.

Let's apply to this case, since after all we are arguing about Matt Bonner( Bonner). With the statistics provided earlier in this thread, one could argue that Bonner is just as effective as Tim Duncan.

Well, we are talking about value in this thread, aren't we??? No one on Earth would value Bonner even remotely close to Duncan. Unless they are missing 75% of their brain.

So this is why I disregarded these statistics...I don't do it most of the time, only in this case because they really don't show anything. You cannot tell me from those statistics the relative worth of those players.

The 2nd part of your post: my ramblings were inaccurate? How so?
I claimed that Bonner is relatively useless (compared to being useful) when it comes to the grand scope of the Spurs. He's not an adequate defensive player, he doesn't rebound, and quite frankly, these parts of the game are crucial for the Spurs system. At least historically.

Whether or not Matt Bonner is on the Spurs roster has a VERY SMALL effect on the outcome of the Spurs season. Agree or disagree???? Because all of my posts can pretty much be summarized to this.

Don't dare you respond to this and say that you disagree and that if the Spurs did not have Matt Bonner this year, they would not go as far as they would like...because if you do, you are admitting you don't know .

[ALVAREZ6]

Since no one has responded to this topic we were debating earlier for over 6 hours...you either silently agree with my statement, or you're out of your mind(s).

[dougp]

Since no one has responded to this topic we were debating earlier for over 6 hours...you either silently agree with my statement, or you're out of your mind(s).

Actually there's no point arguing with you. You're firm in your stance, and I know that I am. Bonner fits the role he was brought here for perfectly. He was brought in to shoot and provide 6 extra fouls. His other tangents lead Pop to playing him more or expecting more than he was capable of. He has hustle and energy, and isn't a terrible defender - but his rebounding numbers have never been stellar. He's never strayed far from his career average for rebounds, so the best way to relate it is bringing in Shaq and then expecting him to shoot 3's or defend a small forward. The bad thing is, you know Pop would probably try to draft up plays like that for Shaq if we had him.

But I have to admit, I have personal connections to Bonner so I'll probably be a bit of a homer.