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according to most people in this thread our education system is failing. liberal teaching has been on the rise more and more.. is it related?
Man, more and more this forum just makes me laugh everyday. Liberal social indoctornation is now at the root of our flawed education system? Amazing!
according to most people in this thread our education system is failing. liberal teaching has been on the rise more and more.. is it related?
Yep. Simply amazing we've allowed it.
I would say that using schools to push social agendas of the left and right is a contributing factor to the poor performance of K-12 education in this country, as well as the reluctance to reintroduce the concept of failure to students.
I would say that "liberal social indoctrination" in the schools is a symptom of a value shift that adversely affects the way young people grow up in this country.
It used to be important to raise disciplined children with a strong work ethic and valuable skills. Now, parents let their kids do more as they please to avoid conflict, and don't place any expectations on them, in order to avoid unpleasant aspects of parenting like discipline. They don't want to "stifle" their kids' "creative spark." "Experts" actually encourage this. Well, yeah, parents may end up with a less stressful home life, but then again, their kids can't do anything and end up living at home until they're 30.
Structure and discipline are discouraged because it thwarts "awareness" and "individuality." Great. So we raise a generation of kids who can express their individuality but can't hold a job. That's marvelous for civilization.
I understand there has to be a balance, but we've gone off the deep end.
Add to that an expectation that success is guaranteed, that we will be better off than our parents as a matter of birthright, and we find ourselves counting on some other country's children for the next generation of scientists and engineers.
That I can agree with, but the concept that the left is the only one pushing social agendas (look at the freaking first post in this thread) in schools is downright idiocy.
Give me and example of a Conservative social agenda being "pushed" in schools?
Here's an interesting example of what I was talking about:
The Washington Times reports that Montgomery County Public Schools (here in Maryland) have barred parents from sitting in on classes in which a new sex-education curriculum will be taught. This represents a departure from normal policy under which "classroom visits and conferences by parents and other persons in the school community are encouraged." The school system justifies the restriction in the case of sex-education on the theory that the parents' presence in this environment would have "a chilling effect" on frank discussion by students.
This rationale might be more compelling if the school system actually were interested in a frank exchange of ideas. However, such is not the case. In fact, teachers in the pilot program have been admonished not to offer any "information, interpretation, or examples" beyond what is prescribed when discussing sexual iden y and orientation.
It appears, then, that Montgomery County's interest is in indoctrination, not discussion, and that parents are being excluded so that they will not discover the nature of the indoctrination their children are receiving. According to the Times, that indoctrination will include the following: gender iden y is "a person's internal sense of knowing whether he or she is male or female;" "most experts in the field have concluded that sexual orientation is not a choice;" and (until it was deleted last month under pressure) "sex play with friends of the same gender is not uncommon during early adolescence."
As I mentioned, this is a "pilot" program. A "citizens advisory committee" is supposed to collect feedback from students, teachers, and parents and make a recommendation to the school board as to whether to implement the program county-wide. Which makes it seem particularly odd that parents will not be allowed to observe the program in action. Moreover, Mic e Turner of the Citizens for Responsible Curriculum says that teachers are refusing to supply parents with copies of the curriculum or the course resource materials. This looks like the nanny state with a twist -- a nanny who is partial to alternative life-styles.
Well yesterday, cooler heads prevailed. A federal court judge temporarily enjoined the County from implementing the program, which was set to begin today. The injunction is for ten days, but the judge's ruling expresses deep concern about aspects of the course, and the school system apparently has decided to back down. Judge Alexander Williams, a Clinton appointee, wrote that the course:
There's my example...let's have one from the other side now.
See the original subject of this thread.
From the original post:
Sounds to me like they just want balance.
Ha. Nice try.
First of all, this sounds (and I'm not saying you don't have a point) like nothing more than the traditional generational gripe that the new generation has it to easy.
When I was a kid I walked barefoot through snow etc.
I think children need to be held accountable. But I think the vast majority of schools in this country DO hold their children accountable. While this may very well be a contributing factor in the decline in places, I don't think it's the widespread problem it's being made out to be in this thread.
Many of the countries that are kicking our asses have socities that are far more to the left than the United States. That seems to at the very least weaken this theory.
DING DING DING.
Dear conservatives:
I applaud your wish to raise your kids to have a healthy fear of God. However, that does not excuse your insistence upon living in a fantasy world.* That should be reserved for the realm of liberals.
* Yes, I believe in God, Jesus, the Apostles' and Nicene creeds, etc. etc. I don't believe in shutting my brain off when reality doesn't match up with my dogma. If Martin Luther had been that way, we'd all still be Catholic peasants saving up all our extra pennies to buy our dead relatives' way out of Purgatory.
BINGO!
Schools may attempt to hold kids accountable.
BUT PARENTS DON'T. And if parents don't, there is no way the educational system in this country can pick up that slack. Teaching is difficult enough without having to play mommy and daddy to a room of 20 kids every day as well.
In other countries to the left of us with better educational systems, yeah, they may have socialism, but they cut the bull and teach children math, science, proper language, history. They can do so because they have BOTH parental support and involvement. Here, either parents don't care or they think their child is perfect and blame the teacher for their child's every failing.
By the way, in a lot of European countries, there are educational crises as well, for some of the same reasons. It's not as if the EU has some huge advantage in the percentage of their citizens who get college degrees (I read they get 23% to our 27%).
Culture is our problem. Parents value their own comfort over raising their kids to be productive citizens. Getting back to NCLB, now parents have to accept that if their kid doesn't pass the performance exams, they're not going anywhere, and while they can and moan at the teachers all day long, they better get involved and make sure their kid finds a way to pass that exam, whatever it takes.
Luckily, this age may be our cultural nadir for a while. The people born 1982 and later, so far, demographically appear to have values with regard to morals, work ethic, education, etc., more akin to the generation that grew up in the Depression than the Boomers, the "Me Generation," or the X'ers.
Once the Boomers start to die off in twenty years or so, maybe their values will die with them.
Once we get through a generation that is NOT as well off as its parents, that will change.
The folks entering the work force now (younger than me) will be just that generation. They're not looking too kindly on the prospect of being forced to support their parents' retirement and medical care on top of having to establish their own families, all while their parents still have 20 years of able-bodied work left in them.
"The American Dream" is the guiding myth that underlies this society. The problem is that instead of opportunity it's become a matter of outcome that is the focus of our political and educational ins utions.
I can buy that Stout.
Restated:
Once upon a time, the "American Dream" was that no matter who you were, if you worked hard enough, you could carve out a little piece of heaven for yourself.
Today, the "American Dream" is to get paid enough to live an affluent lifestyle without having to do any work.
See: Rome, 4th century A.D.
interesting. do you think history is beginning to repeat itself with the U.S being the next Rome?See: Rome, 4th century A.D.
Maybe, with television playing the role that lead did.
Another fine example of your public schools in action
"Kevin Francois gave up his lunch break to talk to his mother, but it ended up costing him the rest of the school year," reports the Ledger-Enquirer of Columbus, Ga.:
Which raises the question: Do people who think "conversating" is a word have any business administrating tests in the first place?
Damn. If only Kevin had been on the phone with his mom's lesbian partner then the little snot would've deserved it, eh?
I'm confused. Some are complaining that the schools are too easy on the kids, and now, when a kid breaks the rules and gets disciplined, it's a bad thing? Talk about a mixed message.
a little common sense would be best. dude's mom is in iraq. it is not like she gets to call everyday. she could die before she gets to call again...
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