what you are missing is the fact tha Israel IS the only USA presence in the middle east. Good luck trying to keep uncle Sam out of it
Anybody that separates Israel from USA is delusional. They are ONE
Hey, I want Uncle Sam to walk in after it's over and pick up the pieces.what you are missing is the fact tha Israel IS the only USA presence in the middle east. Good luck trying to keep uncle Sam out of it
I still haven't heard a sound reason why the US wants to be in the ME at all.
Oh, I agree that under the status quo they're both on the same boat. They don't have to be though. They don't have to be enemies either.
I most definitely am. It's one thing to be a supporter of a country. It's a whole different thing when the country in question is totally dependent on you to survive.
The hypocrisy of the United States is nowhere more evident than on regard to Israel. If clearly you believe that us pulling support from them cons utes them being "exterminated" and that it's wrong to do so, well we've allowed many more people to be exterminated without so much as lifting a proverbial finger to help them out. Israel should be no different.
Being against Israel's policies with respect to the Palestinians, the U.S./Israel alliance and support, and the general disregard that I hold the strongly conservative and radical element of the Israeli government doesn't mean I want them exterminated.
lol saying Israel is dependent on the US to survive. The 6 day war was fought with stuff they bought from France, they slapped 3 countries at once without the US's help.
"During the run-up to the [Six-Day War], France embargoed the delivery of offensive weapons to the Middle East, a move affecting only Israel."
"In his book Six Days, veteran BBC journalist Jeremy Bowen claims that on 4 June 1967, the Israeli ship Miryam left Felixstowe with cases of machine guns, 105 mm tank s s, and armored vehicles in "the latest of many consignments of arms that had been sent secretly to Israel from British and American reserves since the crisis started" and that "Israeli transport planes had been running a 'shuttle service' in and out of RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire"."
They are entirely dependent on the U.S. to survive. Which is why the lobby for Israel is so strong and the relations are so tight. It's also why Israel feels they can do anything with regard to the Palestinian question, because they know that U.S. will do nothing to stop them from building settlements or ever devising a two state solution.
your best source to support your statement is a journalist making a "claim" about a war that took place when he was 7 years old?
What's funny is, the Taliban and Al-Queda would have never survived without the US's help, yet you don't seem to care about that. You seem more concerned with the US helping a country that's never done anything to harm the US, my guess is because of the Jews living there.
I don't know what being born during the time period has anything to do with it. Your logic is flawed, in that case, no one born after 1945 can know anything about WWII because they weren't born during the time period.
What's funny is, the Taliban and Al-Queda would have never survived without the US's help, yet you don't seem to care about that. You seem more concerned with the US helping a country that's never done anything to harm the US, my guess is because of the Jews living there.
I have no sides in this issue. I'm not a Jew nor am I a Muslim. I know the United States has helped the Taliban and without our support they would never be as powerful as they are now. I'm a firm believer that the policies we implemented during the Cold War are coming back to bite us in the ass. All to try to fight an ideal that never will succeed. Ever.
My criticism is mainly of the relations between Israel/United States, I think it's the same as the relationship between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia. We know where the 9/11 hijackers came from, but we will never invade because we are too cozy with them. Just like we KNOW Israel has nukes, and refuses to abide by treaties set out, but we'll never criticise or sanction them, because the relationship is much too cozy.
Knowing is one thing, making claims about secret weapons exchanges and embargoes is something else.
But I agree with the rest of this post. The US knows all things related to Islamic terrorism are dependent on Saudi Arabia, I wouldn't go as far as to call it the the central point of Islamic terrorism or anything, but I think it contributes more to terrorism than any other middle eastern country.
Also yeah Israel has nukes but most people know those are for defensive purposes. If Israel were to get aggressive with nukes and vaporize a neighboring country, they'd have to face from the rest of the world and would end up getting destroyed.
DOK, im not anti israeli , the palest. need to grow some balls but Israel is an extremely oppressive nation. They completely ignore all the UN tells them and flex their muscles whenever they want.
Israel is no more of a terrorist state than Iran which is sad tbh.
Many of my jewish friends completely oppose all this. The far right in every situation is the worst.
Sons, why are you debating with a little thief who begged on this forums for 800$ to pay his school fees and never paid it back?
lol duff.
I agree there are differences, but if you are going to be a Jew hater, then go yourself for your bigotry. We are trying to eliminate racism, and those like you are a poisonous evil.There are differences in the Islam of Persians and Arabs anyway.
Islam in Iran of course is a byproduct of Arabian imperialism.
Ah yes, the Arabs back then were not much better than todays Zionists/US war machine.
Iran, on the other hand, hasn't started a war in over 2 centuries.
If Israel really wanted to flex their muscles they could turn their neighboring countries into parking lots, all they've done is defend their country. The Palestinian militias do a great job hiding behind civilians making it seem like Israel is deliberately harming innocent people, but terrorist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah leave them no other choice. If Israel ignored everything the UN said the Sinai Peninsula would still be theirs.
defend their country? Against ghazans that pretty much live in there?
THEY LAUNCHED A FULL SCALE ASSAULT VS A GROUP OF POWERLESS PEOPLE.
F-16s, artillery, calculated bombing vs a group of people with small guns and khatousha rockets?
One of the previous prime minister of Israel was quoted as saying this
The seige of Ghaza was what disgusted me. COllective punishment. They are angry at a couple so they decide to put all of ghaza under seige, deny basic medical and food supplies to starve to the people...The threat that the Palestinians pose to Israel is far less than what the nation of Lichtenstein poses to the soviet union
you think thats goign to bring them more enemies or more friends?
The funny thing is, most of the arab coutnries don't give a about the palest. people themselves, they have their own interests at hand. The ghazans on the other hand live in every day ghettos. Don't believe me, visit the place yourself or look online.
It is inexcusable. For a developed country like israel, they are held to higher standards.
Last month when peace talks were being held with Biden, Natayu decided to bolt and not even show up, a clear indicator of how important it was for him. The matter was over the building of settlements when it was stated that they would stop building them a LONG time ago. They continue to build settlements today.
Do you know what happens settlements are built?
The people living there are evicted.
Their homes are demolished.
And they watch complete strangers inhabit what they called their home.
That is what infuriates me with israel.
The ing Islamic extremists thrive off of the oppression that Israel practices. If it wasn't for that, they would have no platform.
Mark Reghav is one of chief snakes in this whole situation.
DOK i suggest you listen to Norman Finkelstein. He is a jewish man whose parents were in concentration camps during the holocaust and he has dedicated his life to stop the oppression of the palest. people.
One of the best debaters I have ever seen, nobody debating him can offer a proper answer.
Ironically, Israel banned him from the country for over a decade!
Don't blame Israel for that, blame Hamas for hiding amongst innocent people and putting them at harm. Hamas is responsible for countless suicide bombings and deaths in israel, yet I don't hear about how bad they are. What the is Israel supposed to do, stand by and watch innocent Israelis get murdered by Hamas?defend their country? Against ghazans that pretty much live in there?
THEY LAUNCHED A FULL SCALE ASSAULT VS A GROUP OF POWERLESS PEOPLE.
F-16s, artillery, calculated bombing vs a group of people with small guns and khatousha rockets?
The seige of Ghaza was what disgusted me. COllective punishment. They are angry at a couple so they decide to put all of ghaza under seige, deny basic medical and food supplies to starve to the people...
If you have a better way for Israel to thwart Hamas, I'm all ears, but Hamas, like all other terrorist groups, hides amongst the people, Israel has no way of telling whether or not someone is an innocent Ghazan or a Hamas terrorist cell.
Yeah exactly, they don't want Palestinians anymore than Israel does, so why is Israel so bad?
No, the Islamic extremists thrive off dumb sticks who think Israel needlessly murders innocent people when all Israel is trying to do is root out Islamic extremists. The whole objective of groups like Hamas is to portray Israel as the villian, and they do so by basically forcing Israel to tear through innocent villages in order to root out terrorists. For all the stories Palestine sends out of Israeli troops killing what appear to be innocent people, you never hear about the person who looked innocent but actually had a bomb strapped to his ass that blew up on a bus full of Israeli people.
Did anyone stand up in outrage while America killed innocent Afghan people while trying to destroy Al Queda, take the Taliban out of power and find Osama Bin Laden? Of course not, Al Queda was responsible for a large scale terrorist attack in America, everyone knew that innocent Afghans would die in the process of the US rooting out Al Queda, and if they weren't willing to do whatever it took to stop Al Queda, there could have easily been another terrorist attack.
The same logic applies here, all Israel is trying to do is prevent more terrorist attacks in their country.
*sigh* DOK, you really need to view this situation from all angles. you can't compare that to 9/11. The palest. and the Israelis both have a legit claim to the same land which is why its so hard to pick a side.
You are writing Israel off as the good guy that can do no wrong, kill people, and do it in the name of justice.
Where do you draw the line defining justice and self defense.
If a kid with a paintball gun comes to my house and shoots me, I cant run him over with my car, even though I was defending my house and my body.
There is something that countries like Israel try to get away with which is the use of disproportionate force to justify the means.
I already coneided the fact that Hamaas is bad and a main contributer to the failed peace talks.
But are you seriously going to tell me that Israel wants peace when they have disrespected the VP of the United stataes hosting a peace talk and walking out?
You think they want peace when they continue to build new settlements which IS ILLEGAL under international law. What land the palest. have lost, they have lost, but why take over more land?
Put all that other hatred asside and just think about it from that angle. It took me a while to also.
What you have to understand is that the whole situation can't be looked at through a naive comic book eye glass. You don't have a villain, and a super hero. Rather you have two oppressive regimes that thrive off one another and are heroes to their respective side.
Mexican drug cartels commit countless crimes, abductions, murders on the border here. Do we go carpet bombing them?
Israel needs to grow some ing balls and try some more man to man combat before blowing up buildings they "Believe" to be housing terrorists from a 1000 ft i nthe sky. Just because we have given them the latest weaponry/aircraft like a noble does to a beggar, doesn't mean they can use it to kill everything in site.
Yea hamaas is bad, but tell seriously tell me what keeps them in power?
Sorry but that has to be the dumbest ing excuse I have ever heard. It takes a grain of common sense to realize that these terrorists, however bad they are, are not stupid.
Should they openly come outside and let Israel know where they are standing so they can bomb them?whenever I watch Fox news I hear that over and over and just shake my head. They are fighting a guerilla type of war against a nation being helped to no end by us.
Ghaza is an EXTREMELY small place, actually ISRAEL ITSELF IS TINY. Check the statistics for the population density in the area, any good intentioned person would hold back before openly bombing the area. To say someone is hiding is to manipulate the truth
Before I end this argument, DOK I would like to ask you...
Whats the difference between the Israeli tank that blows up the building and the suicide bomber that blows up ____.?
Lets say, regardless of who starts it, one causes the other.
The angry israelis retaliate and blow up a building, killing innocent women and children.
The relatives of the deceased vow to avenge their deaths and kill other Israelis..
and the cycle repeats itself.
What you are calling for , is the continuation of it.
Now, I am not advocating either, I am actually trying to equate both evils with one another and showing you why your logic is flawed.
What makes it ok for the Israelis to kill the palest?
Both have lived their for generations.
one is poor.
One leeches of the US for aid and supplies.
One controls the media,
The other is antagonized by the media.
I didn't realize how stupid we were untill I actually visited europe for the first time. You'll easily come to realize that even though ALL the european nations ushered the creation of Israel and were in support of it, none of them can't stand its presence today.
they aren't keeping an entire group of people under seige, demolishing their houses, and building their own.
You know...sometimes that tends incite hatred
Why should we just disregard the fact Israel is only responding to a bunch of sand ######s starting conflict?
What part of your ethnic history are you blocked on to be able to say racist like this with such impunity? ing disgraceful.
Why should we just disregard the fact Israel is only responding to a bunch of sand ######s starting conflict?
It's Israel's country. Check a globe if you don't believe me.
And you seem to think sand ###### terrorist groups are allowed to suicide bomb people as well.
It's impossible to draw the line. If Palestinians don't wanna die, they should take that up with terrorist groups who deliberately leave civilians hung out to dry so Israel can kill them and look bad.
That's the most asinine comparison ever. Hamas kills Israeli people, it's not a terrorist group that runs around firing paint ball guns. That re ed analogy is just further proof that you seem to have no problem with Hamas' operation.
huh?
Yet you're still talking about Israel?
Given that areas inhabited by sand ######s and never at peace and those peace talks wouldn't have done jack , I'd say that's irrelevant. There's nothing Israel can do about the fact they're surrounded by barbaric towel heads.
I'm not gonna put all the other hatred aside. These are the same low forms of human life that ran planes into the world trade towers. If Palestinians and rag heads in general wanted peace, they'd stop letting extremist clerics have control of their country.
We should certainly do more than we currently are doing.
Wtf do you think keeps them in power? Countries like Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia that fund terrorism.
Some of us did. Collateral is unavoidable, but our soldiers are professionals and we expect no less than them to follow the proper rules of engagement. The end should never justify the means.
ok, the jist of what you you're saying is tha ta israeli is allowed to kill a palest, but not the other way around. I support neither. Suicide bombing is just as bad as what Israel is doing, check civilian casualties and they should match.It's Israel's country. Check a globe if you don't believe me.
And you seem to think sand ###### terrorist groups are allowed to suicide bomb people as well.
It's impossible to draw the line. If Palestinians don't wanna die, they should take that up with terrorist groups who deliberately leave civilians hung out to dry so Israel can kill them and look bad.
That's the most asinine comparison ever. Hamas kills Israeli people, it's not a terrorist group that runs around firing paint ball guns. That re ed analogy is just further proof that you seem to have no problem with Hamas' operation.
huh?
Yet you're still talking about Israel?
Given that areas inhabited by sand ######s and never at peace and those peace talks wouldn't have done jack , I'd say that's irrelevant. There's nothing Israel can do about the fact they're surrounded by barbaric towel heads.
I'm not gonna put all the other hatred aside. These are the same low forms of human life that ran planes into the world trade towers. If Palestinians and rag heads in general wanted peace, they'd stop letting extremist clerics have control of their country.
We should certainly do more than we currently are doing.
Wtf do you think keeps them in power? Countries like Iran, Syria and Saudi Arabia that fund terrorism.
So is a palest. life less important that an israeli one...thats what I seem to be getting from your post.
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