End all, be all...........why MJ > Kobe period

[jacobdrj]

The fact that people need to compare their games is amusing, and kind of sad.
Ironic that Kobe was a 'Magic Guy' as a fan, but ended up as more of a 'Jordan Guy' as a player, where as LeBron was a 'Jordan Guy' as a fan, but is playing a lot more like a 'Magic Guy'...
It's an age thing...

[JamStone]

I think LeBron plays more like Jordan, not like Magic, but without the restrictions of the triangle offense allowing him to go into iso 40-50 times a game and pile up assists. Playing more like Magic would relegate LeBron to closer to a 20 ppg scorer and have him push the ball up every single opportunity he had looking for teammates to run the transition lanes and spot up on the fastbreak. LeBron is still more of a half court one-on-one iso player, even though he will at times get in the open court. But when he's in the open court, he's much more likely to try to finish with a dunk than to pass it.

However, I will say this. He has a serious opportunity to be much more like Magic now that he's on the Miami Heat.

[jacobdrj]

I always felt that LeBron was a half court guy because of his personnel and coaches... A big part of the reason I felt LeBron needed to get away from Cleveland was to get away from big lumbering centers like Big-Z and Shaq... Z is still there, but hopefully in a bench role. I think if they get an athletic big, even without any offensive game, you will see LeBron's fast break game explode...

[SomeCallMeTim]

Fair enough, but Karl Malone wasn't exactly a defensive juggernaut. A good defender in his era of basketball. I wouldn't go so far as saying he was a great defender as you suggest. I will say this about Karl Malone's defense, he wasn't afraid to foul hard. I think that in itself helped him defensively, at least from a psychological perspective. Players would be very wary of his elbows when attacking Karl Malone.

But, defense and rebounding isn't why Karl Malone was considered the greatest power forward before Duncan got deeper into his career. It was his scoring. I'm just suggesting how his offensive ability was aided in a similar way that Amare's has been yet also criticized. It's true Amare gets criticized much more for his defense and lack of consistent rebounding, but he also gets bashed for what is perceived as not having a back-to-the-basket low post game.

I do think Karl Malone's legend is greatly tied into his durability and longevity.

Again, allow for Karl Malone's career to overlap more alongside the late 1990s to currently, while other great power forwards like Duncan, KG, Dirk, Gasol, C-Webb, and Bosh had the prime of their careers, and I don't think he'd be mentioned as one of the greatest players of all time, but for the longevity of his career and his ability to put up very good stats deep into his career. But then again, I don't think he'd have two NBA Finals appearances or either league MVP.

It's possible, but I just don't see his era or matchups making that much of a difference. You could make the same argument with Magic; put him in today's league with so many great PGs and he wouldn't be mentioned as one of the all-time greats? I don't see it.

What made Malone so great was putting up a ton of points efficiently and dominating the boards. I think you underrate his defense, too. Not to mention passing... guy just had unreal bball IQ, which really helped lengthen his career.

The numbers he put up in his Age 40 season are nothing short of amazing.

[JamStone]

The point guard position hasn't evolved the way the power forward position has, so introducing Magic Johnson as an example to refute my position is tangental and irrelevant. If anything, the NBA has evolved where a dominant point guard has less value. Magic would still have the same advantage of height in today's NBA, whereas Karl Malone would lose some of the advantages he had against his era of power forwards.

Karl Malone was very good on the boards. It's already been mentioned in this thread that so does Carlos Boozer. As for Karl Malone's defense, we'll just have to differ. I'm not saying he was bad. I'm not even saying he was average. But he wasn't a dominant defender. Let's put it this way, if Karl Malone had to go out night in and night out in the Western Conference against Duncan, KG, Amare, and Pau Gasol all in their prime versus Shawn Kemp, Cliff Robinson, Terry mings, and Chuck Person, it's simply my opinion Karl Malone wouldn't be viewed as a great defender at all.

Let me put into perspective how I think Karl Malone's offense may have been inflated due to the system he played in and the point guard he played with.

Karl Malone's career FG% is 51.6%
Karl Malone's career playoff FG% is 46.3%

In his two MVP seasons (1996-97, 1998-99), his FG% were 55.0% and 49.3%
In the playoffs of those same two seasons, his FG% were 43.5% and 41.7%

So when he faced better teams and faced teams and players that actually played better and more consistent defense, his FG% dropped sharply. People on these boards often love to talk about how great players pick up their level of play in the playoffs. As far as his offense went, while he still scored his points, the playoffs give some insight about his offense.

Let me be clear. Karl Malone was a great player. And he deserves mention among the all time greats. I just think it would be a different story if the prime of his career was played in the late 1990s through the 2000s. And I do think Utah's pick-and-roll offense and playing with Stockton definitely helped his offensive numbers.