JVG: "Miami will break the 72 win record"

[21_Blessings]

Didn't you guys think for one second that JVG was sarcastic with his comments?

I thought it was obvious he was hyping them up to fail.

You know he'd love see his brother beat the out of em in the playoffs so he could point out what a failure they were and how great a coach Stan is.

[DPG21920]

Teams with all 3 are LA and Boston, possibly Orlando.

However Orlando's problems go deeper because they have the weakest perimeter defenders of all 3 teams. Vince Carter got absolutely destroyed by Paul Pierce in the ECF. What will Wade or James do to him? Red is good for chasing Ray Allen around screens but in an isolation against Dwyane Wade he is going to be anally raped.

LA and Boston are the only teams I see with a legit chance to beat Miami. Orlando has an outside shot, but barely.

Chicago doesn't have enough two-way perimeter players nor do they have the interior defense needed. Both Korver and Brewer will be huge liabilities against a team like Miami, which is why I criticized Chicago for putting their eggs in those two's basket. If they hadn't traded Kirk "Wade-Stopper" Hinrich away, they'd be in better shape, but they did, so they're screwed.

San Antonio is not even in the conversation, they have neither the offense nor the defense to beat Miami.

Boston and LA both have frontcourt players who can take advantage of the soft interior of Miami, both have great halfcourt defenses. Allen and Pierce can make the cHeat duo work on defense. Kobe and Artest can as well. Allen/Pierce and Kobe/Artest are all good perimeter defenders as well, the main advantage they have over Orlando.

Agree or disagree with overall assessment.

I disagree with Orlando based on your criteria and with LA using Artest as an example.

But LA has enough to beat Miami (for sure as things stand today), but not for the reasons you listed specifically. It's because of their length inside and their defense. The offense you don't have to worry about, but having Bynum/Kobe/Artest/Pau plus other wing defenders Barnes will help out a lot. They also have a perfectly balanced team (I think the 3 point shooting will improve).

[picc84]

I disagree with Orlando based on your criteria and with LA using Artest as an example.

But LA has enough to beat Miami (for sure as things stand today), but not for the reasons you listed specifically. It's because of their length inside and their defense. The offense you don't have to worry about, but having Bynum/Kobe/Artest/Pau plus other wing defenders Barnes will help out a lot. They also have a perfectly balanced team (I think the 3 point shooting will improve).

You disagree with Orlando based on my criteria how? Not arguing, just curious. I didn't say they had a good chance to beat Miami, or even a decent one. Its slim. But other than Boston they are the only east team with even a slight chance. And thats still more me hoping more than anything.

I included Artest for a few reasons. One, its his second year in the triangle. Players in our system always take at least a year before they are fully comfortable and play up to their offensive potential. He is still a good offensive player, and it was mostly the nature of the system and his unfamiliarity with it that kept the team from letting him do more. Half the time he had no clue where to go or what to do.

Two, he's probably not good enough to score on Lebron consistently, but he's good enough to make him work a little and draw fouls. Phil is going to put him in the post against Bron specifically to do that. He's not going to make the shot, but he'll draw some cheap fouls and make Lebron exert some energy on D. And thats really all thats needed.

[DPG21920]

You disagree with Orlando based on my criteria how? Not arguing, just curious. I didn't say they had a good chance to beat Miami, or even a decent one. Its slim. But other than Boston they are the only east team with even a slight chance. And thats still more me hoping more than anything.

Because one of your criteria was having 2 legit offensive perimeter options and I don't feel ORL has that. Jameer and VC are decent, but not good enough to where they meet the criteria you laid out enough to have a legit shot at Miami (solely based on your criteria).

I included Artest for a few reasons. One, its his second year in the triangle. Players in our system always take at least a year before they are fully comfortable and play up to their offensive potential. He is still a good offensive player, and it was mostly the nature of the system and his unfamiliarity with it that kept the team from letting him do more. Half the time he had no clue where to go or what to do.

I don't think he is still a good offensive player. His handle is shaky, his shot has never been great and he is a volume offensive player. He can't be that on LA. He can be serviceable (obviously since they won a le with him), but again, I think he falls short based on your criteria. He might become more familiar, but his role won't change. He is not a very good offensive fit (except for his interior passing imo). But that is not a big deal.

Two, he's probably not good enough to score on Lebron consistently, but he's good enough to make him work a little and draw fouls. Phil is going to put him in the post against Bron specifically to do that. He's not going to make the shot, but he'll draw some cheap fouls and make Lebron exert some energy on D. And thats really all thats needed.

He won't score on Lebron at all, especially if they decide to post him up. Ron is terrible and clumsy in the post. He is decent at drawing fouls, but he won't out muscle Lebron. Putting Artest in the post is what most every team wants.

[DPG21920]

I think LA, as things stand today, is better than MIA. But I want to see how things play out with MIA.

[milkshakeballa]

Artest would have to make massive strides during the off-season to be a good offensive player, TBH..

Artest was shooting right around 45% from 3 pt land before he f'd up his hand IIRC. He doesn't need to be a good offensive player. All he has to do is hit the open 3 ball.

When his hand was healthy...he was.

Time will tell.

[milkshakeballa]

Because one of your criteria was having 2 legit offensive perimeter options and I don't feel ORL has that. Jameer and VC are decent, but not good enough to where they meet the criteria you laid out enough to have a legit shot at Miami (solely based on your criteria).



I don't think he is still a good offensive player. His handle is shaky, his shot has never been great and he is a volume offensive player. He can't be that on LA. He can be serviceable (obviously since they won a le with him), but again, I think he falls short based on your criteria. He might become more familiar, but his role won't change. He is not a very good offensive fit (except for his interior passing imo). But that is not a big deal.



He won't score on Lebron at all, especially if they decide to post him up. Ron is terrible and clumsy in the post. He is decent at drawing fouls, but he won't out muscle Lebron. Putting Artest in the post is what most every team wants.

Good post DPG. As I said previously though, all LA needs from Ron is to hit the open 3 ball. He was in the mid 40%'s when his hand was healthy.

And Ron WILL make Bron work on defense. The guy is a tank. Just playing against Ron for 35 minutes a night will take its toll on ANYBODY.

As a Laker fan I hope we can get minimum offensive contributions from Ron and still beat the Heat. I think its possible...

[SomeCallMeTim]

Artest was shooting right around 45% from 3 pt land before he f'd up his hand IIRC. He doesn't need to be a good offensive player. All he has to do is hit the open 3 ball.

When his hand was healthy...he was.

Time will tell.

I think he peaked at about 40%. You are right, he got hurt and his 3pt% took a nosedive. I kept waiting for it to return when he got healthy.

It never did.

Still somewhat amazing they were able to win a le with him playing so poorly on the offensive end. Fisher reintegrating into something of a useful scorer in the POs had a lot to do with that.

I hope Artest will find the range again this year. If it was truly an injury issue, then he likely will. His 3pt accuracy was steady for several years before 2010. My worry is it is more an age/head issue.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Good post DPG. As I said previously though, all LA needs from Ron is to hit the open 3 ball. He was in the mid 40%'s when his hand was healthy.

And Ron WILL make Bron work on defense. The guy is a tank. Just playing against Ron for 35 minutes a night will take its toll on ANYBODY.

As a Laker fan I hope we can get minimum offensive contributions from Ron and still beat the Heat. I think its possible...

Lakers now have options at 3 where before it was either throw Luke or (shiver) Odom out there... or shift Kobe to the 3 and have Brown or Sasha fill the 2.

I don't have to tell you that would be an unmitigated disaster vs. a team like Miami.

With Barnes, they have not only a legit backup for Artest but an option if his offense is dragging the team down and they need someone who could better space the floor.

[milkshakeballa]

I think he peaked at about 40%. You are right, he got hurt and his 3pt% took a nosedive. I kept waiting for it to return when he got healthy.

It never did.

Still somewhat amazing they were able to win a le with him playing so poorly on the offensive end. Fisher reintegrating into something of a useful scorer in the POs had a lot to do with that.

I hope Artest will find the range again this year. If it was truly an injury issue, then he likely will. His 3pt accuracy was steady for several years before 2010. My worry is it is more an age/head issue.

Agreed. As a team I think there is no question the team cannot count on Ron to produce much on O. I think they will get steady contributions form Barnes in his minutes from the 3.


I am really interested to see who closes out games this year in crunch time. Fish or Blake?

If Fish declines the same amount this year as he did from 08 to 09...he is going to be historically bad. I think the Lakers with Blake though can REALLY limit his minutes and keep him fresh for the playoffs then Phil can go game by game matchup by matchup..

[milkshakeballa]

Lakers now have options at 3 where before it was either throw Luke or (shiver) Odom out there... or shift Kobe to the 3 and have Brown or Sasha fill the 2.

I don't have to tell you that would be an unmitigated disaster vs. a team like Miami.

With Barnes, they have not only a legit backup for Artest but an option if his offense is dragging the team down and they need someone who could better space the floor.

LOL see my post right after you. Agreed. Barnes is the most underrated pickup so far this offseason in my eyes.

Mitch gets an A from me for this offseason.

[picc84]

Because one of your criteria was having 2 legit offensive perimeter options and I don't feel ORL has that. Jameer and VC are decent, but not good enough to where they meet the criteria you laid out enough to have a legit shot at Miami (solely based on your criteria).

I agree. Which is why I stipulated 'possibly'. I don't think Jameer is relevant here, despite being Orlando's best perimeter option, because neither Wade nor Lebron would be guarding him. One of them would be on Vince, the other on....Red , or Pietrus I guess. Neither of those two is going to make either Wade or James work. They'll be in a corner waiting for a kickout, and Wade/James will be just waiting around for Dwight to make his move.

I don't think he is still a good offensive player. His handle is shaky, his shot has never been great and he is a volume offensive player. He can't be that on LA. He can be serviceable (obviously since they won a le with him), but again, I think he falls short based on your criteria. He might become more familiar, but his role won't change. He is not a very good offensive fit (except for his interior passing imo). But that is not a big deal.

All I meant was that a team has to have two perimeter guys who can do more than spot up and shoot, allowing one of Miami's guys to either stand around or just roam. Ronnie isn't a great offensive player by any means, but the mere fact that Lebron will have to actually play some defense from time to time is an advantage over other teams who don't have that.

He won't score on Lebron at all, especially if they decide to post him up. Ron is terrible and clumsy in the post. He is decent at drawing fouls, but he won't out muscle Lebron. Putting Artest in the post is what most every team wants.

He won't outmuscle Bron, and won't score on him at a decent clip, but if the chosen one spends 4 more minutes a game on the bench because he drew a couple cheap fouls while Artest was posting up, thats a leg up on other teams.

[Killakobe81]

Artest did struggle some but everytime we needed him to come through he did ...

[MiamiHeat]

Boston losing their starting Center in the 1st quarter of Game 6 up 3-2 had a bigger role to play in LA winning than anything Ron did.

[Dunc n Dave]

Boston losing their starting Center in the 1st quarter of Game 6 up 3-2 had a bigger role to play in LA winning than anything Ron did.

Definitely had a HUGE effect on the outcome. Just look at the ridiculous # of boards the Lakers got in Game 7. That's what happens when you have to rely on a lazy Rasheed to grab rebounds for you. He was playing inspired on the offensive end, but not on the boards.

[dbreiden83080]

He doesn't need to be Duncan. He's the 3rd option behind Lebron and Wade.

No but to say they are gonna win 70 games and the le Bosh better be great next year.. People seem to be overating him..

[milkshakeballa]

Definitely had a HUGE effect on the outcome. Just look at the ridiculous # of boards the Lakers got in Game 7. That's what happens when you have to rely on a lazy Rasheed to grab rebounds for you. He was playing inspired on the offensive end, but not on the boards.

IIRC Boston played better ALL SERIES with Perkins on the bench.

I was hoping Perkins WOULD NOT pick up his 7th tech.

Sheed spread the floor for them.

[himat]

Perkins injury excuse is one of the lamest injury excuses because Lakers played with an injured Andrew Bynum for all 7 games of the series and because Rasheed played a of a Game 7. At times he was the only calm player on the floor offensively with his multiple low post bank shots. And he also gave LA a big scare by hitting a 3 with 1 minute to go to make it a 1 possession game.

[Killakobe81]

Perkins injury excuse is one of the lamest injury excuses because Lakers played with an injured Andrew Bynum for all 7 games of the series and because Rasheed played a of a Game 7. At times he was the only calm player on the floor offensively with his multiple low post bank shots. And he also gave LA a big scare by hitting a 3 with 1 minute to go to make it a 1 possession game.

There you go bringing facts and reasoning to an NBA forum! LOL

Rasheed spread the floor, allowing driving lanes for Rondo
Rasheed hit deep jumpers over Bynum t
Took Odom on the block ...

With artest locking up Pierce, Rondo/Alllen unable to shoot and Ray hot and cold ...

Celts best offense was KG's baseline turn-around and Rasheed

He did suck on the boards though ...

[picc84]

I wanted Perkins on the floor so Sheed would be off it.

Any Celtic fan crying about Perk with Sheed's performance and Bynum deserves to be shot.

[poop]

the 33 straight will never be beaten

[Ari Gold]

lulz.

[jeebus]

lulz.

[Killakobe81]

the 33 straight will never be beaten

To win 72, they will NEED a 33 straight run ... LOL

[HarlemHeat37]

"Easily" was obviously shtick hyperbole, but it looks like I might not be posting here after June(although right now, it doesn't count, since Mike Miller is out)..