Are the Spurs still contenders?

[TD 21]

Do I really have to say "in my opinion" or "IMHO" everytime? It should be fairly obvious that I am giving my opinion. There is no more reason to believe that the Phoenix series will have a positive or negative bearing on how the Spurs will perform this season. That is my opinion.

Here's the thing about the logic based on "the Suns swept the Spurs, so how can the Spurs possibly beat the Lakers?" that the vast majority fail to realize: The season before last, the Suns missed the playoffs altogether. Granted, Stoudemire was injured down the stretch, but even with him healthy for most of the season they were a fringe playoff team destined to finish 8th or 9th. One season later, without, on paper at least, any significant additions, they were in the Conference Finals and gave the Lakers a fairly good run.

Who's more likely to do that: This Spurs team, or that Suns team from a season ago? I'd say this Spurs team. So if the Suns of a season ago could do it, then why couldn't this Spurs team?

It is my opinion that the Spurs will be better. I am backing up that opinion with the following: Tiago Splitter, while not a "Pau level player", IS a legit big that the Spurs did not have last season. I feel that, even at the lowest of expectations that he will provide a significant presence to the frontline and take a good amount of pressure off of Duncan. Also, that Duncan, Ginobili and Parker will be in good health to start the season should be a huge factor. If the Spurs can get off to a good start, the rest of the season should not be the uphill struggle it was last season. Parker is also in a contract year and I expect a resemblance to his All-Star form. I also expect Blair, Hill and Jefferson to improve. There is no reason to think that they will not. I expect Bonner to play less and be used, mostly, in situational/match-up manner. I expect less small ball.
Most importantly, there are no "wily veterans" like Bogans/Finley/Mason on the squad for Pop to fall back on when things get rough. He will be forced to go to Anderson/Gee/Neal who can only get better with real PT. I mean, that was the bone of contention with Pop's at ude toward Hairston and Mahinmi last year, right?

Exactly. Even if statistically he's underwhelming, the mere presence of having a guy who's 6-11 and mobile, with a developed understanding of the game, will make a difference. Maybe not enough to propel this team to a championship, but they will be better. I don't care whether he's played a game in the NBA yet, how could he not be an improvement defensively over Blair, who was the backup center last season?

Too soon to say. I still think Hayes will be signed in the next two weeks.

It is no more obvious for you than it is for me. It is your perception that I am stating things that I feel are obviously opinions as fact. The problem is yours, not mine. We are not going to agree on RJ. We've been over this countless times. You believe the situation is hopeless and I do not. I also do not agree that last season is any indication, or gives concrete insight on how this season will pan out. How many times have you seen a team fail in the playoffs only to see an better result the next without adding an all-star level (although you could argue for Parker) player?

Pop gave up by choosing Bogans/Bonner/Mason when they weren't working, rather than take a chance on Hairston/Mahinmi/Temple. Duncan didn't physically give up, but I have never seen him so psychologically defeated and exasperated as he was last season. I don't believe the system has to change significantly to incorporate RJ. I think most of his issues were mental and are easily fixed with his understanding of the system and confidence being raised. Call me crazy, but I believe the Spurs are one of 5 teams that has a legit shot to win a championship. Are the odds stacked against them? Sure, they are.

Again, just my opinion.

Again, your perception. That just didn't happen. I can have a difference of opinion with someone without you interpreting that as me stating facts. At least, I should be able to . . . I have defended my opinion with the same level of logic as anyone else and just because it doesn't jive with your's does not make it less valuable. Believe me, I view some of the things you say as ridiculous as you probably view mine . . . That's just how it goes sometimes, dude.

In my opinion.

I got a question. Is this all in your opinion? Because if that's not written every couple of lines, I can't possibly decipher whether it's in your opinion, someone else's opinion or whether you're attempting to pass it off as fact.

[HarlemHeat37]

TBH, if Bynum isn't healthy, which is pretty much a given, then it wouldn't be that surprising to see some of the teams in the West, including the Spurs, beat LA, if everything goes right for the team in question..

The problem here is that the Spurs would have very little chance of beating Miami IMO..

The Spurs don't even have 1 decent 1 on 1 perimeter defender right now(Manu is when he doesn't have as much offensive responsibility, but he will have to), so expecting them to guard the 2 best players in the NBA in their primes is very unrealistic IMO..

[ohmwrecker]

The problem here is that the Spurs would have very little chance of beating Miami IMO..

Does anyone have a chance of beating Miami . . . in your opinion?

[Man In Black]

TBH, if Bynum isn't healthy, which is pretty much a given, then it wouldn't be that surprising to see some of the teams in the West, including the Spurs, beat LA, if everything goes right for the team in question..

The problem here is that the Spurs would have very little chance of beating Miami IMO..

The Spurs don't even have 1 decent 1 on 1 perimeter defender right now(Manu is when he doesn't have as much offensive responsibility, but he will have to), so expecting them to guard the 2 best players in the NBA in their primes is very unrealistic IMO..

MIA outside of Bosh, doesn't have any real quality bigs. They have length in Ilgauskas, undersized youth in Anthony & Haslem, but that doesn't seem to daunting. That alone would kill them unless you think the refs will give Wade & James an all-day pass to the FT line.

[picc84]

TBH, if Bynum isn't healthy, which is pretty much a given, then it wouldn't be that surprising to see some of the teams in the West, including the Spurs, beat LA, if everything goes right for the team in question..

The problem here is that the Spurs would have very little chance of beating Miami IMO..

The Spurs don't even have 1 decent 1 on 1 perimeter defender right now(Manu is when he doesn't have as much offensive responsibility, but he will have to), so expecting them to guard the 2 best players in the NBA in their primes is very unrealistic IMO..

Disagree with the first part of your post, but the 2nd is true.

To the person who posted the stats of Manu h2h with Wade, the playoffs are a different story. Manu may match Wade's output in 2 games of a 7 game series, at most. Add in to that the loss of Bowen, and you have Ginobili and Jefferson guarding Lebron and Wade, with a slow Duncan in the middle patrolling the paint. The Heat are going to destroy the Spurs, more than the Lakers would.

Saying that, with the way the west has gotten weaker, I expect SA to compete for a spot in the WCF. Melo will be gone, the Suns will have a major drop off with Hedo from Amare, I think the Spurs take the Mavs in a series should they meet again. Houston would be right there but who knows what will happen with Yao.

The Thunder will be the main compe ion to make the west finals against LA. Perhaps the Blazers as a wildcard. That's 3 contenders for the WCF, but I don't see any of them getting past an LA thats anywhere near healthy.

[LakeShow]

See, this is where you and I differ. You think it'll take another superstar. I disagree. I know it will take is stronger post help and better defensive effort on the wings. Since the Spurs can't work the Grizz for the other Gasol via collusion, I expect that bringing in the best big outside of the NBA, in Splitter to bring huge dividends. Health, and strong balanced play are the most key thing for this Spurs team.

Also... I just wanted to point out the following 2 stats:
Tim Duncan Points Created:
2008-2009 2678 Positives - 949.5 Negatives = 1728.5 PC TOTAL / 2523 Minutes Played = .685 or / 75 Games Played = 23.05
2009-2010 2591 Positives - 840 Negatives = 1751 PC TOTAL / 2438 Minutes Played = .718 or / 78 Games Played = 22.45
So comparing Tim's last 2 seasons, this past season, a season many of you haters say his production tailed off, well - Stats tell us that he actually played better per minute he was on court and stayed almost as effective on a per game basis.

Pau Gasol Points Created:
2008-2009 2725 Positives - 792 Negatives = 1933 PC TOTAL / 2999 Minutes Played = .645 or / 81 Games Played = 23.86
2009-2010 2292 Positives - 687 Negatives = 1605 PC TOTAL / 2403 Minutes Played = .668 or / 65 Games Played = 24.69
Compared to Pau Gasol, Tim isn't that far off from him. Playing better per minute overall and again almost as effective on a per game basis.

It's not an everything stat, just like PER, there isn't a way to quantify position defense or shots affected by length, both of these guys are good at that. However, it's a level playing field and the stats ac ulated are what they are.

So when people say that Tim has nothing left in the tank, I counter with, if that's the case...then why are his scores so similar to Gasol?

It is pretty obvious that Timmie no longer has the hops nor does he have the ability to defend the paint adequately.

Parker and Ginosbli have been handled by the lakers in the past and last time I checked the Lakers added even more defenders to shut those players down.

As far as Splitter being a savior. Forget about it. From what I've seen of him he will be pushed around like a rag doll early in his career in the NBA. Don't expect much from him this season. Maybe in a few years he'll toughen up but for right now he wont be much of a factor against the Lakers.

[Man In Black]

It is pretty obvious that Timmie no longer has the hops nor does he have the ability to defend the paint adequately.

Parker and Ginosbli have been handled by the lakers in the past and last time I checked the Lakers added even more defenders to shut those players down.

As far as Splitter being a savior. Forget about it. From what I've seen of him he will be pushed around like a rag doll early in his career in the NBA. Don't expect much from him this season. Maybe in a few years he'll toughen up but for right now he wont be much of a factor against the Lakers.

There you go with that past tense that you're wont to do. Let me rephrase your own post to make my point more clearly.

It is pretty obvious that Timmy no longer has the hops but with continued improvement from DeJuan Blair, the contributions of the best Bigman in Europe, and a re-focused Antonio McDyess, he does have the ability to defend the paint adequately because with that kind of help, he actually works less harder.

Parker and an Injured Ginobili have been handled by the Lakers in the past and last time I checked the Lakers have added possible defenders who could attempt to shut these guys down. A fast PG is still DFish's kryptonite. And don't tell me Steve Blake is an ALL-NBA Defender because you'd be lying. Matt Barnes is almost as cuckoo as Artest. It may work, but then again, he could be tossed off the court with but a mean look.

As far as Splitter being a savior. it could happen. Lakers fan hope that he's not. Forget about it. From what I've seen of him he will be pushed around like a rag doll early in his career in the NBA but he could be a quick learner and then who knows?.Most fans don't expect much from him this season. Then again, if Tiago Splitter was a Laker, he'd be the reason to get rid of often injured Andrew Bynum. I mean a big guy with a solid back to the basket game is hard to find. I expect in a Maybe in a few years he'll toughen up but for right now he wont be much of a factor against the Lakers.

See...you can twist it any way you want it. We hope for success against the P & G, you hope that S & B goes away. The fact that either could happen is what makes the season worth watching.

[mingus]

the Laker's record of 2-2 last year agains the Spurs does saya absolutely nothing about their "dominance" over the Spurs. neither does their struggles against OKC, whom the Spurs were 3-1 against last season, or their struggles with Boston, who the Spurs beat in Boston without Parker.

lol @ LA fans wanting the Spurs to "go away." LA hasn't dominated anybody of import in the playoffs. in fact teams have pushed them to their limits - teams that the Spurs are arguably better than. i don't know what makes anyone think the Spurs want do the same or actually beat them, esp. since the Spurs have the know how to do it.

some of you LA fans are grasping at straws with your statements. they're not even arguments. there's no support for any of them. why? because there is no evidence to back of your far-fetched claims. at least try to bull something though. i'd give you your due for effort.

[LakeShow]

There you go with that past tense that you're wont to do. Let me rephrase your own post to make my point more clearly.

It is pretty obvious that Timmy no longer has the hops but with continued improvement from DeJuan Blair, the contributions of the best Bigman in Europe, and a re-focused Antonio McDyess, he does have the ability to defend the paint adequately because with that kind of help, he actually works less harder.

Parker and an Injured Ginobili have been handled by the Lakers in the past and last time I checked the Lakers have added possible defenders who could attempt to shut these guys down. A fast PG is still DFish's kryptonite. And don't tell me Steve Blake is an ALL-NBA Defender because you'd be lying. Matt Barnes is almost as cuckoo as Artest. It may work, but then again, he could be tossed off the court with but a mean look.

As far as Splitter being a savior. it could happen. Lakers fan hope that he's not. Forget about it. From what I've seen of him he will be pushed around like a rag doll early in his career in the NBA but he could be a quick learner and then who knows?.Most fans don't expect much from him this season. Then again, if Tiago Splitter was a Laker, he'd be the reason to get rid of often injured Andrew Bynum. I mean a big guy with a solid back to the basket game is hard to find. I expect in a Maybe in a few years he'll toughen up but for right now he wont be much of a factor against the Lakers.

See...you can twist it any way you want it. We hope for success against the P & G, you hope that S & B goes away. The fact that either could happen is what makes the season worth watching.

my comment was more to the point. REalistic point! Believe me, I don't know a lakers fan who is worried about the spurs. Spurs fans feel relevant thinking that they do. Imo the spurs window is closed tight.

[LakeShow]

the Laker's record of 2-2 last year agains the Spurs does saya absolutely nothing about their "dominance" over the Spurs. neither does their struggles against OKC, whom the Spurs were 3-1 against last season, or their struggles with Boston, who the Spurs beat in Boston without Parker.

lol @ LA fans wanting the Spurs to "go away." LA hasn't dominated anybody of import in the playoffs. in fact teams have pushed them to their limits - teams that the Spurs are arguably better than. i don't know what makes anyone think the Spurs want do the same or actually beat them, esp. since the Spurs have the know how to do it.

some of you LA fans are grasping at straws with your statements. they're not even arguments. there's no support for any of them. why? because there is no evidence to back of your far-fetched claims. at least try to bull something though. i'd give you your due for effort.

Once a proud franchise, now a franchise that takes satisfaction with regular season wins. How the mighty have fallen. lol What are the Lakers and Spurs records in the playoffs? Yeah, thought so.

[Man In Black]

my comment was more to the point. REalistic point! Believe me, I don't know a lakers fan who is worried about the spurs. Spurs fans feel relevant thinking that they do. Imo the spurs window is closed tight.

Of course you don't know a LAL Fan worried about the Spurs too much. You guys are too busy doing this in a padded cell.

[LakeShow]

Of course you don't know a LAL Fan worried about the Spurs too much. You guys are too busy doing this in a padded cell.

and watching our team collect these,

[DPG21920]

Do I really have to say "in my opinion" or "IMHO" everytime? It should be fairly obvious that I am giving my opinion. There is no more reason to believe that the Phoenix series will have a positive or negative bearing on how the Spurs will perform this season. That is my opinion.

Again, missing the point. I know you are stating your opinion. My beef is that you are stating your opinion seemingly as fact and I asked you to justify your opinion.

You make it seem like things are very obvious (implied simple truths), such as saying RJ needs "minor tweaks and things will just fall in line with him". Where do you get this from? What changes does he need to make and why will things just fall into place?

No, the Phoenix series has no impact on how they will perform, but it gives us a gauge on the quality of the team from a true contender standpoint. Getting swept, and bringing back the same team plus rookies is not a recipe for le or true contention in most people's eyes. Do I think they will be better? Yes.

But you did not say that. You stated your strong opinion that they "will be very much improved, enough to be true contenders". That is more than just an opinion and I asked you to justify that thought. Those statements, while maybe an opinion, are spoken more matter-of-factly as if it is a foregone conclusion.

It is my opinion that the Spurs will be better. I am backing up that opinion with the following: Tiago Splitter, while not a "Pau level player", IS a legit big that the Spurs did not have last season. I feel that, even at the lowest of expectations that he will provide a significant presence to the frontline and take a good amount of pressure off of Duncan. Also, that Duncan, Ginobili and Parker will be in good health to start the season should be a huge factor. If the Spurs can get off to a good start, the rest of the season should not be the uphill struggle it was last season. Parker is also in a contract year and I expect a resemblance to his All-Star form. I also expect Blair, Hill and Jefferson to improve. There is no reason to think that they will not. I expect Bonner to play less and be used, mostly, in situational/match-up manner. I expect less small ball.
Most importantly, there are no "wily veterans" like Bogans/Finley/Mason on the squad for Pop to fall back on when things get rough. He will be forced to go to Anderson/Gee/Neal who can only get better with real PT. I mean, that was the bone of contention with Pop's at ude toward Hairston and Mahinmi last year, right?

It is not illogical to think that Tiago will help, I think that, but there are some questions that need to be answered about how his game will transfer (see the ARG/BRA game where Oberto pushed him around). That combined with the fact that Pop has to rely on unproven rookies with huge question marks surrounding their game (Gee & Neal especially) means that it is not very reasonable to assume the Spurs have done enough to be true contenders. Could they end up that way? Yes. Does that mean it makes sense to state that matter-of-factly now? No.

With regards to my thoughts on Pop last year, that was under different cir stances. I wanted him to play the young guys after we knew the Spurs were not true contenders. You are using unknowns to make an argument for contention and framing your opinions around that. I used them as a "lets see what we have because we are not contending" when I had the benefit of seeing the on court product (Bogans & Mason) failing.

How so? Yes. TP was injured . . . so was Manu . . . remember the huge bandage swathed across his face? Duncan just ran out of gas and he took big shots to his bum knee in the Mavs and Suns series. What's your point? In that situation I didn't expect them to win. I was disappointed, sure, but I didn't really expect a different result. The point is, if the big three are not performing close to 100%, you can't expect the role players and the bench to carry a series. No team in the league is going to win a playoff series in that kind of scenario. The Spurs just got their ass whipped, plain and simple . . . it happens, pick yourselves up and move on. Use it as motivation. That's what professionals do. Why should that have any negative effect on this season?

You don't expect them to win, and even though they were hurt, the big 3 did enough to not get swept. If the other players (15M man & Bonner & others) showed up, it would have been more compe ive. RJ was supposed to be a part of the Big 4, so quit passing all responsibility off of him.

But that is not the main point of that series. The series itself means nothing with how the games are played this year, but it is a barometer on where the Spurs stand if their goal is to win a le; which most assume is their goal.

That series showed that you can't really count on the Big 3 as much as you used to. They are still great, but they need more help. That was RJ's job and he failed. Knowing that, the Spurs had to make some significant moves in order to contend. I understand they were limited, and I am ok with that, but don't sell the very mediocre moves (if it was not for Tiago's great contract, this would have been a disaster of an off season between RJ & Bonner) as enough. There is no logical argument for it at this point. Sure, Duncan's knees could magically hold up. Sure, RJ's lateral quickness could return and he could develop a good 3 PT shot. Sure, Manu could play hard and not get injured. Are those things likely? Probably not. There are definitely going to be some bumpy moments with the big 3 if the last few seasons are an indicator.

It is no more obvious for you than it is for me. It is your perception that I am stating things that I feel are obviously opinions as fact. The problem is yours, not mine. We are not going to agree on RJ. We've been over this countless times. You believe the situation is hopeless and I do not. I also do not agree that last season is any indication, or gives concrete insight on how this season will pan out. How many times have you seen a team fail in the playoffs only to see an better result the next without adding an all-star level (although you could argue for Parker) player?

It's not a problem. It is an observation. It is your problem that you are stating things matter-of-factly as if they will very obviously fall into place, when the logic really does not say so.

I don't think the RJ situation is hopeless. I think he can improve on some things. But I don't think the things the Spurs really need (an aggressive, above average perimeter defender that has a very good 3 PT shot) are going to magically appear in RJ's game because he either does not have the physical ability and/or he has never had the ability.

Ummmmmm, I have not seen many teams fail in the playoffs (get swept), then add some rookies and no all-star talent then vault themselves into true contender status. Can you name some?

Pop gave up by choosing Bogans/Bonner/Mason when they weren't working, rather than take a chance on Hairston/Mahinmi/Temple. Duncan didn't physically give up, but I have never seen him so psychologically defeated and exasperated as he was last season. I don't believe the system has to change significantly to incorporate RJ. I think most of his issues were mental and are easily fixed with his understanding of the system and confidence being raised. Call me crazy, but I believe the Spurs are one of 5 teams that has a legit shot to win a championship. Are the odds stacked against them? Sure, they are.

Again, just my opinion.

I think you can argue the exact opposite. I can't believe you are saying Pop and Tim gave up in any way shape or form. There is literally nothing to back that up. Sticking with Bogans/Bonner/Mason was Pop not giving up and realizing the team had no shot. Putting Malik/Ian/Temple in would have been a white flag. He said I am not doing that and I am going to stick with the only thing that has enough upside to make a run.

I wanted Ian & Malik, but not seeing them was Pop not giving up, not the other way around.

RJ's 3PT shooting (he had one year that was good and it appears to be an outlier) & lack of lateral speed problems were mental?

Your 5 teams are (I think): MIA, LA, BOS, SA & ???. If you can argue SA (based on the logic you are using), how can you not argue OKC, UTA, ORL and a few other teams?

Again, your perception. That just didn't happen. I can have a difference of opinion with someone without you interpreting that as me stating facts. At least, I should be able to . . . I have defended my opinion with the same level of logic as anyone else and just because it doesn't jive with your's does not make it less valuable. Believe me, I view some of the things you say as ridiculous as you probably view mine . . . That's just how it goes sometimes, dude.

In my opinion.

Like I said, I know this is all opinion, most of the time that is implied, but when you go around saying things like the team is dramatically improved and things will easily fall in line for RJ, that goes beyond just your standard opinion. That seems like something that you think is going to happen quite surely, when that does not appear to be the case at all.

[2Cleva]

It's really simple.

SA has no exploitable advantage over LA. Best they have is Tony Parker (who isn't as quick as he used to) and LA always shuts him down in the 2nd half and scoring PGs have never beat LA in a series. Speed gives them trouble in the open court but not in the half-court playoff setting.

No where else does SA have the edge. Not in experience. Not in chemistry. Not inside play. Not in perimeter play. Not on defense. Not on offense. Not coaching. Not in talent. Not in depth or bench.

A homer's eye may give SA a nod or equal at any of those but most objective wouldn't. Only the trio in Miami and Boston prevents this season from being a forgone conclusion, injuries not withstanding.

All teams being healthy and the West is a lock. In the past 3 years only one WC team pushed them to the limit and that was thanks to being 2 different teams in the same series.

[DeadlyDynasty]

if they had scola they'd be contenders

[ElNono]

Not contenders, IMO. I think we're a lock to make the playoffs if healthy, but first/second round fodder, depending on the opposition.

[Man In Black]

It's really simple.

No it's not. It's perceived as simple, but time and again, we've seen the simplicity get thrown out the window. Don't you LAL fans remember 2004 and the ass-kicking the Pistons gave the Lakers then? Those Lakers were penciled in as champions. But eventually eliminated in a 4-1 drubbing.

SA has no exploitable advantage over LA. Best they have is Tony Parker (who isn't as quick as he used to) and LA always shuts him down in the 2nd half and scoring PGs have never beat LA in a series.

Tony Parker should be well rested this season, 1st time ever he hasn't competed for National Team Play. It's the same thing Gasol is doing and like Gasol, Parker is expected to be at his level best this entire season. You can't say he isn't as quick as he used to be, that has yet to be quantified. All you can say is that to you, he doesn't seem to be. But, you could be very wrong on this.

Speed gives them trouble in the open court but not in the half-court playoff setting.

No where else does SA have the edge. Not in experience. Not in chemistry. Not inside play. Not in perimeter play. Not on defense. Not on offense. Not coaching. Not in talent. Not in depth or bench.

Say this stuff over and over. BIG ING DEAL. There are a lot more Davids than there are Goliaths. Do I need to point out that the Lakers haven't won every le in history? The LAL had all that same you point out up there against Detroit in 2004. So to say that that gets the W already penciled in, is wrong. The season needs to be played. Why you guys act like other teams fans need to prostrate themselves in the presence of Purple & Gold bourgeoisie is beyond me. Fact, the Spurs and their fans are going to make sure that you guys earn it, to get past them...it will require a full pitch battle.

A homer's eye may give SA a nod or equal at any of those but most objective wouldn't.

Does objective mean Laker or Heat Fan?

Only the trio in Miami and Boston prevents this season from being a forgone conclusion, injuries not withstanding.

Why is Boston considered such a threat when, if one analyzes the way a team is built, San Antonio and Boston are eerily similar except that San Antonio's best big is not dragging 1 leg with a hitch like Boston's best big. They have a quick PG in Rondo who passes better but shoots worse than TP does. They have a robust, undersized big in Davis. The Spurs counter with their own undertall hulk in Blair. A scoring wing in Pierce who finds a way to score, just like the Spurs have a scoring wing in Manu who finds a way to make plays. While Perkins is a physical post player, the combination of Splitter and McDyess aren't going to just wilt at the sight of him or any LAL big. Expect them to fight, because that's what they do.

All teams being healthy and the West is a lock.

No, it's not a lock. This holding of the LOB ends at 2. There will be no 2nd 3peat for Bean and no 4th 3peat for PJax. Book it. There will be a DAVID standing on top of the podium at the end of the season.

In the past 3 years only one WC team pushed them to the limit and that was thanks to being 2 different teams in the same series.

I can't wait for both the Spurs and Lakers to come in healthy. Rather than talk about it as being impossible, why don't you just let them play and see what happens. You could be right....but I assure you, we're going to light into you guys so hard if you are wrong, and that's a possibility.

Remember, there are more Davids than Goliaths!

[Brazil]

Some spurs fans are expecting too much of Splitter or Anderson, I don't see them making such a difference next season.
There is nothing right now that can question LAL dominance in the west.

Nevertheless like MIB said games are here to be played, spurs are now on the wrong side of their run but it would be a mistake to consider we have no shot at all. A team with duncan even an old duncan will always have a shot.

[2Cleva]

No it's not. It's perceived as simple, but time and again, we've seen the simplicity get thrown out the window. Don't you LAL fans remember 2004 and the ass-kicking the Pistons gave the Lakers then? Those Lakers were penciled in as champions. But eventually eliminated in a 4-1 drubbing.

That team was just put together and had obvious major chemistry issues. This team's core has been humming along and locked up the West the past 3 seasons. Also note - even a younger Spurs teams couldn't beat LA in 04 - no way they do in 11.

Tony Parker should be well rested this season, 1st time ever he hasn't competed for National Team Play. It's the same thing Gasol is doing and like Gasol, Parker is expected to be at his level best this entire season. You can't say he isn't as quick as he used to be, that has yet to be quantified. All you can say is that to you, he doesn't seem to be. But, you could be very wrong on this.

Parker should be rested - fine. As you said Pau and Kobe will be as well. But Kobe and Pau are focused on the 3-peat. Every word about Parker is he's focused on NY and worried about Hill keeping his spot.

Say this stuff over and over. BIG ING DEAL. There are a lot more Davids than there are Goliaths. Do I need to point out that the Lakers haven't won every le in history? The LAL had all that same you point out up there against Detroit in 2004. So to say that that gets the W already penciled in, is wrong. The season needs to be played. Why you guys act like other teams fans need to prostrate themselves in the presence of Purple & Gold bourgeoisie is beyond me. Fact, the Spurs and their fans are going to make sure that you guys earn it, to get past them...it will require a full pitch battle.

I won't disrespect you or Spurs fans spirit. And no LA hasn't won every one but when its going good (and it has never been going better than now) they milk it for all its worth.

Does objective mean Laker or Heat Fan?

No objective is recognizing who by far has the most talent and on paper looks the best together. Still has to be played.

Why is Boston considered such a threat when, if one analyzes the way a team is built, San Antonio and Boston are eerily similar except that San Antonio's best big is not dragging 1 leg with a hitch like Boston's best big. They have a quick PG in Rondo who passes better but shoots worse than TP does. They have a robust, undersized big in Davis. The Spurs counter with their own undertall hulk in Blair. A scoring wing in Pierce who finds a way to score, just like the Spurs have a scoring wing in Manu who finds a way to make plays. While Perkins is a physical post player, the combination of Splitter and McDyess aren't going to just wilt at the sight of him or any LAL big. Expect them to fight, because that's what they do.

Boston plays tough defense at every position. Their iden y now is what SA's USED to be. SA is a half-court offensive team now (lone exception is Tony Parker) like the old Utah Jazz teams that went ringless.

No, it's not a lock. This holding of the LOB ends at 2. There will be no 2nd 3peat for Bean and no 4th 3peat for PJax. Book it. There will be a DAVID standing on top of the podium at the end of the season.

Considering Kobe has done it once before and Phil has hit the threesome 3 times before, history says LA is ready to put every David in his place.

I can't wait for both the Spurs and Lakers to come in healthy. Rather than talk about it as being impossible, why don't you just let them play and see what happens. You could be right....but I assure you, we're going to light into you guys so hard if you are wrong, and that's a possibility.

Remember, there are more Davids than Goliaths!

When has the last time SA been fully healthy deep in the playoffs? I'm not worried about LA - if they can get on the court they have proven they can gut it out. Pop is doing all he can to make sure SA has some slingshot ammo left but keeps coming up short. Unless the big 3 are sitting out for weeks at a time, they won't make it to the finish line again.

[2Cleva]

04 Lakers lost because a team with better group of bigs, defense, and chemistry beat them. LA was basically out-toughened.

Now LA is the toughest team in the league. LA has the best group of bigs and best chemistry in the league. LA also has one of the best defensive teams.

LA's weaknesses then and in 08 are all now strengths but they still have all the same strengths as before on offense and coaching and execution.

Yeah, I'm feeling real good about the chances of getting back and nothing has happened in the West to change that.

[BadOdor]

Contenders to make it to the second round. At most, WCF.

[Man In Black]

04 Lakers lost because a team with better group of bigs, defense, and chemistry beat them. LA was basically out-toughened.

Now LA is the toughest team in the league. LA has the best group of bigs and best chemistry in the league. LA also has one of the best defensive teams.

LA's weaknesses then and in 08 are all now strengths but they still have all the same strengths as before on offense and coaching and execution.

Yeah, I'm feeling real good about the chances of getting back and nothing has happened in the West to change that.

You say all that, but then I remind you. Your team had to win a game 7. And Boston losing Perkins in Game 6 helped your cause immensely. Had your team had lost that series, would you be saying what you're saying now? Or are you basking in the media afterglow listening to day-after-day media once again penciling a 3peat? It hasn't happened and I'm telling you man...David will slay Goliath yet again this season!

[2Cleva]

You say all that, but then I remind you. Your team had to win a game 7. And Boston losing Perkins in Game 6 helped your cause immensely. Had your team had lost that series, would you be saying what you're saying now? Or are you basking in the media afterglow listening to day-after-day media once again penciling a 3peat? It hasn't happened and I'm telling you man...David will slay Goliath yet again this season!

Boston got to a game 7 thanks to their defense and willingness to play grinding/gutter basketball. They also went on the most hottest and improbable streak in NBA history - considering who they went through to get to the Finals.

There was 1 time after LA beat Orlando that I had doubts LA wouldn't repeat - when they were down by 13 in the 3rd after the Rondo rebound then layup. 2 minutes later that fear was gone.

David over Goliath? Just recognize Goliath is who he is for reason. And if blind faith is what you're relying on like David - then say its such. Because there is no basketball reason to say LA won't be back in the Finals for the 4th time.

[Man In Black]

It's not blind faith, David has tools at his disposal. The basketball reasons are as follows: New players to integrate. Past performance isn't a guaranteed indicator of future performance. Is it just me, or did Kobe Bryant look human in the finals? Perhaps that's why he, like Andrew Bynum, had off-season surgery. No one talks about that. You guys treat Bean like he's indestructible. Who's to say that his game won't regress some? Does LA provide the needed depth to give him time to recoup?

Let's add that while saying that Matt Barnes is a good defender, can we both agree that both on the court and off the court, he hasn't made the smartest of decisions time and again? And When Ron was hungry for a le, now that he has one, will he continue to be a good teammate or will he revert back to Crazy Ron, one could say that driving a mini race car through LA isn't a good thing.

Again, it took Perkins going down, some favorable calls down the stretch and Ron Artest to carry the scoring load for LAL to get that repeat. It's commendable that they won. Let's just not kid ourselves and say that they did it dominatingly because that did not happen.

[2Cleva]

I give credit to Boston - because they are proven warriors and I respect greatly Miami's talent. That's them but that's not San Antonio.

Boston has shown they can nurse injuries all season and dig deep to play their best ball in the playoffs. SA doesn't have that in them anymore - these past 3 years showed that.