Judge Calls Health Law Uncons utional

[boutons_deux]

Refute the facts Alternet reports, BecKKK sucker.

[TheProfessor]

Seems the WH will focus on the fact that this has been upheld by two other federal courts and dismissed in fourteen courts so far. Not a bad track record at the moment. Also, (and this might have been mentioned already), the judge refused to enter any injunctive relief despite finding the mandate uncons utional. He severed that part despite the fact that there's no severability clause in the legislation.

Interesting point I saw earlier - if the mandate becomes the central cons utional issue and is subject to endless litigation/speculation over the next two years, how well does that bode for Mitt Romney and his presidential aspirations? He'll get destroyed in the Republican primary for that.

[boutons_deux]

"Christian" supremacist nut-fringe Repugs won't support cultist Romney, quite apart from his MA health care project.

Once his 5 boys didn't need to support his campaign (the reason they weren't volunteering to fight), did any of the enlist for the Repug bull wars?

[Blake]

That's just it. It's a tangent, and I am trying to restrain myself from going outside the meaning of this thread.

Be glad to discuss it otherwise.

You'd rather go on a different tangent about how you don't want to go on a different tangent.

k.

[Parker2112]

lets get back on the poster tangent, Blake. WC wanna pre-order?

[jack sommerset]

Again, I could not get past your first lines. Utter bull . There is a reason only 20 percent of the population in USA are liberals, they are full of .

LOL...

Isn't that the truth.

Does absolute failure taste like chicken? I've often wondered why some of you go back for more.

I wouldn't know. You tell me.

Conservatives have maintained their leading position among U.S. ideological groups in the first half of 2010. Gallup finds 42% of Americans describing themselves as either very conservative or conservative. This is up slightly from the 40% seen for all of 2009 and contrasts with the 20% calling themselves liberal or very liberal.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141032/20...-Liberals.aspx

[Blake]

I wouldn't know. You tell me.

Conservatives have maintained their leading position among U.S. ideological groups in the first half of 2010. Gallup finds 42% of Americans describing themselves as either very conservative or conservative. This is up slightly from the 40% seen for all of 2009 and contrasts with the 20% calling themselves liberal or very liberal.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141032/20...-Liberals.aspx

Nicely done. It tastes like crow.

[ElNono]

lol gallup asking people what they think they are instead of what they really want...

http://open.salon.com/blog/kemstone/..._not_even_know
http://mediamatters.org/reports/progmaj/

[ElNono]

BTW, I consider myself a moderate... I'm sure jack disagrees...

[Wild Cobra]

BTW, I consider myself a moderate... I'm sure jack disagrees...

Look at it this way.

You can be conservative or liberal on specific issues, and be a moderate on average, but I think it's a poor label for anyone.

Those I see who call themselves moderate I believe are liberals, but just see there extreme friends, and believe they are middle ground because of the extremists.

I would call you liberal.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Look at it this way.

You can be conservative or liberal on specific issues, and be a moderate on average, but I think it's a poor label for anyone.

Those I see who call themselves moderate I believe are liberals, but just see there extreme friends, and believe they are middle ground because of the extremists.

I would call you liberal.

Nice to see how you 'believe'... that's sort of like Yoni's 'convinced'

This post perfectly illustrates what a moron you are. You simply disregarded someone's own description of how they view themselves (they would know and you have no idea) and 'believed' your way to make them into something they are not..

fine logic ...


by the way you idiot I don't know anyone who is 'extreme'..

[ElNono]

Look at it this way.

You can be conservative or liberal on specific issues, and be a moderate on average, but I think it's a poor label for anyone.

Those I see who call themselves moderate I believe are liberals, but just see there extreme friends, and believe they are middle ground because of the extremists.

I would call you liberal.

But see, it's all about what you believe, which might have nothing to do with what anybody else believes. That's why self-labeling is truly pointless.
You see politics and the political spectrum entirely different from me. And rightly so, I might add, since it's really a matter of opinion, and always respectable.

I mean, I would label you a neocon, and I'm willing to bet you don't see yourself like that at all.

[George Gervin's Afro]

But see, it's all about what you believe, which might have nothing to do with what anybody else believes. That's why self-labeling is truly pointless.
You see politics and the political spectrum entirely different from me. And rightly so, I might add, since it's really a matter of opinion, and always respectable.

I mean, I would label you a neocon, and I'm willing to bet you don't see yourself like that at all.

nah, WC knows how you gfeel better than you do.. because he believes

[jacobdrj]

Do you think basic k-12 education for citizens is a privilege or a necessity?

I have heard some compelling arguments that k-12 should NOT be a requirement.

[Blake]

I have heard some compelling arguments that k-12 should NOT be a requirement.

I have too.

In the end though, I think it is more beneficial to society as a whole to have an educated population.......at least to the 9th/10th grade level.

In a similar way, I think it is more beneficial to have a healthy population/workforce.

[fyatuk]

So if the govt can't make you buy insurance, why do I have to buy auto insurance to drive?

If the response is "driving is a privilege", then, are we equating healthcare to being a privilege?

If it is then a privilige then hospitals could theoretically, (based on this opinion) turn people away rather than provide health services.

The state can deny you a license and send you to jail for not having auto insurance now...

I think both of these issues need to be held to a consistent standard.

You don't have to drive. You have to live.

Requiring auto insurance amounts to a tax for owning a car going to a private company.

Requiring health insurance amounts to a tax on your existence going to a private company or the government.

Big difference.

Of course, I'm opposed to the auto insurance laws as well

[boutons_deux]

auto insurance is to protect other people from damage you cause to others, aka liability, and secondarily for damage you cause to you and your stuff. auto insurance is mandated with enforcement penalties.

taxpayer/public sick-care facilities are liable for people's sick-care who can't afford ripoff sick-care costs and ripoff health insurance rates, esp if they have health problems. And nobody's yelling socialism and "govt take over" about those facilities.

public/taxpayer-funded health facilities are a humanitarian, even truly Christian/moral service, as much as that pisses off mean-spirited, -everybody, AynRand-ish right-wingers and "Christian" hate-mongers.

So mandating that all people buy health insurance to "protect" taxpayers from liability for anybody's sick-care is perfectly parallel with auto or property owner liability insurance. In the crudest, materialistic terms understood even by ideologically blinded right-wingers and Christian, mandated health insurance is a good business deal.

[fyatuk]

So mandating that all people buy health insurance to "protect" taxpayers from liability for anybody's sick-care is perfectly parallel with auto or property owner liability insurance. In the crudest, materialistic terms understood even by ideologically blinded right-wingers and Christian, mandated health insurance is a good business deal.

Property insurance has no business in the argument, as that's not mandated by law, but often by contractural agreements.

Auto insurance is state mandated, and contains several varieties of opt-outs.

The health law is federally mandated with no opt-out. And the claim of power for federal mandate is a bunch of hogwash anyway. They have a claim to regulating the insurance industry, at least those companies that operate across state lines, but they don't have a proper claim to justify the individual mandate (If I'm a Texan seeking medical attention from a Texas doctor/hospital, there's no interstate commerce there).

Health insurance doesn't belong in the same sentence as other insurance types, anyway. Unless you are talking purely about a catastrophic cost policy, health insurance is a completely different type of beast. What we call health insurance is both a true insurance policy and a managed health policy. You want to mandate everyone has a catastrophic cost policy, that's another argument.

Also, the indivudal mandate doesn't protect anybody from liability. It's a handy excuse, but this health care reform was just a money gift to private insurance companies with no benefit to taxpayers as a whole. It's not going to save the taxpayers anything. It might shift some taxpayer money from the public sector to private, but it's just as likely to increase overall taxpayer expenditures.

The government could have easily ins uted reforms that would have eased health insurance (and thier 15-20% markup on health care costs) out of the picture while provided actual protection for the emergency rooms, but that's not what anyone in the government wants, even though it'd be what's best for the taxpayers.

[Wild Cobra]

Leave it to boutons to not understand such simple concepts.

[FromWayDowntown]

Look at it this way.

You can be conservative or liberal on specific issues, and be a moderate on average, but I think it's a poor label for anyone.

Those I see who call themselves moderate I believe are liberals, but just see there extreme friends, and believe they are middle ground because of the extremists.

I would call you liberal.

All politics is binary, I guess.

[ElNono]

All politics is binary, I guess.

Lenin: "...each man must choose between joining our side or the other side"
Mussolini: "O con noi o contro di noi" (You're either with us or against us.)
Bush: "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
Hillary Clinton: "Every nation has to either be with us, or against us"