D-Will to the Nets

[Killakobe81]

Melo: Better scorer, rebounder.

DWill: Better at basically everything else.

Do you disagree? Williams is (was) an MVP candidate, plays better D, and makes his teammates MUCH better when he's on the floor. He carried a pretty bad Utah team and had them at the 5th seed in a pretty tough West before the wheels fell off. When's the last time Melo put a team on his back for any length of time?

Im as big a Dwill fan as any on here but dude has not been an MVP candidate since the middle of December ...since then rose has been way better and a case can be made for Nash, Westbrook and Paul. I expect to see greatness for him if he gets teh right pieces and or team ...but curious to see how this shakes out ...

Do I like Dwill better than Melo ...for my team? yes. But does he have more upside than melo? Doubtful.

[djohn2oo8]

**BREAKING NEWS** As i reported about 1HR ago > Deron Williams telling friends HE WILL NEVER SIGN EXTENSION WITH NETS! #Unhappy with trade

http://twitter.com/incarceratedbob/s...62732872388608

[Gordon Hayward]

**BREAKING NEWS** As i reported about 1HR ago > Deron Williams telling friends HE WILL NEVER SIGN EXTENSION WITH NETS! #Unhappy with trade

http://twitter.com/incarceratedbob/s...62732872388608

At least Deron has a good at ude about this whole thing.

[Kyle Orton]

I see Melo as very similar to Pierce. A knucklehead in his 20's, but as he entered his 30s he figured out what it means to play defense, be a leader, and facilitate the perimeter offense. It's gonna take the Knicks sometime. Amare is nearly "there" completely from a mental standpoint and the jury is still out on Melo's at ude once he gets an extension. Even once they both fully mature, they still need a center, new coach and possibly a true 3rd wheel. The Knicks have laid a great foundation for contending in the future and are in much better shape than the Nets, but might still be 2-3 years away.

[Killakobe81]

LOL if true ...he wont sign extension ...no way NJ allows him to Knicks ...Lakers Mavs or whomever else will have a chance to get him.

[Kyle Orton]

LOL if true ...he wont sign extension ...no way NJ allows him to Knicks ...Lakers Mavs or whomever else will have a chance to get him.

If he pulls a Melo and says he'll only extend with the Knicks, the Nets might not have much of a choice.

[HarlemHeat37]

Meh, I don't really see how a concrete argument can be made on either side, they're very close in ability..

They're both average defenders(that's being generous in Anthony's case, and being generous in regards to Williams' ability this year, where his D has been mediocre)..Anthony is a solid rebounder for his position, Williams is one of the best passers in the NBA..Anthony is an elite scorer, Williams makes his teammates better on an elite level..

Both guys have maxed out in the WCF, where neither guy was the clear-cut leader of the team(Anthony was the best player on his team, but Billups got a lot of credit..Boozer was the best player on that Jazz team, but Williams was probably the leader)..

I don't really see much separation..

In regards to style of play translating to les, PGs as #1s haven't been too successful in recent NBA history, but a player like Carmelo has never led a team to a le as a #1 either(Kobe, Jordan and Bird were all elite passers, and the former 2 being good defenders)..Pierce is the closest comparison, but he won't find a KG..

It's a toss-up..

[JamStone]

There are plenty of players in the NBA who could average 25 PPG if they were given the minutes, touches, and shot opportunities. Could Deron average 25 PPG if he shot more? Absolutely. My point was more so whether he do it without it being a detriment to the team. Do you want guys like Reggie Williams or Marcus Thornton averaging 25 PPG? If given the shots, I think they could too. But would it be good for their teams? Deron Williams can average 25 PPG if he took the shots. Would it help or hurt his team if he had to take that many shots per game?

And again, Utah has actually played at a very fast pace for a while now. I don't know why people think they're a slow halfcourt team. They haven't been that in a long time.

[Killakobe81]

You're the one who compared shooting percentages. If you're going to use shooting percentages as part of the basis for your argument that Deron could average 25 PPG, then I'm going to use Prince as an example to refute it. Deron is not really a 21 PPG scorer. This is the first season averaging over 20 PPG. He's more of a 18-19 point scorer. He's scored more this season because of the loss of Boozer. And what has that gotten him? Traded to the Nets. If Deron has solid players around him, he's best served to be more of a 18-19 PPG scorer and 10 APG PG, not a 25 PPG scorer. And I'm not sure where you've been, but over the past few seasons before this season, Utah has been one of the faster teams in the league, been top 10 in terms of pace and scoring.

I don't dispute this ...most teams aren't doing well when the PG has to score THAT much however it does work in chicago ...and to a lesser degree (scoring wise) with Isiah ...

I dont know if he is as good as those guys ... LOL

[Gordon Hayward]

If he pulls a Melo and says he'll only extend with the Knicks, the Nets might not have much of a choice.

The new CBA is probably going to deal with that.

[Mal]

What with this New York.... Now everybody wants to play for Knicks and their dumb coach..

[djohn2oo8]

I suspect The Prokhorov's plan to woo Deron Williams involves his wealth, the move to Brooklyn, and many, many s

http://twitter.com/bruce_arthur

[HarlemHeat37]

NBA will need to turn to contraction soon, tbh..it's a good thing from a basketball perspective anyways, too many useless teams..with Lebron's Donation setting a new precedent for FAs going to "Super teams", it's going to make the NBA more entertaining, but it's also going to force the league to make some decisions, regarding certain small market teams..

[lefty]

Lol Raja. Should've signed with the Champs, you sucker.

Timvp has a point

[JamStone]

I think Paul Pierce could be a good comparison for Melo. Similar in talent and style of play. But obviously, it would take a lot from Melo to develop and improve the other aspects of his game, like being more unselfish, creating scoring opportunities for teammates, and becoming a better defender, at least team defender (even in a D'Antoni system), to help the Knicks become at least adequate defensive and at least put up a fight to make teams work a little to score.

The Knicks aren't going to get a KG type of emotional leader on defense. But if they can find a guy to anchor the middle in the next couple seasons, it would be a start. He's not great or smart, but perhaps Samuel Dalembert could be had at a relatively affordable price this summer. Tyson Chandler would be ideal, but I think Cuban does what he can to keep him and even if he can't, Tyson is probably out of the Knicks' price range.

[picc84]

It's not a bad debate. What's harder to find? A 20/10 point guard or a 25+ point scoring wing player? Both types of players pretty tough to acquire. Which is easier to build around? Which is easier to build around for a championship?

The answer to those questions might be Deron Williams. It's tougher to find a 20/10 PG than find a 25 point scoring wing. And it's probably easier to build around the point guard because the position carries a lot of value since on most teams the PG has the ball in his hands most of the time. You compare that to Melo who is not a LeBron type who also facilitates the offense and isn't an elite defender, and I could see someone arguing that Deron Williams is the "more valuable" player to a team. But getting a 25 point scorer is nothing to scoff at either. And while Deron might be more valuable, Melo could still be the "better" or "more talented" player by his scoring abilities alone.

And the thing with 20/10 point guards is that it does not guarantee championship success. The best point guards over the last 20+ years weren't able to lead teams to championships. From Stockton to GP to Kidd to Nash to currently CP3 and D-Will, they haven't done it, while solid but not spectacular point guards like Billups, Parker, Fisher were adequate enough when added to a great big man and/or great scoring wing and/or a very balanced team.

What can shift the comparison towards Melo is if he works his ass off to become an above average defender (unlikely under D'Antoni) or he becomes an above average facilitator as more of a point forward (which is possible). But it also still comes down to what each respective team has to surround either guy. Melo does have Amare and still has Billups for at least the remainder of this year. Deron has a regressing Brook Lopez, but less impressive, he also has Outlaw, Morrow, Vujacic running the wings for him.

Personally, I would lean more towards Melo as a better player than Deron, but there is an argument to be made that Deron is more valuable because of the position he plays and the fact that he's an elite playmaker/facilitator.

I don't think there's any debate at all. Deron is a better, more dominant player and always has been. Not by a lot, but still. And Deron destroyed him last year w/o homecourt, and with two starters injured.

Melo is a better passer than he's given credit for, but he doesn't utilize the talent nearly as much as he should.

The solace Knicks fans can take from this is that there's no way in Deron is resigning in ty New Jersey, and he won't even have to move if the knicks court him.

[Muser]

Melo > Williams

Damn, if Williams doesn't sign an extension the Nets just ed themselves over.

[Mugen]

Lol Raja. Should've signed with the Champs, you sucker.

true, he coulda been on a team that gets knocked out in the 2nd round instead of missing the playoffs.

[HarlemHeat37]

I think Paul Pierce could be a good comparison for Melo. Similar in talent and style of play. But obviously, it would take a lot from Melo to develop and improve the other aspects of his game, like being more unselfish, creating scoring opportunities for teammates, and becoming a better defender, at least team defender (even in a D'Antoni system), to help the Knicks become at least adequate defensive and at least put up a fight to make teams work a little to score.

To be fair, and this is something people forget, but Paul Pierce had already been on a top 5 defensive team, prior to KG, and another top 10 defensive team, during the Celtics' Pierce-Walker runs in the East..Pierce had the #1 defensive rating and the #1 on/off +/- on both of those teams, meaning an argument could easily be made, that he was the most impactful defender on those Celtics teams..

Pierce was never an elite, or even standout defender, at any time during his career, but he's always bought in to the team defense aspect of basketball IMO..

Carmelo has been on 1 or 2 good defensive teams, but his impact on D was never significant, he was always in the middle of the pack in team importance, defensively..I don't think he has the basketball IQ to be a notable defender, but we'll see..

The Knicks aren't going to get a KG type of emotional leader on defense. But if they can find a guy to anchor the middle in the next couple seasons, it would be a start. He's not great or smart, but perhaps Samuel Dalembert could be had at a relatively affordable price this summer. Tyson Chandler would be ideal, but I think Cuban does what he can to keep him and even if he can't, Tyson is probably out of the Knicks' price range.

Dalembert will probably join the Heat next year, IMO..

Knicks are going to need 3 quality defenders around Anthony and Stoudemire, most importantly, a big C that can defend the post, which is very difficult to find..

I don't really see how they can become a good defensive team, especially with D'Antoni as coach..

[MavFan6488]

Melo > Williams

Damn, if Williams doesn't sign an extension the Nets just ed themselves over.

he won't sign an extension...he will become a free agent and end up as a knick. from new jersey, you can almost see the MSG..he will probably skip all practices and games with the nets now and watch the knicks courtside in protest of the trade..

[JamStone]

I don't think there's any debate at all. Deron is a better, more dominant player and always has been. Not by a lot, but still. And Deron destroyed him last year w/o homecourt, and with two starters injured.

Deron played well in a couple games, but I think Boozer was a bigger reason why the Nuggets lost to the Jazz. And Carmelo averaged 30 PPG in that series. I think Carmelo's horrible performance in the series clinching game 6 has your memory skewed. In fact, two of Deron's three best games in that series were in losses.

Overall, Deron did play well against the Nuggets. But to put it on Carmelo who put up 31 and 9 in that series is a bit much. He had a poor shooting performance in the series clincher but Deron did not "destroy" Carmelo.

[Muser]

Knicks are going to need 3 quality defenders around Anthony and Stoudemire, most importantly, a big C that can defend the post, which is very difficult to find..

I don't really see how they can become a good defensive team, especially with D'Antoni as coach..

Didn't Dwight say he would like to go to the Knicks?

[nkdlunch]

damn Nets russian owner took a dump on Knicks front office.

Isiah

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

2011 Jazz: 99.4 PPG (14th highest scoring team)

2010 Jazz: 104. PPG (4th highest scoring team)

2009 Jazz: 103.6 PPG (7th highest scoring team)

2008 Jazz: 106.2 PPG (5th highest scoring team)

2007 Jazz: 101.5 PPG (7th highest scoring team)

Again, how often do you watch the Jazz?

tbh it's pretty funny how after this post Cry Havoc disappeared from this thread faster than rails of cocaine off thispego's coffee table.

[MavFan6488]

Didn't Dwight say he would like to go to the Knicks?

dwight - amare - melo - [] - d-will

imagine