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"correctly" enough to render:::
Kobe: 5
Duncan: 4
While we're at it, Kobe's fadeaway shot is the ugliest jump shot in the history of basketball. Can't even copy MJ's fadeaway correctly LOL
"correctly" enough to render:::
Kobe: 5
Duncan: 4
Duncan is great, but it's not even a difficult choice. No sane GM would pick him over Kareem. Not even if they knew how his career would turn out.
What do you think now about our 2nd seeded squad bro?
What would you like me to think?
Nothing, just wondering what made you think 2nd seed. I already know why DaDakota thought that, he's just a complete
djohn going HAM
lol this thread 5 pages long
Timmy was the more versatile player offensively and defensively, but Kareem still comes out on top. He was too good for too long while winning championships. He had the most unstoppable move in basketball, blocked shots like crazy, and was an excellent passer. In short, Kareem was probably the best big man of all time so it's a no-brainer that he gets the nod over Timmy.
Anyone talking about Wilt in an attempt to belittle what he did should note that Wilt would hold his own against Kareem even in his later years while Kareem was fresh. he could actually block Kareem's skyhook. Wilt was amazing and would have averaged at LEAST prime Shaq numbers if he played in Tim/Shaq's era.
IMO the list of great bigs goes like this:
1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Hakeem/Duncan
4. Russel
5. Shaq
Btw, I've noticed a lot of guys using purely stats or simply number of championships won to compare players. The jackassery of this method is pretty blatant. Tim could have averaged 27-30 ppg in his prime if he wanted. He was simply too unselfish to. It's precisely that unselfishness that allowed guys like Tony and Manu to flourish in the Spurs' system. Also, simple stats like ppg, etc. don't account for the pace of the game. I know that to a lot of Laker fans the idea that ppg is not the indication of who is the best seems a bit foreign, but just try it.
Anyway, long story short Kareem was better. He was a more effective post player and a more effective defender than Tim all while winning more championships, more MVPs, and putting up AMAZING FG% numbers throughout his career.
Yes Kareem is the best big man of all time and IMO in his own tier as the 2nd best player of all time. It's not a slam on Duncan to say he's not as good as Kareem. If we're ranking centers:
1. Kareem
2. Shaq
3. Hakeem
4. Wilt
5. Moses Malone
Bill Russell is not a top 5 center of all time, maybe not even a top 10. lol glorified Ben Wallace. 3.
Nobody's mastered or pretty much even tried to consistently implement Kareem's sky hook. That's an amazing feat - to own a basketball shot.
The damn thing was practically unblockable. Anyone remember Bill Willoughby? Chances are you remember him because he was one of the rare players to ever block Kareem's sky hook.
Kareem was not just a one-trick-pony either. He was a force of nature the likes of which we'll never see again. As great as Duncan is, Kareem towers above, it's not even close IMO.
tbh i was about to post my top 4 centers of all time and that's exactly what my list would look like.
1 Kareem
2 Shaq
3 Hakeem
4 Wilt
If all four of them were to walk into a time machine and play today, that's how I would rank them. They would all easily be the best center in today's game. After that it's a huge dropoff, imho
It's hard to really include Bill Russell in any ranking. He's just a legend in his own right winning 11 rings. I have a lot of respect for what he did, but watching videos of him, all I really see is a less offensive skilled Odom but a better defensive player
The only people I remember (from old footage and as well mentioned in old articles) who managed to block Kareem's sky hook were Wilt, Hakeem and Manute Bol.
Cap would have eaten Timmy's asshole alive....and it would have tasted good too...
Yea but who eats dead assholes? Really.
If Shaq isn't allowed to knock his defenders over (i.e., 12 charges per game), he drops off this list of 4 players, IMO.
tbh i was about to post my top 4 centers of all time and that's exactly what my list would look like.
1 Kareem
2 Shaq
3 Hakeem
4 Wilt
If all four of them were to walk into a time machine and play today, that's how I would rank them. They would all easily be the best center in today's game. After that it's a huge dropoff, imho
That's when we busted him out for Odom and won Back-to-Back.
Dont have time to read all of this now but Kareem was the best HS player in the nation, he was one of the greatest players in NCAABB history, and was the best player in the NBA for a longer period than Duncan was. Duncan's only legit claims to being the best player was in the early 2000's ...maybe after the 2nd of the 3 peat les ... I would argue he was the best player from 2002-2005. After that for me it's Kobe and Lebron. Before that it was Shaq. Kareem was more dominant, a better scorer rebounder and shot-blocker. Better at FT's, had one of the most deadly weapons (sky hook) in NBA history. This is no knock on Duncan, Kareem is just flat out better. Sure Kareem had better team-mates but he won everywhere he has been and won les with two NBA teams plus led UCLA to several.
LOL 25-22 is a travesty a sham-mockery and an indictment on the intelligence or lack of it, in the NBA forum.
Before you proceed down the yellow brick road with your "fairness doctrine" just remember one thing...
1st option in San Antonio means your a 3rd option in LA...Kobe's stats as a second option in LA supercedes Duncan's as 1st option in SA...
Fact Check: Basketball Reference dot com....
PS: At no point in time was Duncan ever better than Kobe...he may have had a better team at certain times but Man to Man...Kobe would run him out the gym...there's not a GM alive (outside of SA) that would take a prime Duncan over a Prime Kobe...not a single one...
and if you want to argue rings....let's here it...I'll leave you with this to reminisce to:
^Watching that makes you realize how the years have taken their toll on Bryant. Without seeing these clips your mind plays tricks watching him operate now. Your subconscious has the above files, but, it's buried, so you think it's still there, or, loitering the area of his play.
But, alas, it is not....
"the problem with time I've learned....eventually time always runs out."
amen brother...sometimes when I'm alone in my room, sometimes I stare at the wall and in the back of my mind I hear my conscience call....
I miss those days...but the true Laker faithful we're not going to let these Ho's be history revisionists....we gonna tap that ass till the day that we die...
I'm one of the bigger non-Laker Kobe fans, but I'd take Duncan in his prime over Kobe in his prime if I were an NBA GM. It's not that Duncan was the better individual player than Kobe. Kobe in his prime was probably the better "individual" player, but you can build a championship team around a HOF big man. Duncan wasn't as prolific as a scorer, but he was still one of the better scoring big men, plus he anchored one of the top 2-3 defenses with rebounding and shotblocking.
You can build a great team around a big man that plays at an elite level at both ends of the floor. It was never more evident than the 2002-03 season where Duncan had less than a great supporting cast, with David Robinson on his last legs and Ginobili and Parker still relatively green to the NBA game and not yet the players they would eventually become. The second best player on that 2003 Spurs championship team might have been Stephen Jackson. Meanwhile Kobe was in his prime from 2004-2007 and building around him with a weak supporting cast resulted in a low playoff seed and first round exits after missing the playoffs completely one season.
I wouldn't argue with anyone saying Kobe in his prime was the better individual player than Duncan in his prime. That argument can go either way. But as for GMs choosing between the two to build around, I'd take Duncan in his prime almost every time. I think a lot of NBA GMs would too.
I know, I know. Went off into a tangent and turned it into another Kobe/Duncan debate. Oh well...
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