And in the fact Rick Barnes spoke very highly of Joseph as well.
Sorry but this a terrible idea. A slightly athletic defender can pressure the ball with Neal and its bad bad news. Memphis demonstrated that very clearly and he got yanked real quick from extended minutes.
I love Neal but that just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
Manu would be the one doing most of the PG duties. Neal's task will only be to bring up the ball and put it in Manu's hand. It would work a lot like the Hill/Ginobili backcourt.
Which is my point about Joseph. In this draft, a 29th pick who plays important minutes is on a very bad team that needed immediate help at a specific position.
I don't really follow.
I've already said I'm not sold on Joseph's being a rotation player right off the bat, though things like his ast/to ratio gives me some reason to think it's a possibility. I'm of the mind the Spurs are going to sign another vet point guard in the meantime.
As for Richards, he didn't play at all last season and is currently playing at a very low level. I think his being a rotation player is a practical impossibility and I'm not even sure he's even going to sign with the Spurs initially this season.
There's no question Ford is better than Quinn. He's in a different league than him. Unfortunately, he's pouty, thinks he's better than he is and not only shoots first, but second and third. He'll also more than likely command more than the veteran's minimum and I suspect that's all the Spurs will allot to their backup PG, if they go the free agent route.
Watson's the guy. Tough defender, pass first, can run a team, can make an occasional three and will accept the limited role he'll be given (roughly 15 mpg).
The problem with a Ginobili-Neal backup PG tandem -- that so many ignore -- is that Neal would regularly have to defend PG's. He's not quick enough to do that. Offensively, I think they could probably get away with it, but they'd face plenty of pressure/traps. Also, when Parker inevitably misses a few weeks, then what? Run Ginobili into the ground? They need a credible veteran.
Any idea of Watson's contractual situation?
He's a free agent. There's a thread on him in the Think Tank.
Played for the vet min in Utah last season. Ideal candidate for the backup PG job on the Spurs.
Pop won't play with a 7 players perimeter rotation of Parker, Ginobili, Jefferson, vet PG, Neal, Anderson and Leonard. So if Spurs go with a vet PG to be their backup, one of them won't play and it will likely be either James Anderson or Kawhi Leonard.
Spurs will likely sign a vet PG and Earl Watson is too my top pick but I don't think he will be the first option to play minutes behind Parker. He will be signed as an insurance in case Neal at PG doesn't work and Cory Joseph isn't good enough. At the end, this player will have a damn limited role and I can see Spurs going with a low profile player because a player like Watson would like to be in a situation with more minutes available.
Which would be when the defense with any plus defender can pick him up at half court and cause serious issues. Memphis did just that every time Neal caught the ball anywhere near half court. Denver exposed a weakness by doubling Manu hard and fast when Tony sat. You get the ball out of his hands and out to the other guards. Hill had issues and Neal was a disaster.
Having a press succeed against you is just a sign of disaster you typically only see in the NCAA. Rick Pitino demonstrated how a successful press absolutely dominates offenses throughout the 90s.
We have two legitimate SF now and less three guard lineups compounds that problem. You can get away with it for half a quarter here and there when there is some foul trouble but as a staple of the offense I just think its a bad idea.
I am sorry to be contrary. I really do respect your takes but I disagree with this as well.
Even this year when he was determined to come out of the gate strong he would play 10 deep. He has a lot of starters on the wrong side of 30 and a sniff of injury has a guy in a suit before April.
He has two small forwards and Leonard at least will be asked to play some 4 like he wanted to with the year before last. Dice is gone.
And now you have inserted the notion Neal at PG is even mulled over by the coaching staff as reality. He played Quinn over that idea last year.
Neal is a good enough dribbler/ballhander to beat a press, it's just a matter of adjustments.
Spurs can do a lot things to make a Neal/Ginobili backcourt work. First, they can tell Neal to focus on working on his PG skills during the summer. Second, they can do a lot of tactical works with Manu during the trainign camp. Third, the Neal/Ginobili backcourt will have the regular season to work on its chemistry.
And I don't say Neal would be a great PG but it would be a choice by default. Cory Joseph shouldn't be ready to contribute in his rookie year and the FA market for PG is very thin. I would rather have a good true PG than Neal to backup Parker but Spurs will have a hard time getting one so Neal is worth a try.
A 7 perimeter rotation means that the team goes 11 deep and it's damn hard to do. Even Pop isn't able to go that deep.
In 09-10, Spurs were 7 deep on the perimeter with Parker, Hill, Ginobili, Mason, Jefferson, Bogans and Finley. It ended with Mason askign to eb traded and Finley asking to be released.
In 10-11, Spurs were 5 deep at PF/C It ended with Splitter being in the doghouse during the regular season and Blair not playing during the playoffs.
Leonard playing some minutes at PF could help Pop to give minutes to everybody but do you really want have Leonard playing significant minutes at PF? I don't think it's in Spurs interest to go small like that.
I don't know what is Spurs staff plan regarding the backup PG spot. I'm just saying what I think they should do.
Last edited by Bruno; 06-25-2011 at 09:54 PM.
Bruno is 100% correct here.
He hit every nail on the head.
Agreed w/ everything about the wing/guard rotation.
It's about maximizing the playing time for your best players. Moving Neal to back up PG w/ the help of Manu does that (free's up time for Anderson/Leonard at SG/SF).
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 06-25-2011 at 09:57 PM.
Richards getting minutes over Bonner?
I don't see how it could happen.
If Spurs want to be compe ive next year, they can't stand pat. A Duncan/Splitter/Bonner/Blair paint rotation is just too weak.
I believe Pop thinks that Splitter backs up Duncan most of the time. Neither one of them keep up with quick 4s very well and they both play in the post.
Lucky guy.
Too bad I can't forget.
Another effect to start Splitter alongside Tim would be that the secodn unit would be Blair and Bonner. I'm sure we all would be thrilled to see back that amazing duo.
Blair or Bonner has to go.Another effect to start Splitter alongside Tim would be that the secodn unit would be Blair and Bonner. I'm sure we all would be thrilled to see back that amazing duo.
Spurs have to improve their front-line outside of Duncan/Splitter.
This joseph looks alright to me, he's got a nice pace to his game. I doubt, we'll see neal at pg that much. Though, he'd be much better than mason at it, since he played pg in europe. It will be the vet pickup(ex. watson) or manu backing up tp at point.
I guess I don't really get the thoughts about having SGs play PG. The positions are different. You can ask a left tackle to play left guard (in football) and he might be OK at it but it's not his position.
Obviously, the Spurs needed a backup PG better than what they have so they drafted one w/ the 29th pick. I seem to remember TP being a late pick in that area as well. They don't need a veteran PG to come in a take up salary and playing time from the rookies - they need more patience and understanding (both of the game and the salary cap situation) from their fans.
TP was an exception. I know all the fans want to see the draft pick play, myself included, but pop hates playing rookies to begin with, there is no way he goes into the season with only 19 year old joseph backing tp up.
This would make sense if it were not for seeing how he responded to the press last season. Beating the press is not all about the dribble. You have to be able to make cuts such that the defender cannot stay in front of you when he presses. Neal does not have the quicks to do this.
Pop was playing Quinn over Neal at the point, I can guess what the Spurs are going to do.
Sure they can bring extra guys up for outlets and delay getting into their sets. Neal cannot keep quicker defenders out of his face.Spurs can do a lot things to make a Neal/Ginobili backcourt work. First, they can tell Neal to focus on working on his PG skills during the summer. Second, they can do a lot of tactical works with Manu during the trainign camp. Third, the Neal/Ginobili backcourt will have the regular season to work on its chemistry.
I have no idea what Joseph should or should not be able to do. I do not see how you can make claims like that. They can try it sure. That soes not mean that it will not be exposed as a glaring weakness.And I don't say Neal would be a great PG but it would be a choice by default. Cory Joseph shouldn't be ready to contribute in his rookie year and the FA market for PG is very thin. I would rather have a good true PG than Neal to backup Parker but Spurs will have a hard time getting one so Neal is worth a try.
Mason and Finley were hurt for stretches that season. Mason's hand was jacked. That was my whole point about injuries. They are not going to play the starters many minutes. There are going to be more than 50 minutes left after the starters at the 1-3 play their 30 minutes a nightA 7 perimeter rotation means that the team goes 11 deep and it's damn hard to do. Even Pop isn't able to go that deep.
In 09-10, Spurs were 7 deep on the perimeter with Parker, Hill, Ginobili, Mason, Jefferson, Bogans and Finley. It ended with Mason asking to be traded and Finley asking to be released.
I do not see how over an 82 game season that those guys could not see minutes one way or another. The primary guard off the bench is gone and the others are young. We are going to see many lineups
Splitter was hurt early after joining the team late and a rookie. Thats not the doghouse but Pop being Pop with a new guy who is hurt.Blair was terrible. He played and then got benched. Terrible defense and no contribution on offense forced Pop's hand.In 10-11, Spurs were 5 deep at PF/C It ended with Splitter being in the doghouse during the regular season and Blair not playing during the playoffs.
Blair, Bonner, Dice and as the season wore on Splitter all saw minutes
I would rather see him get minutes at the 4 then Neal at the 1.Leonard playing some minutes at PF could help Pop to give minutes to everybody but do you really want have Leonard playing significant minutes at PF? I don't think it's in Spurs interest to go small like that.
Fair enough and maybe it will work but against good defenses I just feel that would be a disaster.I don't know what is Spurs staff plan regarding the backup PG spot. I'm just saying what I think they should do.
CJ sounds exactly like Tony Parker did when he was a rookie.
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