Page 5 of 10 FirstFirst 123456789 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 125 of 239
  1. #101
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    it's useless goal used by the VRWC to enrich the wealhty and screw the poor.
    how so?

  2. #102
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,536
    because the VRWC and their enablers the Repugs don't give a about the deficit or the ac ulated debt, or St Ronnie and dubya wouldn't have INCREASED the debt by 2+ times EACH.

    For the VRWC, it's pretext for destroying the social safety net while enriching the rich. They want to balance the budget by not touching current corporate welfare, by increasing tax expenditures, and by cutting public assistance to the poor, in fact, to all of the 99% (no infrastructure, no maintenance, no education assistance, etc, etc)




    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...icit_brief.php

    note how in the 1980s and 2000s, under deficit/debt-hating Repugs, the deficits were huge and debt increased, 2x, 3x, and nary a peep from the Repugs, until they could blame it all Obama.
    Last edited by boutons_deux; 02-02-2015 at 10:00 PM.

  3. #103
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    That doesn't explain why balancing the budget is an "useless goal"... that was your claim. Why is balancing the budget a "useless goal"? In economic terms, balancing the budget will eventually become a necessity more than a luxury, how is that "useless"?

  4. #104
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,536
    That doesn't explain why balancing the budget is an "useless goal"... that was your claim. Why is balancing the budget a "useless goal"? In economic terms, balancing the budget will eventually become a necessity more than a luxury, how is that "useless"?
    "balanced budget" propaganda is USEFUL to the 1% who want their tax cuts paid for by cutting public assistance.

    It's USELESS to everybody else. Look how the annual deficit has varied over the decades, and who got hurt by it? deficit spending is useful when unstable capitalism has one of economic troughs.

    btw, a lot, even most, of the USA debt is owed to Americans, to the Fed, iow, to Americans and America itself. That's why the 1% as creditors HATE and WHINE against inflation because it lets their debtors off the hook some.

    The RIGID insistence by the VRWC that the annual budget MUST be balanced EVERY YEAR is pure, USELESS bull propaganda hiding their real agenda.

    btw, Paul Ryan's sociopathic budgets that were passed 3 or 4 times by the House INCREASED the national debt by a $Ts over next 10 years, but it was hard to get an solid estimate since their were some many undefined jokers, fudges, holes in his bull budget.

  5. #105
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    Inflation actually cuts pretty evenly... but, if you consider the fact that the poor has less money to put away in a different currency (ie: gold) to fight off inflation, they're actually the most hurt by it. You complain a good bit about stagnant salaries, that's an inherent problem of inflation. Now, in order for the economy to function, you do want a small-ish amount of inflation. It makes people take higher risks that just sitting on the money.

    We're currently still fighting off deflation (32 straight weeks with inflation under 2%, the Fed's baseline target), so there's no need to rush to balance the budget. But, eventually, things will bounce back and there will be inflationary pressure. Paying that kind of load of interest alone on the debt is going to require some sort of budget balancing, be it through cuts or increase in revenues.

  6. #106
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,536
    "stagnant salaries, that's an inherent problem of inflation."

    bull . real household income has been stagnant since VRWC shill/union buster St Ronnie got into office in '81. Single male's real income is even worse, back to the 70s.

    35+ years of stagnant salaries are DIRECT result of the War on Employees: busting unions that were the middle-class' "salary leader", and excess labor supply due to BigCorp's achieving/buying its political strategy of globalization which exports/kills US jobs and put US workers in direct compe ion with foreign sweat shops.


    Last edited by boutons_deux; 02-03-2015 at 09:01 AM.

  7. #107
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    44,136


    Despite what Boutons spittles, this isn't a Republican or Democrat issue. it is a politician and education issue.

    see the trend? And this is with crazy low interest rates for the last few years...just wait till they normalize....

    and the baby boom social security and medicare en lement bulge is just starting. You guys are going to be paying my wife and I $3000+ a month in todays dollars and giving us unlimited free health care.

    I am not a "balance the budget at any cost" whacko but I can also see the handwriting on the wall that we are on a path that should damn well alarm you younger guys...I've got mine already but for you young guys you should realize that you will ultimately be the victims of the out of control spending.
    Last edited by CosmicCowboy; 02-03-2015 at 11:21 AM.

  8. #108
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,911
    actually, you've misunderstood your own graph, CC. it does not reflect out of control spending.

  9. #109
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    44,136
    actually, you've misunderstood your own graph, CC. it does not reflect out of control spending.
    It is debt vs. GDP Winehole. There is no misunderstanding that. 2014 GDP is out and our debt exceeeds our current annual GDP and is continuing to rise. They can play Washington games with the annual numbers and ignore future obligations but the trend is irrefutable.

  10. #110
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    44,136
    By their own projections and admissions Social Security and Medicare will decimate their "trust funds" within 20 years and will not be be to fund 100% of their promised benefits without substantial changes in revenues and promised benefits.

    Touching social security and medicare is also the proverbial "third rail" in US politics. Touch it, you die. Good luck getting THAT changed.

  11. #111
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    It is debt vs. GDP Winehole. There is no misunderstanding that. 2014 GDP is out and our debt exceeeds our current annual GDP and is continuing to rise. They can play Washington games with the annual numbers and ignore future obligations but the trend is irrefutable.
    We've been there before though (and worse, actually):



    The US dollar has actually been appreciating lately. We're still staving off deflation. Rates won't come back up until we have a solid period with at least 2% or so inflation.

  12. #112
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    44,136
    We've been there before though (and worse, actually):



    The US dollar has actually been appreciating lately. We're still staving off deflation. Rates won't come back up until we have a solid period with at least 2% or so inflation.
    Totally different scenario. Debt levels then were military related due to WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Our military commitment now is just a skirmish compared to those times. Also, US economy was booming post war and through the 70's.

    Again, I'm not screaming chicken little the sky is falling today. I'm saying you younger guys are ed on the long term fundamentals that you can't appreciably change.

  13. #113
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    Totally different scenario. Debt levels then were military related due to WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Our military commitment now is just a skirmish compared to those times. Also, US economy was booming post war and through the 70's.

    Again, I'm not screaming chicken little the sky is falling today. I'm saying you younger guys are ed on the long term fundamentals that you can't appreciably change.
    We were actually on a pretty ed up recession with deflation before the war too, thanks to the '30s crisis. Economically speaking, the war was merely an excuse for the government to issue record-level debt and inundate the economy with funny money, until the economy got back on track and the GDP growth shot through the roof.

    The thing is, IMO, it's relatively impossible to look 20 years down the line with any certainty in the current climate. If the economy stays this stagnant for the next 20 years, we're going to have bigger things to worry about.

  14. #114
    Veteran
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Post Count
    97,536
    By their own projections and admissions Social Security and Medicare will decimate their "trust funds" within 20 years and will not be be to fund 100% of their promised benefits without substantial changes in revenues and promised benefits.

    Touching social security and medicare is also the proverbial "third rail" in US politics. Touch it, you die. Good luck getting THAT changed.
    Any problems with SS and Medicare are easily fixed, since govt policies created the problems, but Repugs will block any fixes, unless they can privatize, if not kill, SS and Medicare. You Repug voters are responsible for the Repug laws, policies that YOUR Repug politicians enact or block.

  15. #115
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    44,136
    Any problems with SS and Medicare are easily fixed, since govt policies created the problems, but Repugs will block any fixes, unless they can privatize, if not kill, SS and Medicare. You Repug voters are responsible for the Repug laws, policies that YOUR Repug politicians enact or block.
    spittle, spittle, spittle

    fixing involves cutting benefits or raising SS/Medicare payroll withholding.

    Name me a Democrat that will vote for that.

  16. #116
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,886
    Totally different scenario. Debt levels then were military related due to WWII, Korea, and Vietnam. Our military commitment now is just a skirmish compared to those times. Also, US economy was booming post war and through the 70's.

    Again, I'm not screaming chicken little the sky is falling today. I'm saying you younger guys are ed on the long term fundamentals that you can't appreciably change.
    EN is trying to talk specifics and you get more vague trying to cling to your ideology. Nothing if not pigheaded.

    long term fundamentals. more like long term talking out of the ass.

  17. #117
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    44,136
    EN is trying to talk specifics and you get more vague trying to cling to your ideology. Nothing if not pigheaded.

    long term fundamentals. more like long term talking out of the ass.
    bla bla bla ankle biter

  18. #118
    Believe.
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,886
    bla bla bla ankle biter
    I am talking specifics. I called you out on your 'long term fundumentals' and this is the weak you come with? There is no leg to bite because you have nothing to stand on, loser.

  19. #119
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    44,136
    I am talking specifics. I called you out on your 'long term fundumentals' and this is the weak you come with? There is no leg to bite because you have nothing to stand on, loser.
    Idiot. You didn't post anything but overly simplistic, ill informed gobbledygoop.

    "Called me out"



    The fact that we can no longer keep our debt from rising faster than GDP when we aren't at war tends to alarm intelligent people. I can see how you would miss that.

  20. #120
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    44,136
    from the CBO to help educate idiot Fuzzy

    Choices for the Future
    The unsustainable nature of the federal government’s current tax and spending policies presents lawmakers and the public with difficult choices. Unless substantial changes are made to the major health care programs and Social Security, those programs will absorb a much larger share of the economy’s total output in the future than they have in the past. Even with spending for all other federal activities on track, by the end of this decade, to represent the smallest share of GDP in more than 70 years, total federal noninterest spending would be larger relative to the size of the economy than it has been, on average, over the past 40 years. The structure of the federal tax code means that revenues would also represent a larger percentage of GDP in the future than they have, on average, in the past few decades—but not large enough to keep federal debt held by the public from growing faster than the economy starting in the next several years. Moreover, because federal debt is already unusually high relative to GDP, further increases in debt could be especially harmful. To put the federal budget on a sustainable path for the long term, lawmakers would have to make significant changes to tax and spending policies—letting revenues rise more than they would under current law, reducing spending for large benefit programs below the projected levels, or adopting some combination of those approaches.

    The size of such changes would depend on the amount of federal debt that lawmakers considered appropriate. For example, bringing debt back down to 39 percent of GDP in 2038—as it was at the end of 2008—would require a combination of increases in revenues and cuts in noninterest spending (relative to current law) totaling 2 percent of GDP for the next 25 years. (In 2014, 2 percent of GDP would equal about $350 billion.) If those changes came entirely from revenues, they would represent an increase of 11 percent relative to the amount of revenues projected for the 2014–2038 period; if the changes came entirely from spending, they would represent a cut of 10½ percent in noninterest spending from the amount projected for that period.

    In deciding how quickly to carry out policy changes to make the size of the federal debt more sustainable, lawmakers face other trade-offs. On the one hand, waiting to cut federal spending or raise taxes would lead to a greater ac ulation of debt and would increase the size of the policy adjustments needed to put the budget on a sustainable course. On the other hand, implementing spending cuts or tax increases quickly would weaken the economy’s current expansion and would give people little time to plan for and adjust to the policy changes. The negative short-term effects that deficit reduction has on output and employment would be especially large now, because output is so far below its potential level that the Federal Reserve is keeping short-term interest rates near zero and could not lower those rates further to offset the impact of changes in spending and tax policies.

  21. #121
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    CC has a valid point, in that the way we're setting things up, it's either going to be boom or bust. While I wouldn't particularly agree the bust option is a real possibility at this point in time, any person that hedges would try to cover/show some concern about it regardless.

  22. #122
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    The negative short-term effects that deficit reduction has on output and employment would be especially large now, because output is so far below its potential level that the Federal Reserve is keeping short-term interest rates near zero and could not lower those rates further to offset the impact of changes in spending and tax policies.
    This is what it boils down to. Right now, it would be unwise to do it. But, as soon as China blinks, the economy gets moving a bit again, inflation creeps up a bit and the GDP starts to grow, you gotta start trimming.

  23. #123
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    44,136
    CC has a valid point, in that the way we're setting things up, it's either going to be boom or bust. While I wouldn't particularly agree the bust option is a real possibility at this point in time, any person that hedges would try to cover/show some concern about it regardless.
    I tend to go with the eventual bust theory because idiots like Fuzzy vote. Politicians are either running for election or running for re-election. Dealing with real issues is painful and no politician from either end of the political spectrum is going to campaign on or support higher taxes and cutting benefits.

  24. #124
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Post Count
    44,136
    And don't give me the "taxing the rich" fallacy. You could take it all and it wouldn't reverse the trend. The real tax money is in the middle class.

  25. #125
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    I tend to go with the eventual bust theory because idiots like Fuzzy vote. Politicians are either running for election or running for re-election. Dealing with real issues is painful and no politician from either end of the political spectrum is going to campaign on or support higher taxes and cutting benefits.
    If they have to act (and that's a big if), it's gonna be reactionary, as usual. Obviously, if GDP grows steadily again, then it becomes less of an issue, which is what this waiting game is all about. I was reading China apparently already hit their ceiling of external consumption and now are fomenting internal consumption to continue growth. That's going to be interesting to follow.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •