Grades: Spurs @ Grizzlies - Feb. 5

[mystargtr34]

I posted this in the 'Until when' thread.. but the action seems to happening in here so i moved it.

Theres nothing that says you cant have one of Tim or Tiago on the court at all times if they start the game together.. its definately manageable.

1st Q
6 minutes - Sub in Blair for Tiago
2 minutes - Sub in Tiago for Tim

2nd Q
12 minutes - Sub in Bonner for Blair
5 minutes - Sub in Tim for Tiago
2 minutes - Sub in Blair for Bonner

Tim - 30 minutes
Tiago - 30 minutes
Bonner - 18 minutes
Blair - 18 minutes

If Matty is playing well and hitting his 3's as he has been lately.. there are extra minutes available at the expense of Blair. Plus they will play the majority of their minutes against bench players.

30 minutes each may be ecessive for Tim and Tiago during the regular season.. so you may have to go a 2 or 3 minutes stretch with Blair and Bonner provided they can match up against bench bigs during that time. Or perhaps try some small ball with Leonard at the 4.. considering playing Bonner and Blair at the 4 is pretty much small ball anyway due to lack of rebounding/defense and general size.

[DPG21920]

Many people here say Tiago can and should play 30mpg. That would have him playing about 2000 minutes in 4 months with the playoffs still to come. Perhaps he can do it. Fact is, he's never played even 1500 minutes in a 7 month season, inclusive playoffs.

You have a ridiculous schedule and 4 players to share 90 minutes. I'm not convinced the current distribution is the travesty that some here seem to think it is.

But if an additional 4mpg will keep the peace, I'm in.

Do you get what I'm saying about not looking at the average, but the consistency of the minutes?

Do you think that he deserves more minutes than Blair and Matt and if so, how many more? Do you think he's capable of playing 25 MPG like so many others that have come from overseas to the NBA?

[mystargtr34]

Mel_13 seems to think Tiago cant handle more than 25 minutes a night.. it may be a valid concern but like DPG said he should be given a chance at it. I do notice Tiago get winded a little when hes played a stretch of more than 8-9 minutes. Its probably true he cant play more than that in a stretch.. but imo his minutes can be increased by giving him increased intervals of playing time at lower stretches.. which is what would happen in my scenario above.

Tiago sitting for the first 10 minutes of the game while Tim is playing is eating into both his playing time.. and his rest time. if that makes sense. Those 10 minutes on the bench isnt doing him any good in terms of rest since he hasnt been on the court obviously.

[Mel_13]

Do you get what I'm saying about not looking at the average, but the consistency of the minutes?

Do you think that he deserves more minutes than Blair and Matt and if so, how many more? Do you think he's capable of playing 25 MPG like so many others that have come from overseas to the NBA?

We're watching the same games and drawing different conclusions.

I'm sure he could manage 25mpg on a nightly basis, but while the minutes may not have the consistency you would like, Tiago's role is clear defined and established. To me, it appears that understands his role and is flourishing in it. Unlike last season.

[timvp]

Splitter's specific MPG number doesn't concern me nearly as much as Splitter being ready to play next to Duncan come playoff time. If Splitter played 20 MPG and it was split seven minutes to start the game, seven minutes to start the second half and the final six minutes of the game, I'd be fine with that.

[Mel_13]

Mel_13 seems to think Tiago cant handle more than 25 minutes a night.. it may be a valid concern but like DPG said he should be given a chance at it. I do notice Tiago get winded a little when hes played a stretch of more than 8-9 minutes. Its probably true he cant play more than that in a stretch.. but imo his minutes can be increased by giving him increased intervals of playing time at lower stretches.. which is what would happen in my scenario above.

Tiago sitting for the first 10 minutes of the game while Tim is playing is eating into both his playing time.. and his rest time. if that makes sense. Those 10 minutes on the bench isnt doing him any good in terms of rest since he hasnt been on the court obviously.

No. As explained in several posts.

[Mel_13]

Splitter's specific MPG number doesn't concern me nearly as much as Splitter being ready to play next to Duncan come playoff time. If Splitter played 20 MPG and it was split seven minutes to start the game, seven minutes to start the second half and the final six minutes of the game, I'd be fine with that.

Now this is an entirely different, and more interesting, direction for the discussion.

I've got to get on the road to Austin. I'll check in later.

[dylankerouac]

Thanks for the writeup timvp! I completely agree with Neal's defense improving.

[DPG21920]

That goes into what I was talking about Mel. I said Tiago should be playing next to Tim. I also said his MPG average wasn't my biggest concern and that it's about the consistency of the minutes he deserves.

[DPG21920]

We're watching the same games and drawing different conclusions.

I'm sure he could manage 25mpg on a nightly basis, but while the minutes may not have the consistency you would like, Tiago's role is clear defined and established. To me, it appears that understands his role and is flourishing in it. Unlike last season.

We just disagree on that. Going from 28 minutes one night, to 14 the next isn't a defined role.

[DPG21920]

Now this is an entirely different, and more interesting, direction for the discussion.

I've got to get on the road to Austin. I'll check in later.

Also, what the

[mystargtr34]

No. As explained in several posts.

Almost every single one of your posts implied that when i read it.. ill check my reading comprehension.

[ElNono]

Frankly, it's just a matter of opinion, and I know where Mel comes from. This season is going to be hurdle.

The sudden increase of minutes and stamina issues however, is something I thought has hurt the Spurs before in the postseason. It's difficult to increase an extra 10 mins or so a game while keeping a high level (like has happened with Manu before, or even Tiago last playoffs), especially when there's only a single day of rest and you might be traveling on that day.

If come playoffs time Blair continues with his current suckitude and Bonner pulls another choke job, I just hope Splitter can give us solid extended minutes if required.

[Nathan89]

Pop views Duncan and Splitter as centers and Blair and Bonner as power forwards. Splitter, in Pop's eyes, isn't competing with Blair and Bonner for minutes.

With this logic you would think Splitter would start when Duncan sits out. Nope.

[SpursFaninMS]

Made the trip up to Memphis last night for the game--first trip to the Forum (used to go down to NOLA for games but relocated closer to Memphis). What an absolutely dead atmosphere in the regular season. For shame with the improvements that franchise has made.

Can't say enough about Duncan's game last night. He won it for us at the end with his defense around the basket. He really had everything working.

I'm not as high on Splitter as most of you all, but he is doing what we need him to do right now...especially last night: Rebound, make your shots around the basket, make your free throws, play solid D.

Still don't understand why Pop won't stick with Duncan + Tiago late. I thought he was finally going to when both were in at about the 4 minute mark but of course, out trots Bonner. To his credit, Bonner had a great hustle play in the fourth to prevent an easy breakaway. He had a couple of strong boards late too (hey, anything he does on D is noteworthy).

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, Bonner has definitely been more of a driver this season than RJ, which is indeed a shocking turn of events. While RJ has lost athleticism, that's not the only thing that has changed because it's not like we see him even attempting layups. He's just much lazier and scared this year.

Looking back on it, it's almost like he's not willing to put his body on the line for a team that nearly amnestied him. That's the only explanation that makes sense to me.

I'm holding out hope that he's saving it for when it matters. The delusion goes like this: He was banged up and unable to explode (snicker) last year and just couldn't bring it in the playoffs.

[Seventyniner]

Mel, I think many of us are more concerned with Splitter's playoff MPG than regular season. We mainly want more minutes for Splitter in preparation for 30 MPG in the playoffs, not necessarily 30 MPG in the regular season.

I'd like to see something like 32 minutes one game, 15 the next, and alternate. That would keep the overall minutes down while giving Splitter a chance to get used to playing 32 in a game on a regular basis.

[therealtruth]

I'd say he needs to average 25MPG consistently with the ability to play 27-30 in the playoffs. That 25MPG shouldn't be the anomaly, it should be consistent.

In the games he's played over 25 minutes:

16/7/1 block on 77% FG
8/7 on 33% FG
12/7/2 on 71% FG
25/10 on 85% FG
5/8/2 on 28% FG - First game of the season

I just find it odd that Spurs fans imply we just happen to have the only players in the league that can't play normal minutes without being babied.

I agree. Pop's excuses for not playing him are ridiculous. Pop can start with Tiago and Tim then either bring in Blair for Tiago or Bonner for Duncan. That keeps the best lineups on the floor without too much Blair/Bonner. It allows Tiago to get consistent minutes and help establish some low post scoring and defense with Tim. Also Tiago draws more fouls and has a higher ft percentage than Blair.

[therealtruth]

Mel_13 seems to think Tiago cant handle more than 25 minutes a night.. it may be a valid concern but like DPG said he should be given a chance at it. I do notice Tiago get winded a little when hes played a stretch of more than 8-9 minutes. Its probably true he cant play more than that in a stretch.. but imo his minutes can be increased by giving him increased intervals of playing time at lower stretches.. which is what would happen in my scenario above.

Tiago sitting for the first 10 minutes of the game while Tim is playing is eating into both his playing time.. and his rest time. if that makes sense. Those 10 minutes on the bench isnt doing him any good in terms of rest since he hasnt been on the court obviously.

Exactly. Those minutes are probably minutes where he can have a greater impact by helping set the defensive tone and low post scoring. Sometimes Tim doesn't have the low post scoring go. Tiago could help him in those cases. He's almost always going to have the height advantage at the 4.

[therealtruth]

Made the trip up to Memphis last night for the game--first trip to the Forum (used to go down to NOLA for games but relocated closer to Memphis). What an absolutely dead atmosphere in the regular season. For shame with the improvements that franchise has made.

Can't say enough about Duncan's game last night. He won it for us at the end with his defense around the basket. He really had everything working.

I'm not as high on Splitter as most of you all, but he is doing what we need him to do right now...especially last night: Rebound, make your shots around the basket, make your free throws, play solid D.

Still don't understand why Pop won't stick with Duncan + Tiago late. I thought he was finally going to when both were in at about the 4 minute mark but of course, out trots Bonner. To his credit, Bonner had a great hustle play in the fourth to prevent an easy breakaway. He had a couple of strong boards late too (hey, anything he does on D is noteworthy).

Whenever Pop trots out Bonner in a defensive situation like the end of the game that tells me he no longer believes in defense. Bonner is in there for his offense. Anything he does defensively is a plus. If Pop doesn't trust defense to win games I doubt they'll advance far in the playoffs.

[z0sa]

We just disagree on that. Going from 28 minutes one night, to 14 the next isn't a defined role.

Something tells me you'd have no argument about roles if we switched Bonner and Splitter's minutes like so.

[z0sa]

Whenever Pop trots out Bonner in a defensive situation like the end of the game that tells me he no longer believes in defense. Bonner is in there for his offense. Anything he does defensively is a plus. If Pop doesn't trust defense to win games I doubt they'll advance far in the playoffs.

Do you simply not watch the games? Bonner rarely misses a rotation and shuts down multiple pick and roll plays with his footspeed almost every game.

Does he contest shots above the rim? No. But that does not make him an inadequate defender, as his +/- and advanced statistics have proven time and time again.

STOP judging Matt Bonner by the fact he is a white boy who can't jump. He has good foot speed for his size, is fairly lengthy despite the "T-rex arms" bull constantly being thrown around, and his BBIQ is actually rather high.

[maverick1948]

One problem with your grades. Blair was arguably the main reason we gave up the lead in the third quarter. He is useless and pathetic in terms of basketball IQ and it shows in every damn game. A D- at best tbh

Yep HE sure was the cause. We started the 3rd up by 6 and he left the game at the 6:56 mark NEVER to return. When he left we were up 9.

Now explain how it was his fault we gave the lead.

DeBear's grade was just fine. He can play better if he wants. It is his choice.

[letmk]

I agree with that Splitter and Tim playing together gives us the best chance to win, especially at the end of a game. However, we also have to consider what would happen when neither of them is on the court. That is, the combination of Blair and Bonner is the worst on the court.

I don't know about the real reason behind Pop's decision of not playing Splitter and Tim together much, but right now, keeping one of them on the court gives us a better chance to win from the perspective of the whole 48 mins.

Splitter's specific MPG number doesn't concern me nearly as much as Splitter being ready to play next to Duncan come playoff time. If Splitter played 20 MPG and it was split seven minutes to start the game, seven minutes to start the second half and the final six minutes of the game, I'd be fine with that.

[therealtruth]

Do you simply not watch the games? Bonner rarely misses a rotation and shuts down multiple pick and roll plays with his footspeed almost every game.

Does he contest shots above the rim? No. But that does not make him an inadequate defender, as his +/- and advanced statistics have proven time and time again.

STOP judging Matt Bonner by the fact he is a white boy who can't jump. He has good foot speed for his size, is fairly lengthy despite the "T-rex arms" bull constantly being thrown around, and his BBIQ is actually rather high.

I don't doubt his BBIQ. However, against the best teams being in the right position is not enough. You actually have to be able to challenge and block the occasional shot. With his lack of athleticism and length the minimum he should be doing is getting the rotations right. That's not something to praise him over.