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Oh fvcking great. Those are the two main thoroughfares I drive on in San Antonio. Sweet.
Now you're having reading comprehension problems. :p I never said toll roads don't work elsewhere, I said they wouldn't work well here. The IH35 sections that are proposed are going to cause construction headaches in an area that hasn't had that problem for years. The 1604 area around 35 works just fine and is hardly a congested area. So why make it one for years while these toll roads go up and only take part of the traffic burden? Overall tax increase would allow the creation of more lanes/road alternates that everyone can use and can be implemented during stages when they are needed.
The other part of this issue that burns me is that these toll roads will never go away. They are not used to simply fund themselves, but will be held onto tightly by government as a revenue stream. It's the same story as the lottery supposedly helping finance education. How has that worked so far?
Sorry if I don't sound too excited about paying and extra $1.50 to $3.00 EVERYDAY to my way to work and back. I don't even have that long a commute and I would still be screwed by this toll road plan. It actually would most likely encourage me to drive farther than pay the toll since that would be more cost effective for my daily drive. I know that;s not the case for everyone, but it seems like backward thinking to me.
Oh fvcking great. Those are the two main thoroughfares I drive on in San Antonio. Sweet.
Who has the comprehensive reading problem?
How many times does it need to be said before it's beaten into your skull.
All freeways being tolled and the interchanges being tolled will also have free lanes.
With 1604 it will be the current mainlanes, while the grassy median is then turned into toll lanes.
With highways that doesn't have toll roads, the access roads will be free.
With the interchanges, the current ramps and roads used will be free while new ramps are built that will be tolled.
And I'm at the 410/281 area everyday ... I'm really looking forward to that, too, but that's been a mess for a few years anyway. It'll be cool when it's done.
So on that projected map, we'd have to pay to go to a GTG at Kori's, too....
There are also free roads along the tollways in a lot of places. And they're great, especially if you like to drive 30 mph with stoplights instead of 65-70.
Don't think that these toll lanes will be entirely new. Some of the lanes may be cannibalized from existing highways.
- Tolled managed lanes: The existing mainlanes remain free, but additional lanes built in the median of the freeway would be tolled. These lanes would be barrier-separated and would have limited entry and exit points. It might be possible for these lanes to also double as HOV and/or bus lanes.
Those are the type of toll roads most of 1604 is getting and the entire I-35 north of Downtown is getting.
Mainlans stay open while the median is turned into toll.
Apparently you. You must have been so caught up with the opposite side of town to realize that the sections of 35 that User is referring to DON'T HAVE A BAD TRAFFIC PROBLEM to begin with, and adding all of that construction will only MAKE a problem...that's going to cost people money, time and frustration unnecessarily.
I hope you're right... but the easy way out is to steal lanes in places. Also, going over intersections is going to be expensive, so count on a lot of crossroads getting cut off.
You have a reading problem. According to your map the section of 1604 East of 35 will be tolled, right? Well there are no access roads at certain parts, so they will be either be tearing up the middle grassy area, or as your map indicated making the main lanes toll lanes and the access roads free. What happens where there are no access roads and 1604 is just one lane in each direction? Does that mean more construction? Well that's just great. Now I will spend more time on back roads avoiding that for the next 10 years while it is being built. All this for an area that doesn't even have that much congestion. They could add another lane each way and that would solve any traffic woes there for years, instead they want to do this.
And exactly how will the toll fees be added to 35 from 1604 to 410? There is no room to add anything but an upper deck or making current lanes toll lanes. Both of those ideas suck salty lemons!
Last edited by Useruser666; 07-06-2005 at 05:22 PM.
Salty lemons are good.
EDIT: Sucks broken beer bottles.
I-35 North doesn't have traffic problems?
Have you even driven the damn thing in traffic? Two years ago I had to drive the stretch of I-35 just past BAMC and up to Walzem at around 5 o'clock each day. And it sucked.
Here are the 1990-2003 daily traffic stats for 35:
An avg. of 83,000 cars per mile.
Maybe you should look at your chart and see that traffic actually decreased from 2002-03!
Also a 50% increase over 13 years is nothing. Now taking 1 of 3 lanes and reducing it's efficiency by 30%, that is something.
The entire starter system will be tolled through the median. The grassy median will be turned into toll lanes while the current mainlanes stay free.
50% over 13 years is something.Maybe you should look at your chart and see that traffic actually decreased from 2002-03!
Also a 50% increase over 13 years is nothing. Now taking 1 of 3 lanes and reducing it's efficiency by 30%, that is something.
And only 3 of those 11 sections monitored had reduced traffic.
One section downtown. And one section near 1604. And another way the past 1604.
I'd blame the one near 1604 on Wurzbach Parkway finally being complete in the northeast side during that time. The one downtown and one by the Bexar county line I have no clue why traffic reduced.
8 sections increaced by 77,000.
3 sections decreased by 14,000.
Last edited by BadlyDrawnBoy; 07-06-2005 at 05:44 PM.
If what you describe is true, then the toll isn't being effectively implemented, and thus voilates the only qualifier I placed on my statement. The toll should be set at the level that optimizes congestion across the entire system.
Then would those people want to then drive in a congestion free lane?That leads to alternate roads and pathways being influxed with traffic.
Because I know if I was on fire, and the water was clogged in my house, I wouldn't mind buying a bottle of water at the store to put myself out.
But what if that bottle of water cost you an extra $60-$75/mo you couldn't afford...but were still on fire?
60-70 dollars a month?
Isn't it going to be like 50 cents per toll booth.
And you still have the free lanes. If you don't want to pay, you don't have to.
keeping that clover on i-10/1604, if that works ill be amazed.With the interchanges, the current ramps and roads used will be free while new ramps are built that will be tolled.
wouldnt happen, if sa knew how to build interchangers on highways the right way, in the first place.
proposing only to have a center section wurzbach parkway tolled doesnt make sense. nothing like having wurzabach parkway end on oconner road then go through lights when the whole point of it was to take you to 35 and i-10.
Wurzbach Parkway isn't even finished yet.
Which is why I think Wurzbach would be tolled. To get funding quicker to complete the damn thing.
Depends on if it will be fifty cents to "enter", or if it's fifty cents per section like some toll roads. If I have to pass through several segments, then yeah, it's easily $60 a month for a work commute alone - much less personal travel.
In CA, it's per sections.
I didn't realize the rates were that high! Would San Antonio be that costly?
I especially love the ones where you have to pay TO GET OFF THE FREAKING HWY.
They have some sections like that in Houston.
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