No. They won't. History will remember Kobe as an incredibly stellar guard with the caveat that he took two separate teams with 3+ HOF LOCKS alongside and pissed them down the toilet because he couldn't control his ego. Kobe has had three HOF lock big men in history and has thrown every single one of them under the bus at some point.
He's not a leader, at least not in the entirely positive sense of the word. There will be many people who remember Kobe as the better player, but most real basketball fans are ALSO going to remember the times that Kobe literally destroyed his own le chances after they had been gifted to him complete with a little red bow on top. They're going to remember, and then they're going to look at Duncan, a guy who took a small market and in the face of a commish who never wanted to see them in the Finals, won 4(+?) les with the most successful sports franchise for 15 years. A guy who never, ever, ever threw a teammate under the bus, never had leadership issues, and was always nothing short of peerless at his position. Because when you wade into the "greatest of all-time" categories that accompany the top 10, everything counts.
According to whom?
"NBA people" and "analysts?" These are the same NBA people and analysts who are already talking up the Lebron/Jordan comparison despite the fact that Lebron has 5 less championships
Talk about facts, well, history is about facts (usually) and not opinions.
Facts of the matter are:
Duncan has better overall playoff stats.
Duncan is the better Finals performer.
More championships won as the best player on his team.
More Finals MVPs.
Those are the actual "facts of life."
Can't believe this re ation. Lmao
Pip was nowhere close to scoring as much points as MJ, never led in scoring for a series. Pip did not have the ball in his hand in the 4th quarter and clutch time. Was he even within single digit difference in PPG of Jordan? Shaq averaged less than 2 ppg the last two les of the 3peat. Kobe actually led the Lakers in scoring for multiple series each of those runs, half of them in the last two les and he also was the leader in the 4th quarter. It's incredible how ignorant you are.
well i sort of undestand why lakerfan would partake in such ridiculous views despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, when you have kobe's raping shlong so far deep down your throat, it inevitably cuts off the oxygen supply to the brain, making it very difficult to process simple information
That's cool. Doesn't change the fact that Kobe will be remembered as the greater player.According to whom?
"NBA people" and "analysts?" These are the same NBA people and analysts who are already talking up the Lebron/Jordan comparison despite the fact that Lebron has 5 less championships
Talk about facts, well, history is about facts (usually) and not opinions.
Facts of the matter are:
Duncan has better overall playoff stats.
Duncan is the better Finals performer.
More championships won as the best player on his team.
More Finals MVPs.
Those are the actual "facts of life."
He has 2 finals MVP's tho....no respect brah?
Yeah, saying that Kobe is at worst top 15 is absolutely giving him no respect. Come on now.
Kobe: 5 rings, most of his generation. Accused of sexual assault towards the San Antonio Spurs in the Playoffs.
Honestly, I am the biggest Tim Duncan hater. I despised the Spurs during the Lakers rivalry. I never got caught up in that Kings rivalry, or Portland, or anything. But the Spurs were the true rivals to the Lakers. But even I have to admit Tim Duncan, as stoic as he may be and so not LA, is a ing legend.
I got Duncan 1 spot behind Kobe, so obviously he is an all time great.
Game 1 of the 08 WCF...how can anyone think otherwise? The greatest of our generation so far.
Real talk, I believe Kobe's legacy should adhere to the same standards that have been in place for years now. Since Mikan was winning les with the Minny Lakers and Bill Russell was swatting shots for the Celtic dynasty, an individual player's legacy and his position on the all-time great list is typically determined by how many championships a player won as the team's centerpiece, especially in modern era player debates.
When you talk about Magic ruling the 80s, or Jordan ruling the 90s, they were definitively superior to their peers in pretty much every measurement you can think of. Finals MVPs, championships won as the lead player, statistically (Bird was actually better than Magic here, but Bird declining in 88 due to injury as Magic went on to repeat is what ultimately propelled Johnson over Bird all-time).
On the other hand, Kobe trails both Shaq and Duncan in pretty much everything as far as the post-season is concerned. So, logically speaking, how is he the "better player?"
Now if you put significant weight on the regular season, then I might buy your argument. But being Lakers fans, you guys usually give all about anything that has to do with the regular season.
Such compelling proof.
Game 4 of the 07 First Round...how could anyone think otherwise? Steve Nash was the rightful 2006 MVP and accused of sexual assault against the Los Angeles Lakers.
doesnt kobe hold the record for choke jobs in a series?
How does that carry any weight?
I hope you realize that Duncan has been the best performer other than Jordan (who only played against them for 5 games) against the Lakers in the playoffs in the modern era. Even better than Larry Bird.
25.2ppg, 13.6rpg, 4.2apg, 2.3bpg in 30 games.
Kobe: 28.2ppg, 5.8rpg, 4.7apg, 1.4spg.
So they sexually assaulted each other then.
Stats are pretty much a wash. So there goes your "Kobe owns Duncan in the playoffs" angle.
And hey, I can cherry pick too. Glad you brought up 08.
Game 4 and 6 of the 08 Finals...how can anyone think otherwise? The 3rd greatest of our generation so far.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...806120LAL.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...806170BOS.html
Why'd you exclude their Finals stats?
2001 Finals:
Kobe: 24.6 PPG, 7.8 RPG, 5.8 APG, .415 FG%
Shaq: 33 PPG, 15.8 RPG, 4.8 APG, .573 FG%
2002 Finals:
Kobe: 26.8 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 5.3 APG, .514 FG%
Shaq: 36.3 PPG, 12.3 RPG, 3.8 APG, .595 FG%
Also, 2000 playoffs:
Kobe: 21.1 PPG, 4.5 RPG, 4.4 APG, .442 FG%
Shaq: 30.7 PPG, 15.4 RPG, 3.1 APG, .556 FG%
2000 Finals:
Kobe: 15.6 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 4.2 APG, .367 FG%
Shaq: 38.0 PPG, 16.7 RPG, 2.3 APG, .612 FG%
Last edited by Kidd K; 02-14-2013 at 04:49 AM.
Now that's some re ation.
Either you were too young or still swimming around in a scrotum to have watched those Bulls teams play and have bought the Jordan myth hook-line-and-sinker. Or you're simply spouting nonsense in a pitiful attempt to strengthen your argument.
You know what made those Bulls teams so great in addition to Jordan? They played as a team. If your idiot brain wasn't covered in a thick layer of Kobe's semen, you'd remember the 4th quarter shots Paxon, Kerr, and yes, Pippen hit.
"Pippen didn't have the ball in his hands in the 4th quarter and clutch time."
So I take it in this game he scored 32 points in the first 3 quarters and just stopped shooting in the 4th so MJ could take over:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...106120LAL.html
He scored 9 in the 4th. "But he never had the ball in his hands in the 4th quarter and clutch time."
And again, why all the in' emphasis on scoring? So what if Pippen and Jordan's point averages weren't as close together as Kobe and Shaq's.
Do you realize Pippen lead that Bulls team in steals and rebounds? He was statistically better in two areas that Jordan himself was very good at as well. But only scoring matters. Rebounds don't equal rings or anything.
Close out game from the second le:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...206140CHI.html
Another game where Pippen scored a bunch of points in the first 3 quarters and "didn't touch the ball in the 4th quarter and clutch time" and just stood back and watched Michael close it out.
Now first apologize to me for being a moron. And then have your mother apologize to you for drinking too much when she was pregnant with you, which is why you are a moron.
And while we're at it, let's debunk that long believed myth that the Lakers never went to Shaq late in 4th during the 3 peat, and it was Kobe who closed teams out:
Article written in 02-03 season about who the league's best clutch player is.
"Yet for us ultimately the choice remains the same as it has been for some time: Shaquille O'Neal. Free throw shooting aside, no one comes close to scaring defenses like Shaq, and there are key areas where he rates head and shoulders above Nowitzki -- when the shot clock is running down, Nowitzki was only a 43.3% effective shooter compared to Shaq's 54.5%, more of Shaq's *baskets are unassisted, meaning he creates his own points more often, and finally when you need the unstoppable shot, the power slam, there's no one even close (19% of O'Neal's clutch shots are dunks, *half of them unassisted)."
http://www.82games.com/comm3.htm
Another "fact" that serves to put to rest this whole Shaq 1A, Kobe 1B nonsense (which is usually based on the premise that Kobe closed the games out).
*meaning Kobe wasn't playmaking for him in the 4th all that often. Another myth touted by idiot Kobe fans.
SA fan melting down while pulling an all nighter on ST...did you get you some sleep?
A+++ post, will read again and recommend to my friends
Either you were too young or still swimming around in a scrotum to have watched those Bulls teams play and have bought the Jordan myth hook-line-and-sinker. Or you're simply spouting nonsense in a pitiful attempt to strengthen your argument.
You know what made those Bulls teams so great in addition to Jordan? They played as a team. If your idiot brain wasn't covered in a thick layer of Kobe's semen, you'd remember the 4th quarter shots Paxon, Kerr, and yes, Pippen hit.
"Pippen didn't have the ball in his hands in the 4th quarter and clutch time."
So I take it in this game he scored 32 points in the first 3 quarters and just stopped shooting in the 4th so MJ could take over:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...106120LAL.html
He scored 9 in the 4th. "But he never had the ball in his hands in the 4th quarter and clutch time."
And again, why all the in' emphasis on scoring? So what if Pippen and Jordan's point averages weren't as close together as Kobe and Shaq's.
Do you realize Pippen lead that Bulls team in steals and rebounds? He was statistically better in two areas that Jordan himself was very good at as well. But only scoring matters. Rebounds don't equal rings or anything.
Close out game from the second le:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...206140CHI.html
Another game where Pippen scored a bunch of points in the first 3 quarters and "didn't touch the ball in the 4th quarter and clutch time" and just stood back and watched Michael close it out.
Now first apologize to me for being a moron. And then have your mother apologize to you for drinking too much when she was pregnant with you, which is why you are a moron.
mid just going in raw on some fools par/per
No he doesn't. His team is 27-2 with HCA, 27-0 after winning game 1. I don't know where you came to that conclusion lol
Wait... So now average stats count?
WTF
Nobody said that Shaq never was scoring in the 4th.
Kobe was the leader in points in the 4th quarter of the 2002 NBA playoffs, also 2001 but most of those game did not come down to the wire. In the most important possession of the season, down by 1 with under 30 seconds left in game 7 of the 02 WCF, guess who had the ball?
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