How many of you people...

[Guru of Nothing]

I was joking.

Maybe this is God Thread #3.

[jochhejaam]

Care to jump in and present a unified Christian voice?



Didn't think so.

o there Guru. Sure, I'll jump in.

I don't speak for all Christians so I cannot present a unified voice.

However there are "cornerstone' verses and teachings found in Scripture that many denominations and religious bodies would say are areas of agreement.

One is the emphasis on love. Jesus Christ was asked "what are the 2 greatest commandments" and He replied;
1. "Love the Lord you God with all of your soul, mind and heart.
2. Love your neighbor as yourself".

God is the essence of love so it is critically important to be united in presenting this essential quality with one voice. The importance and truth of this is demonstrated in the Book of 1 John 4th Chapter;

7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him.

10. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

11. Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

12. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

God's Word is the perfect Message. Unfortunely He has imperfect messengers interpreting and teaching it so there will be areas of disagreement. Perfect Message - Imperfect Messengers

There are many more but long threads have a tendency to lose readers so I might post more important similarities later on in this thread.

[jochhejaam]

Separate post.

Taken from 1 Corinthinas 13

Love is the over-riding theme in the Bible and therefore it cannot be over emphasized. So I'm sticking with the unity among denominatons/religious bodies regarding love.

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

[Guru of Nothing]

o there Guru. Sure, I'll jump in.

I don't speak for all Christians so I cannot present a unified voice.

However there are "cornerstone' verses and teachings found in Scripture that many denominatoins and religious bodies would say are areas of agreement.

So, Faith or Deeds? How best to get to Heaven?

[Marcus Bryant]

Faith motivates the deeds. At least that's the concept.

[jochhejaam]

So, Faith or Deeds? How best to get to Heaven?

Here is another verse, google it for the exact chapter/verse.

"Let every man work out his own salvation with fear and trembling".

[scott]

With or without?

Just getting clarification...

[jochhejaam]

Faith motivates the deeds. At least that's the concept.

Romans says "we are justified by faith" and the Book of James stresses the importance of works and I think what I like to see is what MB said here that faith brings about the realization of salvation and with this true conversion action/works should follow.

[scott]

Romans says "we are justified by faith" and the Book of James stresses the importance of works and I think what I like to see is what MB said here that faith brings about the realization of salvation and with this true conversion action/works should follow.

What makes the acts of the man with faith better than the acts of the man without it, if the acts are completely the same?

[Guru of Nothing]

faith brings about the realization of salvation and with this true conversion action/works should follow.

Well, faith may bring about the realization of salvation, but does it promise it?

[jochhejaam]

What makes the acts of the man with faith better than the acts of the man without it, if the acts are completely the same?

I'm assuming you mean comparable acts?

The act isn't better of worse. The differences that were mentioned in this thread were that some preach/teach salvation by works and others salvation by faith. The teaching doesn't need to be exclusionary,... both, either, God isn't going to stick it to someone over semantics. He examines the heart of His people and if it's in the right place you get this

[scott]

No, not comparable acts... identical acts.

But... it sounds like your answer is "works."

[jochhejaam]

Well, faith may bring about the realization of salvation, but does it promise it?

Yes.


From the Book of John
"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life".

[jochhejaam]

No, not comparable acts... identical acts.

But... it sounds like your answer is "works."

No, I didn't imply that scott, read it again.

Originally posted by jochhejaam: The act isn't better of worse. The differences that were mentioned in this thread were that some preach/teach salvation by works and others salvation by faith. The teaching doesn't need to be exclusionary,... "both, either", God isn't going to stick it to someone over semantics. He examines the heart of His people and if it's in the right place you get this

[scott]

Say the "heart" of my deeds, which are the same as the deeds of the man with faith - are driven by just thinking that is the way you should treat others... is that "heart" good enough?

[jochhejaam]

This is just begging for an "Oh... well if John said so - that's all you needed to say!" comment.

The quotations were wrapped around the words of Jesus, not the words of John.

[jochhejaam]

Say the "heart" of my deeds, which are the same as the deeds of the man with faith - are driven by just thinking that is the way you should treat others... is that "heart" good enough?

Good enough for what scott? For God to allow you to enter heaven? It's certainly not my call.

My understanding is that we will be judged based upon the knowledge we have received. If you are aware of God's plan of salvation and deliberately tempt God by trying to enter heaven by another means my guess would be that you probably would not make it. You can't rebel against God and please him at the same time.

One of the things that Jesus Christ said to Satan when he was tempted by him was; "It is written, you shall not tempt the Lord your God". He is a God of mercy and a God of Wrath and His Wrath is just as righteous as His mercy.

The more one communes with God and studies the Scriptures the clearer his understanding of what is written becomes.

[scott]

What's to decipher? I wrote it in english...

It's not too different from my previous question, which I think you did a good job of trying to answer... but not answering.

I'll make it simpler...

GuyWithFaith does some acts, which are considered good, and God admits him into heaven.

GuyWithoutFaith does the same acts, and basically lives the same life... just doesn't have that faith. Does God admit him into heaven too - or is he hung out to dry? GuyWithoutFaith isn't malicious in his lack of faith. He just doesn't have it.

If the answer is yes... then it would appear your answer is "works."

If the answer is no... then it would appear your answer is "faith."

[jochhejaam]

What's to decipher? I wrote it in english...

It's not too different from my previous question, which I think you did a good job of trying to answer... but not answering.

I'll make it simpler...

GuyWithFaith does some acts, which are considered good, and God admits him into heaven.

GuyWithoutFaith does the same acts, and basically lives the same life... just doesn't have that faith. Does God admit him into heaven too - or is he hung out to dry? GuyWithoutFaith isn't malicious in his lack of faith. He just doesn't have it.

If the answer is yes... then it would appear your answer is "works."

If the answer is no... then it would appear your answer is "faith."

Scott, I edited my previous post and I believe it's right above yours.

[scott]

So... the answer is faith?

[Swishy McJackass]

It would appear so.

I'm ed... despite all my good works.

[E20]

12. No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

Contradiction.......

[jochhejaam]

Quote from Corinthians: No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

Contradiction.......

1. Visual of God. Actually seeing Him with our own eyes.

2. God is Love,; If we accept Him and His plan for salvation that is evidenced by a new found love, that is, we have taken on a new nature.

Actually seeing vs. experiencing/having His nature.

No contradiction there.

"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or touched. They must be felt with the heart." -Helen Keller-

"Have you ever seen God? I have never seen the wind, yet I have seen the effects of the wind." -Billy Graham-

[smeagol]

jochhejaam does a much better job than myself defending my beliefs.

[SWC Bonfire]

People like Scott and Manny just want to stir the ant mound and get us fighting against each other.

And Swishy McJackass is just a ing bunghole.