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What luxury did Duncan have over Lebron, LeBron won rings with much more help... LeBron even cost Wade a ring in 2011 when he choked big time...
Can we save these arguments for after Lebron's athleticism declines? Or at least when he wins one with a supporting cast akin to 2003 Spurs?
Also, aside from transition highlight dunks (which personally I really don't care about but I understand those who do), Lebron's game is absolutely putrid to watch compared to most of the alltime greats save maybe Shaq. Even Shaq was relatively exciting simply because it was a spectacle to see such a physically dominant giant of a man. In the halfcourt Lebron is an NFL linebacker that can dribble through people and make layups. Effective, hard to guard, but just kinda boring IMO. He's a good-not-great passer, a good-not-great shooter, and always a great box score, but when you look at Lebron highlights on Youtube it's just fastbreak dunks, alley-oops, and bulldoze layups.
From a speculative standpoint, I never really get this sense that Lebron is willing his team to victory in the same way that MJ/Kobe/TD did. This probably has to do with having a better supporting cast or the less iso-centric league in general, but I seldom watch a Heat game and think "Wow Lebron was unstoppable tonight, he could've beaten the martians from space jam". It's always just a passive "Yep, Lebron was the best player on the court and the Heat won."
I wonder whether OP thinks LBJ would be as successful in the era of prime Duncan, Shaq, Webber, KG, Yao, Mutombo, Wallace, etc? What prime bigs can Lebron say he's overcome? Dwert? Joakim Noah?
What luxury did Duncan have over Lebron, LeBron won rings with much more help... LeBron even cost Wade a ring in 2011 when he choked big time...
Lebron won a solo le last year..his 2nd option averaged 15 PPG and had net-negative on/off metrics, and his 3rd option averaged 12 PPG and constantly disappeared in the playoffs..
And Kobe as a scorer is as good as anybody in history, sure, but he's nowhere near any of these players in these arguments..he ranks relatively poorly in virtually every advanced metric and had more support than any player in any of these arguments, too..he's also been a proven cancer in the latter part of his career, sabotaging a stacked Lakers team in 2012 and killing the Lakers future by accepting one of the worst contracts in history..
bump this thread when Lebron is 38, then we can have a sane comparison... you'll also need to watch the TD in his prime on a daily basis to get an idea of his level ...
Last edited by biskvito; 05-25-2014 at 04:01 PM.
Old DRob > the trash Cleveland put around LeBron
Duncan also had Pop, whereas LeBron had Paul Silas, Brendan Malone, and Mike Brown
Let's be clear about something. Lebron nearly cost his team a championship if it wasn't for a massive choke job and a clutch three from Allen. It's clever how you worded it. Had the Spurs won, you'd be blaming the rest of the team for losing it for Lebron but, since they won, Lebron did it solo.Lebron won a solo le last year
How exactly did Lebron nearly cost his team a le?..he was literally the only Heat player that initiated their offense during the Finals, while guarding the Spurs best player for the last 2 games of the series
And "that" is exactly the "problem" with "opinions", they are like assholes, everyone has one, and no one thinks theirs stink!
Look everybody, ChumpLegHumper just took a dump in another thread!
(FIFY)
This is par for his course tbh.
Doesn't need to be said IMHO.
Two costly TO's in the closing minutes of Game 6 along with some badly clanked three's, one of which was so bad , it caromed to Bosh, who dished to Allen for three. I know you want to make this all about Lebron, but Dwayne Wade had a pretty good series and he wasn't even at 100%.How exactly did Lebron nearly cost his team a le?..he was literally the only Heat player that initiated their offense during the Finals, while guarding the Spurs best player for the last 2 games of the series
Game 1: 17 points 7-15 FG
Game 2: 10 points, 6 assists 5-13 FG
Game 3: 16 points , 5 assists, 4 steals 7-15 FG
Game 4: 32 points, 6 steals 14-25 FG
Game 5: 25 points, 10 assists 10-22 FG
Game 6: 14 points 6-15 FG
Game 7: 23 points, 10 Rebounds 11-21 FG
Had Lebron been on his own and had the Spurs been healthy, they don't win the series.
By guarding the Spurs best player, I think you mean a hobbled Tony Parker who could at times, barely get up the floor.
The Heat were -54 in the series when Wade was on the floor
He only averaged 15 PPG for the playoffs and was a net negative, overall, sadly..
And can't forget the great Chris Bosh that averaged 12 and 7 for the playoffs while being decimated and destroyed by Roy Hibbert, David West and Tim Duncan..
A pretty worthless measurement when gauging one's performance unless your referring to the great white hope, in which case, it's OK. For example, Lebron was a +/- 0 in the finals; Mario Chamers was a + 32. Should Chalmers be Finals MVP?The Heat were -54 in the series when Wade was on the floor
He only averaged 15 PPG for the playoffs and was a net negative, overall, sadly..
Chris Bosh is getting destroyed this postseason as well. Nothing new there. He's mentally weak.The Heat were -54 in the series when Wade was on the floor
He only averaged 15 PPG for the playoffs and was a net negative, overall, sadly..
And can't forget the great Chris Bosh that averaged 12 and 7 for the playoffs while being decimated and destroyed by Roy Hibbert, David West and Tim Duncan..
Chalmers' usage is nowhere near those players, obviously..
Lebron and Wade had similar usage rates in the Finals/playoffs, yet one of them was vastly superior to the other in on/off metrics, along with off/def rating metrics..
I'm not really sure how anybody can argue for Wade's value in the playoffs..his struggles were widely discussed/recognized by everybody last year, he was pretty awful..he looks much better this season..
How many of these guys have won a le or even competing without a superstar free agent coming onboard or having multiple lottery picks. Timmy has had neither - no pick inside of 20 since he joined (the top two highest drafted guys on the team besides him are Kawhi and Daye at #15, and neither were the Spurs' pick) and no tier 1 free agent.
u mean the trash, as in Illgauskus that was playing every good when lebron was getting shut down by the celtics in the 2nd round of 2008? that trash?Old DRob > the trash Cleveland put around LeBron
Duncan also had Pop, whereas LeBron had Paul Silas, Brendan Malone, and Mike Brown
Still think TD has gotten a fair shake in his career after Game 3?
Or is the NBA all tullips and flowers of fair play, and unbiased officiating?
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