MORE INFO: Man who was shot dead on London subway.

[1369]

Sure, if that guy is some Brazilian dude..

Smeagol, that statement got me to thinking, in all my travels in South America, what is with the intense hatred/rivalry between Argentina and Brazil? I've been in both places numerous times and seen/heard it in both countries.

[Extra Stout]

By the way, before anyone brings up Germany...

1)They declared war on us,

2)America's role in the European theater was smaller than its role in the Pacific theater,

3)The Soviet Union did the majority of the work to defeat Hitler and the nazis, but of course we couldn't say that during the Cold War for propaganda reasons.

My apologies for hijacking the thread... back to the original topic...

The death of 3,000 is significant, but not as much as the demonstration that terrorists can inflict major casualties and economic damage on American soil with relatively little investment.

It's the specter of millions of casualties that has us motivated. Once that event happens, our options are much more limited, and involve a lot more indiscriminate killing.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Smeagol, that statement got me to thinking, in all my travels in South America, what is with the intense hatred/rivalry between Argentina and Brazil? I've been in both places numerous times and seen/heard it in both countries.

There's an intense sports rivalry between our two countries, but I wouldn't say there's an intense hatred. Our relations as neighboring countries is very good. In fact, we depend on each other to very high extent, economically and politically. Those who hate Brazil because of a stupid sports rivalry are ignorant morons who don't understand the nature of a sports rivalry. Suffice to say, I don't believe they are the majority. However, I might just be overly optimistic.

[Extra Stout]

What I'm disputing is the assertion that the victim was shot because he resisted arrest. That's wrong. He was shot because of bad intelligence.

I have no problem with the police procedure, given their intel. But now that the intel has proven to be wrong, somebody on the intel side needs to be held accountable.

And the authoritarian/proto-fascist response would be that disciplining police for the error might make them think twice before shooting a suspect the next time around.

You're coming from the republican perspective that individuals have rights, and when those rights are grossly violated by authorities that the authorities must be held accountable.

Clan's perspective is that the interests of the state are so much more important than the rights of the individual, in this case because the state must protect the population at large, that the death of the innocent individual is not very significant.

This is very much in the vein of thought of a Franco or a Mussolini in deciding these sort of trade-offs.

[1369]

I knew the sports rivalry existed, when I was in Cordoba last year it was around the time the (I think I have this right) Argentina national team lost to Brazil and from what I could gather, everyone in the country wanted to run the coach and players out of the country.

[Clandestino]

Clan's perspective is that the interests of the state are so much more important than the rights of the individual, in this case because the state must protect the population at large, that the death of the innocent individual is not very significant.

not the state admin, the general population... if someone can't be arrested bc we aren't 100% sure and then he kills a few hundred people.. that is bull ..

also, when dealing with terrorists you can't just walk up to them and arrest them.. they could easily detonate their bomb in that time... israel has showed up what to do... yes, this was an unfortunate mistake, but i'm willing to lose 1 person over hundreds any day...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I knew the sports rivalry existed, when I was in Cordoba last year it was around the time the (I think I have this right) Argentina national team lost to Brazil and from what I could gather, everyone in the country wanted to run the coach and players out of the country.

Everyone is dissapointed with losing, especially to Brasil, our long time nemesis (sports wise). Which is ridiculous because Brasil is the best in the world in soccer and its understandable that losing to them is no shame. The rivalry in question prevents such a realization from most people. Although, I do think you're overreacting. The coach and the players did not get that much heat from that loss.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

not the state admin, the general population... if someone can't be arrested bc we aren't 100% sure and then he kills a few hundred people.. that is bull ..

also, when dealing with terrorists you can't just walk up to them and arrest them.. they could easily detonate their bomb in that time... israel has showed up what to do... yes, this was an unfortunate mistake, but i'm willing to lose 1 person over hundreds any day...

Like I said before, lets hope the next person to be shot is someone who thinks exactly like you!

[smeagol]

Smeagol, that statement got me to thinking, in all my travels in South America, what is with the intense hatred/rivalry between Argentina and Brazil? I've been in both places numerous times and seen/heard it in both countries.

Actually my statement was not derogatory to Brazilians. I was just stating the fact that the guy that was killed in the London tube was from Brazil (and also implying that if the guy were American, I’m sure some of the posters who were quick to defend the London Police, i.e. Clan, TRO, Hook, would’ve proly been more careful with their initial comments).

The Argie / Brazilian rivalry has to do mostly with soccer, although it extends to other sports. I don’t think there is hatred, though. I personally find the Brazilians fun people. I have no problem whatsoever with them, except when they become y and rub in my face their five Soccer World Championships.

This is exactly how I feel about Americans. I feel you guys are great until some of you become y and start looking down on the rest of the World.

[Vashner]

I think the Bobbies Long term resistance to US "cowboy" pistol toting is biting them in the ass.

They should talk to San Antonio Police.. they are EXPERTS in dealing with officer shootings and the aftermath..

Scotland Yard are Virgins when it comes to gun use by officers..
Heck they so stupid they sent UNARMED bobbies to a Al Queda "safe house" after 9/11 and wound up getting a father of 2 killed when they had racks of MP5 carbines sitting with dust on them.

[MannyIsGod]

I've been saying for the longest time that Clan embodies exactly what he supports fighting against in places such as Iraq.

But I digress, it becomes more and more apparent just how many people on this board recognize his idiocy with each passing day.