Cavs fans feel the refs cost them the game

[FkLA]

The 5 les are a pretty significant argument; Jordan's 6 and Russell's 11 are generally noted as the premier accomplishments of their careers and the fundamental bona fides for their inclusion in any historical Top 5. Tim Duncan's 5th all but ensured that he will retire as a Top 10 all-time player.

I'm not going to try to spell out Kobe's resume, but I will say again that I don't think an argument that Kobe Bryant has had a better career than Lebron James at this juncture is in any way unreasonable. Kobe's got hardware that Lebron can't match; Kobe's got production that Lebron hasn't matched yet; Kobe's got monstrous performances in big games and big moments that are indelibly a part of his NBA legacy -- and, arguably, he has far more of those kinds of performances than Lebron does (and most of the time, he's had to get through a difficult Western Conference without the cushion of getting a couple of walkovers to get him into the latter rounds of the playoffs; and when he was younger, his teams ran that gauntlet with some consistency).

It's all a matter of taste and subjective evaluations, but there's ample room to argue that Kobe Bryant's resume is among the very best ever.

Ranking him, at the end of his career, slightly ahead of Lebron in the middle of his career is pretty reasonable.

That type of comparison suggests both have been in comparable situations when that couldn't be further from the truth.. LA has a huge advantage over every NBA franchise, or atleast did until Kobe ran everyone off. Cleveland sports on the other hand had a stink surrounding them prior to Bron. I'm not give a guy the nod just bc he forced his way to an infinitely better position.

[Venti Quattro]

He's probably Top 5 ever at getting his own shot. And it's not like I'm calling him a scrub, I have him atleast Top 15. But his selfishness is a legit weakness of his. The frontlines and squads he had during le years allowed him to just focus on what he does best which is why the Lakers enjoyed success during his tenure. We've all seen the result the 4-5 years were he doesn't have dominant players by his side though. The results aren't any different than what Tmac, AI or VC did in similar situations. I mean thats a fact not just an opinion of mine.

He was selfish at times during his career, yes, and he was one of the factors that cost the Lakers the 2004 le. Also he's an ass wipe. These are the facts that I won't even try to deny.

But how many le teams aside from Jordan's Bulls and Bron's Heat were able to win without a dominant post and inside presence? Even Isiah needed Laimbeer and Rodman, Jordan needed Horace Grant and Rodman, and LeBron has been already beaten thrice by teams with a legitimate post presence. The odds of winning a championship in the NBA without a HOF (or at least really dominant) guard-big man combination are low, and it's even lower in the Wild Wild West. These are facts you can't deny as well.

Also, that's the Lakers formula of success. West and Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar and Johnson, O'Neal and Bryant, Gasol and Bryant. Kobe has been blessed and, thankfully, patient enough to be given two HOF big men by the Lakers front office. At the end of the day he did his part despite his obvious flaws.

[FromWayDowntown]

That type of comparison suggests both have been in comparable situations. LA has a huge advantage over every NBA franchise, or atleast did until Kobe ran everyone off. Cleveland sports on the other hand had a stink surrounding them prior to Bron. I'm not give a guy the nod just bc he forced his way to an infinitely better position.

All Cleveland sports has to show for itself is that Lebron won 2 MVPs while playing there and got swept in the Finals while his teams underperformed their seed in the playoffs in both 2009 and 2010.

Also, Lebron can't seriously be in the conversation without the 2 rings he won in Miami, which he got -- oh by the way -- by "forcing his way to an infinitely better position."

[apalisoc_9]

That type of comparison suggests both have been in comparable situations when that couldn't be further from the truth.. LA has a huge advantage over every NBA franchise, or atleast did until Kobe ran everyone off. Cleveland sports on the other hand had a stink surrounding them prior to Bron. I'm not give a guy the nod just bc he forced his way to an infinitely better position.

Yup..

[FkLA]

All Cleveland sports has to show for itself is that Lebron won 2 MVPs while playing there and got swept in the Finals while his teams underperformed their seed in the playoffs in both 2009 and 2010.

Also, Lebron can't seriously be in the conversation without the 2 rings he won in Miami, which he got -- oh by the way -- by "forcing his way to an infinitely better position."

Which is a whole lot more than what LA can say when Kobe has had comparable talent.

So basically, Bron proved that his 'failures' in Cleveland had more to do with the situation he was in? Put him in a great situation and it's 4 finals appearances, 2 les and 2 FMVPs.

[Barfunk]

Those gots suck

Lol no

E.1999 Eternal

[FromWayDowntown]

Put him in a great situation [in the Eastern Conference] and it's 4 finals appearances, 2 les and 2 FMVPs.

Yup.

[baseline bum]

Lol no

E.1999 Eternal

You respond by citing an album where they sing like a bunch of s? Only good album they ever made was Creepin. It's sad, when Thuggish Ruggish dropped they were poised to be the best hardcore crew since NWA but then they went soft in Eternal. Only good song off that piece of album was Shotz. Only hard song on that tape.

[MI21]

This thread is weird,

We have people discussing gangsta rap, Spurs fans defending Kobe and discussions about LeBron's greatness all from a thread about Cavs fans and referees.

[heyheymymy]

This thread is weird,

We have people discussing gangsta rap, Spurs fans defending Kobe and discussions about LeBron's greatness all from a thread about Cavs fans and referees.

feels like a party everyones here and 4 different conversations going on.