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Apparently he/she/it has nothing better to do with his/her/its life than argue online with 'convenience store clerks' all day long.
Well last time I checked San Antonio wasn't looting nothing. Tom Benson is the one that came to San Antonio first. Not to mention for the past 6 years, Benson has wanted the saints to come to san antonio. Benson owns the team and if wants to play in san antonio, that's fine with me
San Antonio vs. New Orleans
More fortune 500 companies= San Antonio
Bigger Population= San Antonio
Bigger television market= San Antonio
No state income tax=San Antonio
Where does Benson have his investments=San Antonio
Get the point people. San Antonio overall is better in supporting an nfl team than new orleans. That's why Benson wants to come here. Did I mention Texas is a football state.
Apparently he/she/it has nothing better to do with his/her/its life than argue online with 'convenience store clerks' all day long.
Ah, one of the bad Piston fans then.
Thank you for proving my point. Your post proves that all San Antonio is interested in stealing the Saints.
You probably would lift the wallet of an accident victim before calling an ambulance.
nah the city of new orleans would do that.
You may get a football team.
You my friend, get the link
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php
Stealing the Saints? The Saints are going to have to relocate, San Antonio is trying to seize that moment in which we have a great opportunity to get an NFL team.
San Antonio Santos?
Gooo Santos!
How does one know if they can afford season tickets for the NFL?? How much are they or would be?? I think it would be exciting to get the NFL in here and would probably go to one or two games a season if I could afford it, however if I had to pick due to financial concerns, I would rather buy tickets to a Spurs game .
SA could back this right? Were they not ready to give the farm to a MLS soccer team? With dome naming rights if I saw correct. Give that to a NFL team that most SAers would care about.
Are you ready for the city to spend between $500 and $700 million for the NFL to call S.A. home?
Exactly. The only realistic way a NFL team would be viable in South Central Texas is to involve the Austin market in a significant way. That means placing the stadium somewhere between New Braunfels and San Marcos just off I-35.
San Antonio does not have the corporate base nor the demographic profile (per capita income, # of TV households, etc...) to be attractive on its own.
Isn't San Antonio the 8th largest city in America? I bet there's a T.V. in every household. With Toyota and it's suppliers coming into town per capita income will be raised. Employees will see the domino effect in higher salaries due to compe ion for employees by employers. If Toyota steps in like it has everywhere else it has a plant and commits big bank, It can work. Suites can be built inside the dome. Just give Toyota naming rights to the dome. One cannot say Austin residents or corporation wouldn't get involved in supporting a NFL franchise in there own backyard. Unless they have insight from every corporation in the area. I go to Univ of Texas games in Austin every year, so why wouldn't residents of Austin and surrounding areas drive down I35 for a NFL game of their choice?
What matters more is metro size. SA is far down the TV households list and Toyota isn't going to be enough. Unless an effort is made to include Austin substantively, the market is not going to be that attractive.
Naming rights will not raise the $ necessary to build a new facility.
Austin will support the Longhorns first before supporting any S.A. football team.
We may be the 8th largest city in the U.S. but our TV market size is 37, granted it's a few notches higher than New Orleans (43) but is that a significant difference?
Many people are saying, people will buy tickets but in the past, the city has never stepped up. The apathetic mentality the city has had in the past has given a perception that we do not want NFL football here. Not just preseason but previous S.A. pro football ventures.
It's more than having a season ticket drive but actually putting up, at minimum, half a billion dollars to land the NFL in San Antonio, money the ciy does not have.
How does small T.V. market Green Bay, Minn, Buffalo, NO, etc, afford a NFL team? The T.V. market argument is BS, especially with networks such as DirecTV, Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, ESPN, are given the rights to broadcast games nation wide. What I would like to know is how many people in this area subscribe to the DirecTV NFL Ticket like myself. The T.V money is shared by every team anyway, regardless of whom or where they play. Somebody is going to watch them in one area of the country or another.
San Antonio has never hosted a regular season NFL game. so where are you getting " the city has never stepped up" argument? In the NFL, 95 to 99% preseason games never sell out, even in the number one T.V. market of New York. It's not fair to compare preseason to regular season. I bet if you were to look up attendance levels during that week New Orleans played the Vikings here, San Antonio had a better attendance than some or maybe all of the higher markets. With the USFL in San Antonio, that league wasn't going to be sucessful from the start, and were mainly located in really small populated markets. They couldn't compete with the NFL. Even in the drafting of the players. If you were a top prospect during the time the USFL and NFL were competing for players, which league would you choose? I don't know the exact attendance for the Gun Slingers, but I bet it was in the top 5 in the league for second tier football. All of Texas is a football State. The last time I checked, San Antonio is included.
If the Saints say they want to relocate here, the city, or voters probably will, probablay won't, vote for the Saints as a permenent member of the city. In the short term it's a quick fix for the Saints to play here. I'm going to the games if they play here! I'm sure many of the military personnel stationed in this area from all different areas of the country (which number in the 10's of thousands) would attend the games as well.
Minneapolis-St. Paul's TV market dwarfs SA's. Green Bay and NO are oddities in the NFL.
The TV households issue is reality. Who wants to put a team in the middle of a small TV market that has a low per capital income average to boot? If Benson is going to move out of such a market why go to a similiar one? Especially one in which a new stadium is not exactly a realistic expectation.
If he keeps the team in NO, then he's likely to get the new stadium deal that he wanted all along.
SA is going to be used as leverage to get Benson what he wants.
I can see that happening. He used San Antonio before, he'll probably do it again with the city of New Orleans. There's talk of the Superdome having to be torn down competely. Maybe there won't be an arugument this time on a new stadium. I just want to go see some football here in San Antonio and not on T.V.
Well...If the Saints do end up permanently relocating to San Antonio....I think I kind of would prefer that they change their name to something original (like the Oilers to ans when they left Houston) so that once New Orleans is capable of supporting an NFL team again....they will be able to keep the Saints name.
Sure San Antonio Saints has a nice ring to it....but the Saints name should still be linked with New Orleans. Besides....that Lafleur symbol the Saints use reflects the citys french heritage so wouldnt make sense in SA.
The T.V. markets are key to the contracts between the networks and the NFL, high ratings bring in high advertising dollars which lead to profits of course and high ratings for other programming. When the NFL left CBS, ratings for "60 Minutes" dropped. The show no longer had an NFL lead-in.
If T.V. markets were not a factor, we wouldn't be seeing high broadcasting rights to these events. When New Orleans, Buffalo, etc. were given frachises, television wasn't key to the NFL. Now TV is the lifeblood for the NFL and all sports leagues, which is why the NFL is desperately trying to land a franchise in Los Angeles. Even with cable packages and satellite, they are still small when compared to the major networks and what the NFL can do for that network. Ratings is the key for it starts a domino effect, a positive one, affecting so many other programming and revenue.
FYI: link to current ranking of TV markets http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html
Of course NFL cities won't sell out preseason (exhibition) games cause they have eight regular season games, they have a team and are not trying to obtain one.
San Antonio had 46.752 for the last preseason game here and tickets were on sale for one year (I was at the game), blacked-out locally and I considered that a disappointment. The apathetic response the city had for this preseason game, in my opinion, wasn't the response we, as a city, needed to give. I do remember, it was loud for 45,000 but I'm certain NFL circles were not impressived. To send the right statement to the NFL, that game needed to be a sellout with an over-enthusiastic crowd.
When Bud Adams had the Oilers play two exhibition games in the Alamodome, attendance was disappointing, less than 30,000 for one game and just over 40,000 for the next. At the time, he basically said, if the city wants a team they have to do better than this.
That left an impression on him, a bad impression, that when he decided to move the Oilers out of Houston, San Antonio was never on his mind.
Gunslingers attendance the first year was (approx) 14,000 and 11,000. I mention past leagues because it has played into the perception that the city cannot support pro football. Jacksonville, Fla, with a smaller TV market, has shown tremendous support in previous leagues, even averaging 45,000 for the USFL. The fans apathy, mentality of "it's not the NFL" hasn't worked, hasn't impressed anyone. Jacksonville wasn't afraid to be used as a bargaining chip, had city government support something this city has refused to do, except for the cosmetic - make sure this gets on TV - photo ops.
Tom Landry when he was a minority owner with the Riders said, support this team and it will help you land an NFL team. Sure, you can say he was trying to get people in the seats for his team, but he was right.
Look at the reasoning the NFL is using against San Antonio, cannot sellout the Alamodome. They didn't come up with reason out of the nowhere. You trying to make an impression on people and apathy is not the way to do it. The Texas is a football state reasoning isn't working plus San Antonio certainly hasn't lived up to that reputation.
Short term, it will be a grand opportunity for San Antonio. For this season, if the Saints can give us three games, its an opportunity for the city to prove a point - all quick sellouts, then its a step in the right direction, especially in removing the "lack of support" tag.. Then the city government will have to take over and go beyond the cosmetic photo ops and soundbites.
I've stated previously that season tickets and attendance are not the only factors for getting a team. The city will have to practically give up the farm to land a team. There will be NO voter referendum, Saints will say, "we'll come but what do you have to offer?" This will be determined by city council in what to offer the NFL in getting a team here. I can think of two council members, off hand, that will be against it just on principle.
How about others?
Thanks for that T.V ratings link site. great info.
I thought that the rights to broadcast NFL games were on contract for X-amount of games for, X-amount of years, for X-amount of dollars. How does advertising dollars play a part when it's already under contract with the networks? Do the teams get an extra cut for high viewing attendance? If they do, seems like the NFL is double dipping to me.
I agree San Antonio has to prove everyone wrong with the attendance issue. If the decide to play here, I'm commited to going.
Saints home games are:
Buffalo, Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, Tampa Bay, Carolina, and Detroit
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Largest...n_the_Americas
Here are all the moves and/or expansions in the NFL in the last 20 years, with 2000's metro populations. Bolds are higher than SA, italics are lower.
Population of Indianapolis ('84): 1,796,535
Population of Phoenix ('88): 3,792,251
Population of Jacksonville ('93): 1,214,124
Population of Charlotte ('93): 1,658,157
Population of St Louis ('95): 2,629,256
Population of Oakland ('95): 7,533,837 (W/ San Francisco and San Jose)
Population of Baltimore ('96): 8,036,348 (W/ DC)
Population of Memphis ('97): 1,169,716
Population of Nashville ('98): 1,330,842
Population of Cleveland ('99): 2,956,323
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Population of San Antonio: 1,739,834
Population of Austin: 1,503,247
(combined total: 3,255,249)
Population of New Orleans ('67): 1,342,639
SA & Austin combined would be an attractive market. But it's not like the NFL's ratings are going to be that piss poor if there is not a team in this area.
Here's a random thought, what if the NFL tried to break into Canada? If you could turn another country onto the league the prospective payoff would seem to be a bit larger than counting on more Texans to watch football.
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