Mosque of Cady Lalanne

[GSH]

They'll likely go in with the 15 they have now.

Every season, right before the deadline, the Spurs make headlines with their roster-shaking trades.

[Chinook]

The Bonner situation, if he gets waived before the Jan deadline. Do the Spurs have to pay taxes on a full year veteran minimum salary?

No, just the $794k guaranteed.

EDIT: Actually, let me run the numbers:

If the Spurs keep Bonner, they pay $947k in salary and the same in taxes with the 1.5 multiplier ($1.421 Million) . That's $2.368 Million total.

If they release Bonner and sign Lalanne on 01/10, they pay $1.107 Million in salary (Bonner's $794k in guaranteed money and Lalanne's $313k in prorated salary) and $2.039 Million in taxes (Bonner's guarantee and Lalanne's prorated tax as he doesn't count as a rookie for tax purposes time the 1.5 multiplier). So that's a total of $3.146 Million to do the switch. We're talking about $778k more than it would be to just keep Matt around.

[Chinook]

Every season, right before the deadline, the Spurs make headlines with their roster-shaking trades.

[ceperez]

No, just the $794k guaranteed.

EDIT: Actually, let me run the numbers:

If the Spurs keep Bonner, they pay $947k in salary and the same in taxes with the 1.5 multiplier ($1.421 Million) . That's $2.368 Million total.

If they release Bonner and sign Lalanne on 01/10, they pay $1.107 Million in salary (Bonner's $794k in guaranteed money and Lalanne's $313k in prorated salary) and $2.039 Million in taxes (Bonner's guarantee and Lalanne's prorated tax as he doesn't count as a rookie for tax purposes time the 1.5 multiplier). So that's a total of $3.146 Million to do the switch. We're talking about $778k more than it would be to just keep Matt around.

Is that correct? They have to pay Bonner $1.5m for entire season. That's $500k more than waiving him. Tax calculation I guess will be the same whether Bonner is on the team or not?

So if they bring in Lalanne for $300k and he doesn't get calculated in the tax, then they save $200k.

Also, is Fredett's $500k also included in taxes?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Is that correct? They have to pay Bonner $1.5m for entire season. That's $500k more than waiving him. Tax calculation I guess will be the same whether Bonner is on the team or not?

So if they bring in Lalanne for $300k and he doesn't get calculated in the tax, then they save $200k.

Also, is Fredett's $500k also included in taxes?

Everything's included in the tax.

Also, Spurs are paying Bonner $947k ( if they keep him all season long ), not $1.5 mil - the rest is paid by the league.

[ceperez]

Everything's included in the tax.

Also, Spurs are paying Bonner $947k ( if they keep him all season long ), not $1.5 mil - the rest is paid by the league.

ok... forgot about that reimbursement. I guess that counts for both Butler and West also.

So Bonner at this point is fully paid for and there's no discount in waiving him.

EDIT: Apparently Bonner is guranteed for only $750k.... so $200k savings to waive him.

[Chinook]

ok... forgot about that reimbursement. I guess that counts for both Butler and West also.

So Bonner at this point is fully paid for and there's no discount in waiving him.

It doesn't count for West, as he signed a two-year deal.

Bonner is not fully paid, but he's guaranteed almost as much as the Spurs are paying him.

[FromWayDowntown]

Money aside, given the extent to which Pop values Matt's ability to remain prepared and to do whatever he's asked to do, the hope that Matt Bonner will just be waived seems far-fetched to me.

That's not to say that Matt has some incredible value that would make him untouchable; just that if the question is Matt Bonner or a D-League guy as this team nears the playoffs, Matt Bonner will likely win that evaluation because he has 10 years with this team, has nearly 100 games of playoff experience, and has been around (and gone through) 5 deep playoff runs. While his playoff performances are certainly not his finest moments, the organization is much more likely to prefer a guy with that pedigree over a guy who's toiling right now in the D-League will have little or no NBA experience when the time to make that decision comes.

[Chinook]

Money aside, given the extent to which Pop values Matt's ability to remain prepared and to do whatever he's asked to do, the hope that Matt Bonner will just be waived seems far-fetched to me.

That's not to say that Matt has some incredible value that would make him untouchable; just that if the question is Matt Bonner or a D-League guy as this team nears the playoffs, Matt Bonner will likely win that evaluation because he has 10 years with this team, has nearly 100 games of playoff experience, and has been around (and gone through) 5 deep playoff runs. While his playoff performances are certainly not his finest moments, the organization is much more likely to prefer a guy with that pedigree over a guy who's toiling right now in the D-League will have little or no NBA experience when the time to make that decision comes.

More than that, it's not like the Spurs need to protect Lalanne. He's part of the organization for the rest of the year unless someone trades for his rights. In fact, if the Spurs sign him, they'll be losing value by using one of his cheap seasons ( , his cheapest) on a partial year.

[SAGirl]

Lalanne hasn't really shown the defense he needs to to stick in the league, even if his stroke is legit. Five to seven years ago, it might have been enough for Cady to be a guy over 6-8 who could space the floor. But you have to do at least two things at a very high level in order to make it in the NBA. If Cady can be a knock-down shooter who can rebound and score at anything above a below-average level, the offense will probably be find. But he doesn't have the quickest feet or the biggest body, so his NBA defensive position is ambiguous.

If Cady has LJC's defensive ability, we're talking about an awesome, awesome prospect. As it is, it would be a miracle if he even has a NBA career resemxbling that of Malcolm Thomas.

Well I remember LJC to be just as Lalane in terms of size and body, very similar, but a lot more athletic and with superb defensive hustle and instincts. I can see what the Spurs liked about him, but he was completely undeveloped in everything else, making him still a project.

Cady seemed slower, but he's strong and has a nice jumpshot, which he appears to be expanding in range. He's slower, reminds me of maybe D West. What I thought he needed to work on the most was catching the ball on the move. He was too TO prone in SL, and Spurs had to go away from running PnR between him and Anderson bc he could not catch the ball. If I remember correctly the first few game in Utah Anderson was very TO prone and it was bc guys had trouble catching. Becky adjusted by having Anderson and Simms more aggressive carrying th offensive load an running simpler sets.

Lalane also had trouble rebounding. If I remember correctly Anderson was better on the boards, but we have to admit Anderson has good coordination and very good hands.

If Lalane can work on his rebounding and catching, I think he's a worthy project. I remind myself that I watched a lot of Simmons last season in the dleague and save his athleticism he seemed raw and like he had all to work on. Lalane is even younger than Simmons.

[wildbill2u]

I was happy to see he has progressed from the summer league. I doubt he'd be brought up to the parent club this year, but seeing him do some stuff that he couldn't do in SL is good. Not many second round choices make it to the big leagues so we can only hope he gets better.

For all you contract gurus, would it be possible for the Spurs to bring him up for a ten day to show him they respect his hard work and give him a look at what he has to compete with. I think it is always a nice gesture by the FO to give these D-League guys a courtesy call-up.

[FromWayDowntown]

More than that, it's not like the Spurs need to protect Lalanne. He's part of the organization for the rest of the year unless someone trades for his rights. In fact, if the Spurs sign him, they'll be losing value by using one of his cheap seasons ( , his cheapest) on a partial year.

True, though my comment was meant to expand the discussion beyond Bonner v. Lalanne. I suppose my larger point was that absent a trade or the need to waive Matt to make room for a buy-out guy who becomes available (or perhaps some dire need that can't be addressed in one of those ways), I don't imagine that Matt Bonner is likely to go anywhere if the choice is between him and almost any D-League guy.

That applies, I think, with equal force to Lalanne, who's upside might be in the range of "Matt Bonner with a less consistent stroke from deep."

[benefactor]

You really don't understand how these things work.

He doesn't understand much of anything.

[GSH]

More than that, it's not like the Spurs need to protect Lalanne. He's part of the organization for the rest of the year unless someone trades for his rights. In fact, if the Spurs sign him, they'll be losing value by using one of his cheap seasons ( , his cheapest) on a partial year.

I was wondering if you were going to get around to that. The only real question here is "Why?... why would they do that?" It's not just about the money, although that doesn't make sense either. He's right where he needs to be, for everyone's interests. He needs the minutes, and he knew on draft night he'd be spending the year in the D-League.

[Obstructed_View]

If he were far-and-away the best player in the D League, we could talk about him getting called into Bonner's spot this season. The guy's scoring 11 ppg on 10 fga with almost as many fouls as rebounds. Good for him for working the program, but he isn't going to get a shot this year.

[Chinook]

True, though my comment was meant to expand the discussion beyond Bonner v. Lalanne. I suppose my larger point was that absent a trade or the need to waive Matt to make room for a buy-out guy who becomes available (or perhaps some dire need that can't be addressed in one of those ways), I don't imagine that Matt Bonner is likely to go anywhere if the choice is between him and almost any D-League guy.

That applies, I think, with equal force to Lalanne, who's upside might be in the range of "Matt Bonner with a less consistent stroke from deep."

I could sort of see the Spurs waiving Bonner to bring in a prospect they wanted to protect. I think there are teams they'd like to have him for, but with Butler pretty much being the same guy, they might risk it. But they won't do it if they can just sign him in the off-season with no fear of another team poaching him.

[Mel_13]

More than that, it's not like the Spurs need to protect Lalanne. He's part of the organization for the rest of the year unless someone trades for his rights. In fact, if the Spurs sign him, they'll be losing value by using one of his cheap seasons ( , his cheapest) on a partial year.

Yeah, that was #4 in my point by point post above. He would be more likely to be signed this year if his rights weren't held by the Spurs.

[ceperez]

Yeah, that was #4 in my point by point post above. He would be more likely to be signed this year if his rights weren't held by the Spurs.

The deal though with second round picks ( see: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/...nd-round-picks ) is that they don't count towards the luxury.

So if Lalanne is ready and can contribute, he gets signed regardless of the tax situation.

[Mel_13]

The deal though with second round picks ( see: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/10/...nd-round-picks ) is that they don't count towards the luxury.

So if Lalanne is ready and can contribute, he gets signed regardless of the tax situation.

1. That's not what that article says.

2. As many in this thread have tried, apparently in vain, to explain to you, luxury tax implications are not close to the most significant factors making a Lalanne signing this season extremely unlikely.

[SAGirl]

I don't think we are waiving Bonner for Cady for all the reasons already expressed. He's still ours to keep until next summer and he's unlikely to play aside from some garbage time so he's not at all needed.

Next season there might be vacancies bc D.West, Bonner and Rasual are in 1 yr. contracts their futures in the team TBD. All 3 are old vets with only D.West having a real regular and indispensable role.

At some point Pop has to bring in a younger guy to start getting ready to contribute as a bench big and it might as well be next season. Maybe one of the above 3 gives way for Lalane.

[ceperez]

Here's the calculations for Lalanne for Bonner.

Bonner gets waived. He is guaranteed $750k. He doesn't get the $950k. Savings of $200k. Tax calculation is pro-rated, so if its 1/3rd of the season then 1.5 * 1.5 * 1/3, a savings of $1.5m. Total savings of $1.7m on a waived Bonner if he plays only 1/3rd of the season.

Lalanne gets signed, pro-rated minimum. Say 250,000, taxes will be 250,000 * 1.5 = $375,000. Total cost is: $625k.

Total savings, $1,000,000 for Spurs.

Okay gurus, what's wrong with the calculations?

[Mel_13]

Here's the calculations for Lalanne for Bonner.

Bonner gets waived. He is guaranteed $750k. He doesn't get the $950k. Savings of $200k. Tax calculation is pro-rated, so if its 1/3rd of the season then 1.5 * 1.5 * 1/3, a savings of $1.5m. Total savings of $1.7m on a waived Bonner if he plays only 1/3rd of the season.

Lalanne gets signed, pro-rated minimum. Say 250,000, taxes will be 250,000 * 1.5 = $375,000. Total cost is: $625k.

Total savings, $1,000,000 for Spurs.

Wrong and irrelevant to the discussion here.

[ceperez]

Wrong and irrelevant to the discussion here.

wrong in what way?

[Chinook]

Wrong and irrelevant to the discussion here.

Mel's patience = gone

[ceperez]

Spurs can't sign an undrafted player like they did Marjanovic. It will cost them veteran minimum salary.

The only option is to sign the cheaper drafted second round players.

The only way to save is to acquire them at end of season so salaries are all pro-rated.