Forget intangibles. Pure skillsdet/talent/bball ability - Tim or David?

[Kidd K]

Wait how old are you? lol. Aren't you only like 23? You didn't really see either of them play wtf are you talking about

Tbh he's actually correct, DRob and Hakeem were the best two-way bigs of this generation. Though if he's 23 obviously he didn't really see them play and/or wasn't old enough to understand how good they were.

While Duncan is up there defensively obviously, both Hakeem and DRob were bigger impacts on offense.

[dweaver99027]

Theoretical - Would the 89 - 97 Spurs have won more with Shaq instead of Dave? Had Shaq entered the league in 89, ofcourse.

[BD24]

Tbh he's actually correct, DRob and Hakeem were the best two-way bigs of this generation. Though if he's 23 obviously he didn't really see them play and/or wasn't old enough to understand how good they were.

While Duncan is up there defensively obviously, both Hakeem and DRob were bigger impacts on offense.

This, thank you.

I was not saying that he was either correct or incorrect. I was commenting on the fact he made it seem like he saw them play and had a deep understanding of basketball at the time. I never saw Hakeem or Drob play, but I know many people have said Hakeem was the most skilled big on the offensive end of the court.

[barbacoataco]

Hakeeem had more dependable low post moves and the fadeaway, but Robinson routinely scored as much or more at a very efficient pace.

[TD 21]

This, thank you.

I was not saying that he was either correct or incorrect. I was commenting on the fact he made it seem like he saw them play and had a deep understanding of basketball at the time. I never saw Hakeem or Drob play, but I know many people have said Hakeem was the most skilled big on the offensive end of the court.

With the possible exception of Bryant, no player has benefited more from revisionist history than Olajuwon. Flashiness, athleticism and an extremely high peak, are the reasons for this.

Spurs fans, in particular, have had a hard on for him since the '95 WCF. But the truth is, there's no credible argument to justify the amount of hype he receives.

As far as skill, the only thing he had on Duncan was he was a far more explosive athlete, so a lot of what he did seemed more spectacular. People seem to forget how ridiculously skilled Duncan was, when his knee still worked.

[BD24]

With the possible exception of Bryant, no player has benefited more from revisionist history than Olajuwon. Flashiness, athleticism and an extremely high peak, are the reasons for this.

Spurs fans, in particular, have had a hard on for him since the '95 WCF. But the truth is, there's no credible argument to justify the amount of hype he receives.

As far as skill, the only thing he had on Duncan was he was a far more explosive athlete, so a lot of what he did seemed more spectacular. People seem to forget how ridiculously skilled Duncan was, when his knee still worked.

My problem with Hakeem is the very short prime as well. Like, you said though his peak was superstar, on top of that he took two fairly poor teams to championships. He, Duncan, and Dirk are the only player who really won a ship without another all star/sidekick.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

In terms of pure talent...David, for reasons already well-stated. David and Hakeem were probably the two most physically gifted big men ever to play the game. David's window of maximum skillset was shorter than Tim's due to a) entering the league late and b) his back issues. But I've never seen a player do what David could do on the court.

All that being said, Tim is a winner, pure and simple, and deservedly should go down in history as the greatest Spur ever. His presence, his desire to win, his quiet leadership, his ability to transform his body and his game to still be impactful at 40 years old. All of those things are what makes Tim one of the greatest NBA players of all time. David, unfortunately for him, won't have nearly the legacy that Tim will in terms of NBA lore.

[dweaver99027]

Can the argument be made for David being a Top 3 defensive Center in NBA history? I guess Russell has the lead, but after that? Hakeem? Ben Wallace? Tim? Wilt? Who else is up there?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Totally disagree that David was more talented than Duncan. More physically gifted, sure. More basketball talent? No ing way. Guess the word talent is too ambiguous.

50 without his athleticism is a borderline NBA player. Duncan without athleticism is still a top 2 player on a championship contender.

[31kungodt]

I was having the admiral discussion with myself in 12´ when i saw the "12 dunk game" on youtube. I think that Tim has showed us all time and time again that he is the superior one overall. But Robinson is hands down the most unique player - probably in all of basketball. Add some killer instinct, some smarts and probably erase a little bit of his fondness of god (no offense at all) and you are left with what could have been the sequel of Bill Russell. Great coaching would also have helped.



His size and body stature alone - tall, quick, could jump and not prone to injuries. Great jump shooter for a big man. Only thing missing was psyche. I mean the prayers wars joke says it all sometims.



His last game probably the one which give him most due. He is dominating.

[Eggeye]

Tim Duncan no doubt.

[Slippy]

David was the better athlete and defender. Tim stands out offensively and on accomplishments.

[TDfan2007]

I'm seeing a lot of people here repeating the same things.

1) "David was more talented than Timmy"

What does talent entail? If what you're trying to say is that David was far more athletically gifted, then I agree. However, isn't skill encompassed by talent? Timmy was more skilled and coordinated than David, so doesn't that count?

2) "Timmy got destroyed by Amare, so he's not as good of a defender as David"

Yes, Amare went bananas in that series, but there are several reasons. First, Amare was a tremendous offensive player who set a Suns franchise record for most consective 20+ point games in the 07 playoffs (moving past Sir Charles in the process). Second, Timmy was hobbled in that 05 series and playing on 2 bad ankles. Not easy to guard an explosively athletic faceup player when you have 2 bum ankles. Finally, Amare scored a ton of points that series in pick and rolls, which has nothing to do with individual defense.


Now as for the actual comparison...

Offense:

David sometimes doesn't get his proper due as a scorer for whatever reason, but in his prime he was a scoring machine. David was a more prolific scorer than Timmy in the regular season, partly due to pace, but mostly due to the fact that he was just an athletic freak with a great faceup game and reliable mid-range J. The playoffs however, were a different story. David's efficiency would routinely drop from regular season to playoffs, as the slower tempo and more focused defenses took advantage of his lack of a broad and reliable post game. This is where Timmy's advantage comes to play. Timmy was one of the best one-on-one bigs to ever play. He could score from the high post or low post with a variety of moves and counter moves that only Kevin McHale and the Dream could compete with.

David was the better outside shooter and finisher at the basket, but Timmy had the edge in footwork, low-post game, and passing. Bottom line: if you have 10 seconds to get a bucket in a half court set, you're giving the ball to #21 over almost any big in history.


Defense:

David gets the edge here because of his greater shot-blocking ability (can't teach being a natural lefty, and that second jump...holy ) and ability to play passing lanes. He just covered so much ground on defense. However, it's a lot closer than people think. It's easy to forget, but in his prime Timmy was one of the best pick and roll defenders and rim protectors ever. He never had David's athletic ability, but his timing was every bit as good. Just watch how he blocks shots today against guys much stronger and more athletic than him time and time again while barely leaving the ground. It's all timing. Essentially, this comparison boils down to the fact that David was like Timmy on steroids on the defensive end, so he has to have the edge.


Overall:
David was KG before KG (just a better version in every way other than passing). Both players were transcendentally athletic and versatile freaks who revolutionized their respective positions, but they had the same weakness. Their styles were not conducive to dominating playoff basketball as a #1 option.

I personally think that Tim's advantage over David offensively is greater than David's advantage defensively, so I'm going with Timmy, but that's just an opinion.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

In some ways this debate is a little like arguing over "Awesome" and "Amazing"....which is better???




Discuss...

[TDfan2007]

In some ways this debate is a little like arguing over "Awesome" and "Amazing"....which is better???




Discuss...

Agreed

[SilverSpur]

David Robinson over Tim Duncan easily.

[keeferob25]

Hakeem was overall more skilled than Duncan. David was overall more physically gifted than Duncan (tho I would argue that Duncan is no less skilled than David)...however Duncan truly does blow both away in terms of leadership, intangibles, and the cut throat compe iveness simpleton media figures seem to only bestow on beloved wing players like Jordan, Kobe, Bird etc. That is what has primarily separated Duncan from a more skilled player like Hakeem, or a more freakish athlete like Dave or the physical imposition of a Shaq. Duncan's greatest gift truly was/is between the ears.

[bic50]

Totally disagree that David was more talented than Duncan. More physically gifted, sure. More basketball talent? No ing way. Guess the word talent is too ambiguous.

50 without his athleticism is a borderline NBA player. Duncan without athleticism is still a top 2 player on a championship contender.

Unless you're confusing David Robinson with Dwight Howard, this is one of the most ridiculous things Ive read in a while.

[100%duncan]

Tim.

/thread

[Keepin' it real]

We get a couple of reminders of Big Dave's greatness tomorrow on NBA TV:

1993 Portland at San Antonio game 4
Robinson triple double: 20 pts, 17 rebounds, 11 assists and 7 blocks for good measure!

1996 Phoenix at San Antonio game 2
Robinson: 40 pts, 21 rebounds, 3 blocks

[dweaver99027]

I remember that 96 game.. man, time flies...

[SPURt]

I'm seeing a lot of people here repeating the same things.

1) "David was more talented than Timmy"

What does talent entail? If what you're trying to say is that David was far more athletically gifted, then I agree. However, isn't skill encompassed by talent? Timmy was more skilled and coordinated than David, so doesn't that count?

2) "Timmy got destroyed by Amare, so he's not as good of a defender as David"

Yes, Amare went bananas in that series, but there are several reasons. First, Amare was a tremendous offensive player who set a Suns franchise record for most consective 20+ point games in the 07 playoffs (moving past Sir Charles in the process). Second, Timmy was hobbled in that 05 series and playing on 2 bad ankles. Not easy to guard an explosively athletic faceup player when you have 2 bum ankles. Finally, Amare scored a ton of points that series in pick and rolls, which has nothing to do with individual defense.


Now as for the actual comparison...

Offense:

David sometimes doesn't get his proper due as a scorer for whatever reason, but in his prime he was a scoring machine. David was a more prolific scorer than Timmy in the regular season, partly due to pace, but mostly due to the fact that he was just an athletic freak with a great faceup game and reliable mid-range J. The playoffs however, were a different story. David's efficiency would routinely drop from regular season to playoffs, as the slower tempo and more focused defenses took advantage of his lack of a broad and reliable post game. This is where Timmy's advantage comes to play. Timmy was one of the best one-on-one bigs to ever play. He could score from the high post or low post with a variety of moves and counter moves that only Kevin McHale and the Dream could compete with.

David was the better outside shooter and finisher at the basket, but Timmy had the edge in footwork, low-post game, and passing. Bottom line: if you have 10 seconds to get a bucket in a half court set, you're giving the ball to #21 over almost any big in history.


Defense:

David gets the edge here because of his greater shot-blocking ability (can't teach being a natural lefty, and that second jump...holy ) and ability to play passing lanes. He just covered so much ground on defense. However, it's a lot closer than people think. It's easy to forget, but in his prime Timmy was one of the best pick and roll defenders and rim protectors ever. He never had David's athletic ability, but his timing was every bit as good. Just watch how he blocks shots today against guys much stronger and more athletic than him time and time again while barely leaving the ground. It's all timing. Essentially, this comparison boils down to the fact that David was like Timmy on steroids on the defensive end, so he has to have the edge.


Overall:
David was KG before KG (just a better version in every way other than passing). Both players were transcendentally athletic and versatile freaks who revolutionized their respective positions, but they had the same weakness. Their styles were not conducive to dominating playoff basketball as a #1 option.

I personally think that Tim's advantage over David offensively is greater than David's advantage defensively, so I'm going with Timmy, but that's just an opinion.

Great post! +∞

It's nice to be a Spurs fan...

[dweaver99027]

75% Timmy. Well, I guess that settles it.

[Sean Cagney]

We get a couple of reminders of Big Dave's greatness tomorrow on NBA TV:

1993 Portland at San Antonio game 4
Robinson triple double: 20 pts, 17 rebounds, 11 assists and 7 blocks for good measure!

1996 Phoenix at San Antonio game 2
Robinson: 40 pts, 21 rebounds, 3 blocks

That guy was a freak of damn nature in his prime. He could run the floor like a gazelle and jump out of the building. This is a C doing that.

[bic50]

75% Timmy. Well, I guess that settles it.

Not really.