Bashar al-Assad’s crimes against humanity, caught on camera

[hater]

Obama getting it is as bad IMO

[FuzzyLumpkins]

RG: isn't it possible Assad is preferable to to the present alternatives?

As opposed to the Kurds or FSA? I don't think so. Syria is different then Iraq when we invaded. When we put the Baathists in power in 1919 they held it in a tight grip for most of a century in Iraq.

Coptic in Syria are a much smaller relative minority as opposed to the Sunni baathists. Additionally. the FSA and Kurds are both secular political en ies in a new Syria whereas Iraq had no similar dynamic.

Sure the fundamentalist sunni and shia groups are there as well but they are mostly foreigners as opposed to the town vs town warfare that happened in Iraq's power vaccuum.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You answered yourself, US cares about leverage vs opponents, not crimes against humanity.

pragmatism almost always wins over sentiment and want in armed conflict.

[CosmicCowboy]

pragmatism almost always wins over sentiment and want in armed conflict.

Doesn't even have to be armed conflict. Saudi Arabia consistently has more public beheadings than ISIS and you never hear a peep out of the US over those....

[FuzzyLumpkins]

horrible as Assad is, we knew as early as 2013 that any viable moderate opposition had vanished and that we were arming extremists in Syria.

Sy Hersh with the scuttlebutt:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour...ry-to-military

based on hearsay about a supposed 'highly classified' do ent relayed via an already ancillary participant with an apparent axe to grind talking about the state of things 2.5 years ago?

I know for a fact that while the FSA had that training facility in Turkey, they still were entrenched in positions South of Damascus and throughout the western portion of the country.

I prefer this more recent verifiable account mentioning the current disposition of all forces on the ground.

Kabalan pointed out that the meeting received support from the United States, Russia, Turkey, and most other major players in the conflict—except Iran, which fears the anti-Iranian sentiment of the opposition. The Riyadh meeting hosted both opposition and armed groups, making this the first time armed groups, such as Jaysh al-Islam (JI) and Ahrar al-Sham (AS), participate in negotiations. Kabalan hoped that the opposition will agree on a broadly defined political solution and find a way to unify their message.

Barakat opened the discussion by reminding the audience that the civil war in Syria will soon enter its fifth year, with up to 250,000 people dead and half the Syrian population displaced. Recent multilateral meetings in Vienna have demonstrated renewed diplomatic determination to negotiate peace for Syria, but significant differences remain between the conflict's principal power-brokers. Barakat began by asking the panelists how the meeting in Riyadh with Syrian opposition groups differs from previous efforts.

Kabalan pointed out that the meeting received support from the United States, Russia, Turkey, and most other major players in the conflict—except Iran, which fears the anti-Iranian sentiment of the opposition. The Riyadh meeting hosted both opposition and armed groups, making this the first time armed groups, such as Jaysh al-Islam (JI) and Ahrar al-Sham (AS), participate in negotiations. Kabalan hoped that the opposition will agree on a broadly defined political solution and find a way to unify their message.

Lister added that the meeting in Riyadh marks a shift in Western policy towards many Syrian armed groups. The West now recognizes that, despite their ideology, these groups are too popular and powerful to be excluded from negotiations. He noted that the Vienna talks will be qualitatively more serious than prior negotiations and will coincide with a nationwide ceasefire. It is logistically impossible to impose such a ceasefire without including main armed groups such as JI and AS. Lister, therefore, urged for the inclusion of more armed groups among opposition representatives.

Bonsey highlighted what he sees as the difference between armed Islamic revolutionary factions such as JI and AS and armed Salafi-jihadi groups such as the Islamic State group (IS) and Nusra Front (NF). Unlike Salafi-jihadis, he believes that JI and AS acknowledge the right of Syrians to choose their own government, would uphold an inclusive approach to non-Muslim minorities, and would not pursue a transnational agenda.

Bonsey offered a quick summary of the Kurdish scene, explaining that Kurdish forces have consolidated large portions of northern Syria. Their main players are the Abdullah Öcalan-linked Partiya Yekîtiya Demokrat (PYD) on one hand, and a disparate group of Kurdish parties—which coalesced with Masoud Barzani’s party in Iraq to form the Kurdistan National Council (KNC)—on the other. There’s a rift between these two players. He added that this is an interesting time for the Kurdish movement. They consider themselves neutral, opposing Assad and the Islamists; allying with Iran and Russia and the United States; and having difficult relations with Arabs and Turks. The United States now holds leverage over the PYD’s armed fighters, which it should use, Bonsey argued.

http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/marka...yria-alhashemi

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Here an embedded reporter estimates that while the desertions due to mostly lack of pay the FSA is still about 35k strong.

This is their description of FSA in 2013 when Hersh describes them as a rump group in Turkey and onwards:

The Daraa province began its armed struggle when small, local groups came together to defend themselves and protect peaceful demonstrators. The first direct conflict with the regime’s army was over its attempt to enter Daraa on 25 April 2011. Despite being poorly equipped and ill-prepared, these small groups were able to delay the conquest of Daraa for a whole week. These small, local groups evolved to dominate the revolutionary scene by the beginning of its second year, under the name of the Free Syrian Army (FSA). The FSA began with attacks on small and isolated military checkpoints, such as police stations and outposts in the western countryside. It soon developed in early 2013 to attack larger military areas, such as barracks in the western region and battalions in the eastern region, and some barriers that cut off roads to Daraa al-Balad. The FSA’s greatest achievement was liberating the 38th Brigade in Saida and seizing its large munitions store on 27 March 2013.

Successive victories included vital areas like the Old Customs area and massive areas of Daraa City. In 2014, the FSA liberated strategic hills in the western countryside, including al-Jabiya, Tal al-Jumou and Tal al-Hara, followed by the 82nd Brigade, which paved the way for liberating the key western cities of al-Shaykh Saad, al-Shaykh Miskeen, Nawa, and opening the road towards Inkhil and Jasim. The FSA then extended its territory towards al-Quneitra, seizing important areas necessary to connect with western Damascus. It gained full control of the Syrian border with Israel along the Golan Heights. In 2015, it seized the Shia-dominated Busra al-Sham, which had been the centre of Lebanese Hezbollah’s operations. In a sudden and surprising operation and the largest military and economic blow to date, the regime lost the Nasib border crossing and the free trade zone between Jordan and Syria. This was followed by an attack that resulted in the sudden collapse the 52nd Brigade, which had been considered one of the most important defence lines for regime forces in Daraa and one of the largest brigades across Syria.

The FSA now controls more than sixty-five per cent of the province.(1) Under major public pressure, the opposition launched “Operation Southern Storm” to liberate the city of Daraa; however, they were unable to meet this goal. Thereafter, the opposition shifted its priority to the western rural areas of the Daraa province in order to lift the siege on western Ghouta. The regime has maintained a siege on western Ghouta for years, so at the end of September 2015, the southern armed opposition launched a new battle, “Give Glad Tidings to the Patient”, which has resulted in successive victories, including the liberation of Tanja Squadron and several strategic hillsides, such as Tal Ahmar and Tal “UN”. This shift in tactic is intended to stifle regime forces in Quneitira and open the door for the opposition to reach Khan al-Shaykh in rural Damascus.

Announced in February 2014, this faction is considered the strongest and most significant influence in terms of numbers (in excess of 30,000 fighters), the quality of its armament, capabilities and geographic spread.(2) It consists of a loose assembly of forty-nine factions without a central command or solid organisational structure, mostly concentrated in Daraa and al-Quneitra, and partly extending to the Damascus countryside and al-Qalamoun. These factions all receive support from the Military Operations Center (MOC) of the supporting countries independently,(3) at varying degrees and according to shifting criteria.(4)

The Southern Front has been unable to organise itself under a unified military command with a strong ins utional framework. Rather, it has remained in the form of fragile and loose alliances falling under a singular umbrella. Even the announcement of a joint command on 15 May 2015 did not materialise into tangible changes on the ground in terms of organisation or effectiveness. In addition, significant factions publicly raised complaints and disputes due to their exclusion, expressing resentment about how the election took place and the mechanisms of candidate selection.(5)

These factions depend on on geographic compatibility, pressure on the field, ideological convergence or purely pragmatic considerations in order to form their alliances. They have been affected by delays, failure to mobilise, changes in the field or political and personal disputes. The foremost of these alliances are:

A. Tahaluf Suqour al-Janoub (Hawks of the South)

Announced on 27 December 2014, this coalition is concentrated geographically in Daraa City and areas east of the city. It comprises four factions which formed a joint operations room to coordinate their military operations. Factions include Jaish al-Yarmouk (Yarmouk Army), which is considered one of the most effective players in terms of numbers and equipment. Its leader, Bashar al-Zoubi, is a charismatic figure with good public relations, and he adopts moderately religious speech. The alliance also includes Fallujat Horan Brigade and Osoud al-Sunna. In addition, it includes the 18 March Division, which is made up of six factions united geographically and on the frontlines of Daraa City under the command of dissident Colonel Khalid al-Dahni. This alliance is characterised by its massive breakthroughs and experience in urban warfare.


B. Al-Jaish al-Awwal (The First Army)

This assembly of about 10,000 fighters was established on 1 January 2015 under the command of dissident Colonel Saber Safar. It includes the Saudi-backed Syrian Revolutionaries’ Front and the Hamza Division. In addition, it includes the 1st Artillery Regiment, which cons utes the offensive arm in battles and is the single faction with rocket launchers, thus creating a qualitative leap in battlefields, particularly in Daraa’s western countryside. The First Army seeks (by defining itself as an army, led by an experienced military colonel and based on the large number of fighters affiliated with the army and its fighters in the Artillery Regiment) to present itself as a nucleus for a reliable and dependable army, which subsequently can be relied on to fill the security vacuum after the regime’s fall.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/1...064831800.html

[Wild Cobra]

Doesn't even have to be armed conflict. Saudi Arabia consistently has more public beheadings than ISIS and you never hear a peep out of the US over those....

Maybe because it's their justice system rather than just killing?

[Winehole23]

based on hearsay

are you familiar with scuttlebutt and Sy Hersh?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

are you familiar with scuttlebutt and Sy Hersh?

In short, yes. Do you have a point?

[Winehole23]

I led with scuttlebutt. Your aggrieved cry of "hearsay!" was somewhat repe ive and does suggest you're unfamiliar with how Sy Hersh writes.