Woj:San Antonio's Tim Duncan exercises player option

[HankChinaski]

Spurs are not going to gut roster before getting a commitment from Durant. If the spurs can sign Durant, moving pieces to create space is something they probably have a plan for.

[Chinook]

Chinook does this mean RC is going to have to move either Danny or TP to make room for a max player? IIRC Mills and Diaw would've been enough before, right?

Yes. Team can get $14,891,164 if they renounce their holds and stretch Diaw. But if both players are on the roster and unstretched, the Spurs are functionally over the cap.

[Chinook]

Then why would Manu opt out? What if Tim does not retire, does the decision then not make any sense to you?

I can try looking for my original post on the matter, but I had suggested that the option would essentially mean the opposite of what people thought it would. Opting in was committing to the retirement package. Opting out was because you weren't going retire and wanted to re-sign using Bird rights.

[DPG21920]

How does him retiring make sense with the Durant meeting?
I think Timmy is coming back.

I think retired players are a part of these meetings all the time. It might be something where Tim, the franchise player, is there to tell him what it was like and how him leaving means it's KD/LMA/Kawhi team now.

I don't think the meeting has anything to do with his decision IMO.

I think he retires - otherwise doesn't make a ton of sense. Tim has shown that if he's playing, he wants to win. If SA fell short last year he knows they need money to add to the team. Him opting in means they have less chance to build a team if he does not retire.

If he opted out (assuming he was coming back), he could have gotten paid more than his opt-in if SA whiffed on FA and if they had to renounce Tim's cap hold to get the cap space and he had to play for the min, I don't think it would have mattered to him.

We will see - a lot of this is confusing to me.

[TheGoldStandard]

It could be that the Spurs plan to pay Manu something like 5 or 6 million for one final season.

[Chinook]

I don't remember seeing your post on it being likely. I didn't think it was likely at all unless the logic was no way Tim was willing to chance playing for the minimum. That is the only scenario I can think of that made sense to exercise the option is if Tim was not willing to play for the min under any cir stance.

However, now learning that he can be stretched (did not know that, although I should have - retiring doesn't change that rule) it makes more sense as it's a small hit to the cap moving forward.

I'd rather them not stretch him. That money is more useful next off-season and in 2018 than it is this year. The Spurs are over the cap as of now and have zero flexibility outside of a trade. Duncan being stretched doesn't really prevent that.

[baseline bum]

Oh man I hope this means Tim is back. I can't imagine this team without him.

[DPG21920]

I can try looking for my original post on the matter, but I had suggested that the option would essentially mean the opposite of what people thought it would. Opting in was committing to the retirement package. Opting out was because you weren't going retire and wanted to re-sign using Bird rights.

It's all good - was not an accusation just saying I didn't remember seeing your logic on it. But now knowing that he can be stretched and it really won't hurt the team cap wise makes perfect sense.

It won't make sense if he plays however.

[NASpurs]

I can try looking for my original post on the matter, but I had suggested that the option would essentially mean the opposite of what people thought it would. Opting in was committing to the retirement package. Opting out was because you weren't going retire and wanted to re-sign using Bird rights.

the man, the legend

[SAGirl]

Thanks for sharing.

[DPG21920]

I'd rather them not stretch him. That money is more useful next off-season and in 2018 than it is this year. The Spurs are over the cap as of now and have zero flexibility outside of a trade. Duncan being stretched doesn't really prevent that.

Well if SA needs/wants cap space this year, then stretching Tim vs him opting out doesn't really change that plan much at all, no?

[Splits]

It could be that the Spurs plan to pay Manu something like 5 or 6 million for one final season.

You forgot the "1." before your numbers.

[SAGirl]

What I want to know now is why didn't Manu do the same thing, given most indications that he would follow suit with whatever TD would do?

He actually said in his last article in "La Nacion" that this was an individual decision, that he wanted to know what the team was doing and that he was going to talk to his teammates as usual, but that his decision wasn't tied to anyone else's.

[Chinook]

Well if SA needs/wants cap space this year, then stretching Tim vs him opting out doesn't really change that plan much at all, no?

Yes. They'd be much better off trading Diaw and/or Mills to make their improvements. It also likely closes the door on West returning unless he just really loves minimum deals.

[DPG21920]

Makes more sense now. I'm on the Tim is retiring side now with all things considered.

Him coming back makes it too perplexing of an action with how he limits the team's ability to improve with his choice (which is against what he's been doing) and the fact that he's not really securing himself any more money either.

[BillMc]

I think this means he's retiring. That payment was really part of last year's salary. He took the reduction to get LMA. Now, he's taking the money and going. The Durant meeting might be as an elder statesman and because KD respects Duncan. Possibly, Duncan will agree to come back if KD comes, but both that scenario (and KD coming) are very unlikely.

He may allow them to trade his contract before he retires, which might be TD's last helpful move for the team. (Remember he still has a no-trade clause, I think). As others have said TD plus Diaw brings back 12 million contract. Can Philly sigh and trade Noel to us for that?

[objective]

Sooo... LLE / BAE for Bertans, and MLE has to be kept to match on Boban, right?

[DPG21920]

I can try looking for my original post on the matter, but I had suggested that the option would essentially mean the opposite of what people thought it would. Opting in was committing to the retirement package. Opting out was because you weren't going retire and wanted to re-sign using Bird rights.

Circling back to your last sentence. If Tim opted out & Spurs renounced him to get his cap hold off the books, he no longer can be signed with Bird Rights, correct? I thought that if you trade a player and/or you renounce them, you lose their rights?

If that's the case, then if he opted out & SA renounced him to remove the cap hold, then SA could only sign him with cap space and/or min deal/exceptions which might not have been OK with Tim playing for min (or am I off).

[BatManu20]

Get your money, Tim. You owe this franchise nothing.

Spurs aren't getting Durant and he's the only FA that Tim should take the minimum for...

[Mr. Body]

I think this means he's retiring. That payment was really part of last year's salary. He took the reduction to get LMA. Now, he's taking the money and going. The Durant meeting might be as an elder statesman and because KD respects Duncan. Possibly, Duncan will agree to come back if KD comes, but both that scenario (and KD coming) are very unlikely.

He may allow them to trade his contract before he retires, which might be TD's last helpful move for the team. (Remember he still has a no-trade clause, I think). As others have said TD plus Diaw brings back 12 million contract. Can Philly sigh and trade Noel to us for that?

Well, Noel's contract is still rookie cheap. And I don't see Philly as needing cap space.

[Sean Cagney]

Casuals do. 20 years from now millennials will look back at his stats and see 17/16ppg.

If he comes back, I hope he just rests up for the playoffs. Won't happen though.

Eh, it will dip to 18.5 ppg and about 10 some odd boards a game, still not shabby for a career. I agree casuals look at stats though and think it defines the player, which is sad. I like the 20 and 11 more myself but he can do what he wants pretty much. He has proved it all already.

[Chinook]

Makes more sense now. I'm on the Tim is retiring side now with all things considered.

Him coming back makes it too perplexing of an action with how he limits the team's ability to improve with his choice (which is against what he's been doing) and the fact that he's not really securing himself any more money either.

Well, this is what I mentioned back in January:

Couple of things. First, the 1+1 deals imply that the two guys are at least considering retiring and pocketing the money. The only benefit of having a player option is so a player can extend his contract against his team's wishes. This is usually in the case of injury. If the Greybreads weren't planning on getting paid not to play, they'd've just signed straight one-year deals. Now you may be wondering why they didn't just sign a two-year deal if they planned on taking the 2016-2017 money even if they retire. But that's actually further proof of their plan. They want the option over a straight two-year deal SPECIFICALLY so they could opt out for a bigger deal if they want to continue their careers. And that's perfectly fine for the Spurs, as they will have Bird rights for both guys and will most likely not have any cap space anyway. If the Spurs NEED the space, maybe they could work with Tim and Manu to get some of that money back, but they don't seem likely to get out of those contracts for free in any event -- and I think they don't intend to.

Second is that even if Tim and Manu intend on retiring without taking any salary, they may opt in and agree to forego their guarantee just to give the Spurs a chance to use the cap space or trade exceptions on a piece for the next era. In fact, it makes them even more attractive if they go that route. They become dust chips. This isn't the best market to trade dust-chip guys in (too much cap space), but maybe the Spurs can make something work. Like Duncan, Manu, Diaw, money to cover Diaw's buyout and a couple of first-rounders for Horford. It would take some luck to get that to make a max contract to offer him, but no question in my mind that Atlanta would take that offer if Al decides to leave them.

Actually, that was the premise of the entire thread: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256702

[coachmac87]

Duncan could be the ultimate pitch. Duncan is going to the meeting to tell Durant personally before he leaks it to the press's he's retiring. And the great Tim Duncan is choosing you to take over his franchise. The "carry the torch" would keep the media off his back if he went to the super team (Spurs). I wonder how it'd strike Durant in the meeting if it actually happened.

[Chinook]

Circling back to your last sentence. If Tim opted out & Spurs renounced him to get his cap hold off the books, he no longer can be signed with Bird Rights, correct? I thought that if you trade a player and/or you renounce them, you lose their rights?

If that's the case, then if he opted out & SA renounced him to remove the cap hold, then SA could only sign him with cap space and/or min deal/exceptions which might not have been OK with Tim playing for min (or am I off).

Yes. Though they could not renounce him and just sign him to a new deal like they did last year.

[Keepin' it real]

Thank you for the Timmy D.!!!!!