They did it and then they let the target of the trade walk. $6.7 mil for what?
Right. Just like Brown or Evans would've done the same this season. You have old guys (at the swing spots) on short term contracts. I don't think it's a good time for ownership to limit Buford and Presti's prospecting efforts. This is the crux of the matter.I never saw a story saying Pop was interested in signing him. If there's a link, I'd appreciate it. For the record, I thought he'd be a good signing though he'd have completely duplicated Malik.
wtf is all this talk about having Haslem. Spurs had no shot at Haslem. He's from Miami. He played for the Heat SL team and was scheduled to play for the Spurs SL team. When the Heat told him they had an interest in him he wouldn't even show up to play for the Spurs SL team. Give up the Haslem fantasy.
If you can tell me that was their plan all along, you might have a point. And Ron did play half a season's worth of games.They did it and then they let the target of the trade walk.But not for the minimum -- for $3 or $5 million. And you'd be on the hook for Evans to the tune of $6 million at the very least whether he worked out or not.Right. Just like Brown or Evans would've done the same this seasonCommon sense is the crux of this matter. When you show me similar signings, you can show me how much sense they make.You have old guys (at the swing spots) on short term contracts. I don't think it's a good time for ownership to limit Buford and Presti's prospecting efforts. This is the crux of the matter.
Last edited by ChumpDumper; 11-02-2005 at 11:57 PM. Reason: math error
Maurice Evans? Are you kidding me?
Why? Because he is IR Fodder. Big ing deal.
Have a take, don't suck or you will get run.
MarcusBryant,
I understand your point to a certain extent. Let's see if I can come from a different angle. The Spurs' four main reserves (NVE, Finley, Barry, Horry) all well into their mid 30s, not to mention starter Bruce Bowen. I think that you would have liked to see the Spurs have a young, athletic guy like Evans who could end up getting regular rotation minutes in the next couple of years if the vets start wearing down or even get injured (which is probably more likely at their ages).
I wouldn't go around gassing Mo Evans up. He's a role player. He's an undersized small forward. He may never be more than a role player.
But, I think MarcusBryant wants to make sure that the Spurs have readily available players to replenish your team when Finley isn't what the Spurs bargained for next year or when Bruce Bowen loses a step on defense sooner than later.
The Spurs have the luxury of adding small pieces right now because their team is so great at the moment. But, when almost half your payroll this year is locked up in just three players and that percentage will only get bigger as their contracts move on to the higher salaries, and the Spurs are already over the luxury tax threshhold for this year and the following two years at least, it will make it harder and harder to add pieces even with the MLE because the luxury tax has already been triggered. The Spurs haven't even figured out how they're going to handle Nazr.
Therefore, getting cheap, young free agents becomes imperative. Great starting caliber veterans are not always going to sign for the veteran's minimum or LLE like NVE and Finley did this summer. When Van Exel's knee gives out, that solid back-up point guard position becomes a problem.
It's really not a problem this season. And, likely not a problem next season. I think MarcusBryant is looking "big picture" with respect to squeezing out as many championships as the Spurs can with the Tim Duncan-Ginobili pair. As the surrounding role players get older and less effective, more of the burden goes back to Tim and Manu ... and they'll be getting older as well. I think in two years, the Spurs may really have some problems financially trying to field quality role players around Tim and Manu. Maybe they can get another cheap veteran starter for the MLE or less. But, it's hard to bank on that.
I'm not saying this will definitely happen. And, I think RC and Pop have done a masterful job to put your franchise in the position it is now. But, there are foreseeable problems as some of the Spurs get older and start to decline. Getting cheap subs utes won't be so easy.
Detroit will also struggle with a financial cap space decision on whether to re-sign Ben Wallace after this year, and if they do how much they'll be willing to spend. If Ben gets anywhere near $15 million a year, it may really hurt the Pistons cap flexibility over the next three or four years. That's part of the reason Joe Dumars stacked this year's bench with so much youth. Evans, Arroyo, Delfino, and Darko are all in their mid 20s or younger, along with three rookies. Joe hopes that several of them become reliable bench players and in 3-4 years be able to take larger minutes and keep our organization at a high compe ive level in the league.
It's a unique approach. No one can really argue what the Spurs have done over the last seven years. I just think MarcusBryant is pointing out the potential problems on the horizon.
The main reason is the length of the contract-- not the amount.
Here's my point. This entire conversation is like two PhDs talking to a blind man about agronomy, when all he cares about is washing off the cow .
The second round of any draft produces a handful of Maurice Evans (Evanses?), every year. These fellas don't get a guaranteed contract. I'm no J.P Morgan, but I can count to zero vs. 4.5 mil, Jenny.
The abstract moral point of how to build the team for the long term never enters the picture. Evans isn't even the solution for how I'm going to clean my gutters next spring, much less holding down any sort of role on an elite NBA team.
So quick to judge the potential of an undrafted or even second round swingman that takes a couple years to earn and prove he belongs in the NBA?
You mean like Michael Redd? How about that second round dime-a-dozen guy named Manu Ginobili? Marquis Daniels went undrafted, right? To a lesser extent Raja Bell and Trenton Hassell.
Marcus Bryant's point is that he believe Mo Evans is going to be a player in this league and he thought the Spurs had an opportunity to get him. Just because there are a bunch of athletic 6-5 swingmen in the second round or that go undrafted doesn't mean any of them will prove to pan out. Mo Evans proved he belonged in the league last year with Sacramento. And, where are first round picks Joe Forte, Kedrick Brown, Courtney Alexander, Quincy Lewis, Michael erson, Olivier St-Jean, Felipe Lopez? It doesn't matter that there are a lot of 6-5 to 6-7 athletic swing players out there. If you find a player that has proven he belongs in the league, and you have an opportunity to acquire him for cheap, why not?
but but but, we have to make the owners broke and make them sell to someone out of town and let them move, cause damn't the owners arent allowed to think of finances!!!!!The second round of any draft produces a handful of Maurice Evans (Evanses?), every year
When Sequ makes sense, you KNOW, this subject is amazingly null.Maurice Evans? Are you kidding me?
Why? Because he is IR Fodder. Big ing deal
Thats why you carry a third point guard like the Spurs do...When Van Exel's knee gives out, that solid back-up point guard position becomes a problem.
Yawn...And, I think RC and Pop have done a masterful job to put your franchise in the position it is now. But, there are foreseeable problems as some of the Spurs get older and start to decline
$1.5 million per year for 3 years. Even with the luxury tax, it's nothing.
Sean Marks and Romain Sato probably make about that combine this year.
You have no concerns that all of your main reserves and one of your starters are in their mid 30s? Not even a little bit?
Pretty tough for them to make it combined when one of them isn't even in the league.Sean Marks and Romain Sato probably make about that combine this year
Easy for you to say.$1.5 million per year for 3 years. Even with the luxury tax, it's nothing.
Not with the Spurs scouting department, and the current overseas talent the Spurs hold rights to no, not at all.You have no concerns that all of your main reserves and one of your starters are in their mid 30s? Not even a little bit?
You drafted Javtokas four years ago now.
And, now International teams are adding more expensive buyout clauses to contracts so it makes it tougher for NBA drafted players to buy out their contracts if they turn out to be good players. Isn't that why Scola isn't with the Spurs yet?
Javtokas was 21 when the Spurs drafted him. He's 25 already.
A team cannot solely rely on stashed away second round talent overseas. How many Manu Ginobilis and Memo Okurs are there going to be? What happened to Josip Sesar, Peter Fehse, Federico Kammerichs, Alain Digbeau, Marko Milic?
They won't all turn out like Manu and Memo. In fact, most of them won't. If that's what you're going to rely on to help re-stock your team, it could be rough.
By the way, both Javtokas and Scola are big men. But, you already knew that. In a few short years, the Spurs will be very thin on the perimeter wing (Bowen, Barry, Finley). That's why Pop so desperately wanted to keep Devin Brown.
Spurs are still paying Sato's contract for this year. Point being if the Spurs can throw away $600,000+ on a player they don't even have on the roster, why is $1.5 million too much to spend on a player they could actually use?
Link?That's why Pop so desperately wanted to keep Devin Brown.
Hmmm, same age Ginobili was when he came in........Javtokas was 21 when the Spurs drafted him. He's 25 already.
Hes practically a grandfather, why bother right?!?
I read it in one of the posts in this thread by a Spurs fan.
Except Javtokas still isn't with the Spurs. That's my point. Who knows when he will be. Who knows if he'll even come to the Spurs ever. More and more international players are choosing NOT TO come to the NBA even when they are drafted or pursued.
And, the Spurs might not even have the rights to Javtokas anymore. They do expire at some point. And, like I said, he was drafted 4 years ago.
You can't completely rely on international second round draft picks. You have to develop talent within your roster as well.
What happens when San Antonio gets older and the veteran starters like the Finleys and Van Exels and Brent Barry's who are chasing rings at the end of their careers start to view Houston and Cleveland as better options to go for cheap? Bruce and Van Exel and Horry are retired, Nazr wasn't extended because he cost too much, Fabrico is just a poor man's Ervin Johnson, and those international second round picks are starting to become players overseas and have 10 million dollar buyouts they can't afford in order to come over to the NBA?
I'm not saying that WILL definitely happen. But, it could.
Wouldas, couldas, shouldas.I'm not saying that WILL definitely happen. But, it could.
Typical loser mentality.
Oh thats reliable.I read it in one of the posts in this thread by a Spurs fan
The Spurs do, and he was coming over this summer but decided not to, due to the labor uncertainty.And, the Spurs might not even have the rights to Javtokas anymore
You've got to be kidding me.$1.5 million per year for 3 years. Even with the luxury tax, it's nothing.
ing about nonguaranteed minimum contracts is one thing -- a three-year, potentially $9 million investment is quite another.
I'll ask you what I asked MB: what free agent has been signed to a guaranteed 3-year, $4.5 million deal with the express understanding that he might never see the court for the duration of his contract?
Had the subject of this ridiculous thread been Matt Barnes, I wouldn't be so incredulous.
Why didn't they do what it took to sign Matt Barnes then? He was another the front office had an interest in and he took the minimum for one year to play for the Knicks. Oh, but signing a guy to a 1 year contract for the minimum would've ruined this club's financial performance and position. Yeah.
I had no deep interest in seeing Maurice Evans as a Spur. But I do have an interest in seeing this team seize on the opportunities it has to make itself better and that includes using IR to its advantage. That also includes using the cap exceptions to add cheap, non-minimum players. The Spurs' player-personnel staff have done a great job at identifying young talent and the coaching staff has done a great job at turning some of that into useful role players. Are we really to believe that the Spurs haven't seen anyone out there they've liked? That's doubtful.
JamStone is dead on about the reason a contending team would want to try to develop some younger players on IR while competing for championships. I will only add that it's perplexing how Spurs fans act like this is some novel concept, something that has not been done before in SA. It's been done every season I can recall since about 1988 at least. With the ability of teams now to assign young players to the NDBL it would seem like a no brainer. Well, that is until you have to explain it to Spurs fans. It's ok to criticize ownership and still be a Spurs fan in good standing, if that's what some of you are worried about.
Well, that is a definite concern. I don't see the problem in signing young guys and keeping them on IR if need be to see if you can find someone who can contribute. It's not like it hasn't been done before (Malik Rose, Stephen Jackson, Devin Brown, etc...). Also, if you have a guy you know can play and he's willing to join your club today, why balk at doing so just because he might not be used so much this season? Spurs fans act like the team will always be able to pull a Finley out of the free agent market. That's a one time thing. You can't count on the amnesty clause every season to help you replenish your talent.
Since when did it become a good idea for the Spurs to stop looking for young talent? Since when is it a great idea to turn young talent away? Since when did a 1 year, minimum contract become such a huge burden that could imperil a team's financial future? Apparently a host of teams around the league think the new 'minor league' system is a good idea. Since when are the Spurs, a team lauded for its talent evaluation, not taking advantage of that? It's the Spurs and the Atlanta Hawks. Great company.
Also, given the structure of the NBA salary cap rules it is advantageous to have a young player gain tenure with your team, so that if need be you will have the Early Bird and Bird exceptions to use to retain him.
The Spurs gave up 2 1st rounders in the Rose trade, so they don't have the potential guaranteed obligations that those represented. They also don't have those picks to use to land young prospects. Yet another reason why not using IR this season because of lux tax paranoia is not a good idea.
You don't see the Pistons balking at using IR to their advantage. They also have international prospects playing overseas. They have a management team with a great track record. The rest of the league is not complacent. Now is no time to think that you are so good that you don't need to try to continue to improve. Pop doesn't strike me as someone who thinks like that. But this is not his call. This decision has come from ownership. Ownership seems to be determined not to cross that lux tax threshold, as if there is something inherently wrong in being subject to foregoing any lux tax distributions.
I could understand if the Spurs were operating under the old lux tax rules that would put them in jeopardy of losing a $15 mil distribution in a given season because they went over the threshold, but that's not the case today.
Devin Brown was good enough to supplant Brent Barry in the rotation as the 1st swingman off the bench. And the Spurs let him walk for nothing. Fine, you think he'd be too expensive or whatever, then there is Matt Barnes. Is the minimum for 1 year too much?
Now we're seeing guys who the Spurs identified being picked up by other clubs. Yeah, maybe Ford won't amount to anything, but you just gift wrapped a present for a rival. I don't believe Ford signed a 3 year, $4.5 mil deal.
Last edited by Marcus Bryant; 11-03-2005 at 08:52 AM.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote