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She has a right to her opinion bro, as do you. Don't attack her opinion...give us your take.
Pot, meet kettle.
You really do know how to ruin a perfectly good discussion. And the worst part is, you ruin it with semantics, and still don't answer the question at hand. All I did was suggest that this may not be a baseball town and ask for opinions. THERE IS NO AGENDA IN ASKING FOR OPINIONS. So why don't you give your opinion instead of zeroing in on one part of my post that still has nothing to do with whether or not this is a baseball town.
She has a right to her opinion bro, as do you. Don't attack her opinion...give us your take.
Last edited by samikeyp; 01-17-2006 at 10:48 AM.
ya i got bored at the marlins board.Oh Texan... I guess you got bored at the Marlins board.
Funny how I got a PM from a guy who said you're one of the biggest "pricks" over there.
The funding is in place, that is a true fact, the activation of said funding has yet to be happen, that will take a vote.
Good to hear that I'm regarded as a 'prick' there...where most of the users there make TPark look like a damn genius.
The funding is in place, but it doesnt exist until voted on. Which means nothing until its approved.
You are like that crooked politican who tells nothing but half truths.
The Cubs thing was kind of an inside joke for Mel. She's a big Red Sox fan. But yeah, SA's market would be more like the Royals. Also I saw where the lowly Tigers have low attendance when the Indians came to town for a series with as low as 13,000 and 15,000 people. Damn, that sucks but it happens. And yeah, the Marlins might really suck at first but that’s the nature of a relocated franchise in any sport.
Yeah, that's like saying i'm going to buy a house that's for sale and I know that banks have money. Oops but I forgot - I have to talk to the realtor first and then get approved for a loan. Small details like that.
There is no funding or official plan for a baseball stadium as of right now. Only ideas and schematic funding mechanisms.
I agree to a degree. It brings up a really interesting question that you asked:
Is San Antonio a baseball town?
I’ve heard this discussed and it’s definitely a good question. I would start by also asking if Phoenix was a baseball town prior to it being awarded the Diamondbacks? Or Tampa Bay with the Devil Rays? They are the two most recent franchises. Anyone a good historian?
I think San Antonio CAN be an MLB team since it’s allegiance to the Astros and Rangers might not be as strong as the allegiance to a team like the Cowboys which has been marketed heavily here for decades.
I’ve only been a casual follower of the Astros but when I’ve had the chance to go to a live MLB game it’s been a blast. And I would definitely go if SA had a team and follow the MLB closer.
The Devil Rays are in deep trouble and may be looking to relocate, although if the Marlins do so, one would think something would happen to keep at least one team in FL. I have no clue about the Diamondbacks, though. I don't follow the NL as closely as the AL.
I agree, San Antonio COULD be a baseball town. But baseball just seems to get so much of a shaft here. I mean, Astros in WS for first time and only one local TV news outlet sent a crew. Not too many people seemed to be into it locally. That could change, though and I posted looking for others' opinions (and without 'flawed agenda, I promise).
I am a HUUUGE Rangers fan and made the trek to Arlington last summer for the Johnny Oates retirement ceremony and even caught a double header vs. the White Sox. I always bought prime tickets and paid for a hotel, so I am willing to spend some money on baseball should it come to SA.
Oh and Hector- I am a Red Sox fan, but second to the Rangers. Since Rangers have only made the playoffs like five times in their history, you gotta have someone to cheer for in October, and it sure as isn't gonna be A-Rod and the Skankies.
sounds like a bad girl group!A-Rod and the Skankies
Well, there have been rumors about A-Rod...
allegedly..
Yes, exactly.
How is it a half truth?You are like that crooked politican who tells nothing but half truths.
The funding is in place. I never said a stadium is going to be built or that no vote needed to be taken.
You're just grasping.
Yes there is. A five year extention of the arena hotel-motel tax. That's it.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ose/index.html
Well, isn't this a fine How-'bout-that? The deal for the Nationals' new stadium in Washington, D.C. has hit a snag.
D.C. had until Dec. 31 to sign a lease on the site and secure the needed shekels ($535 million), but the city council grew concerned about rising costs (now estimated at $667 million) and asked Major League Baseball, (the Nats' owner), to cover any overruns. MLB balked. The deadline passed.
MLB has filed for mediation, hoping an arbitrator will force D.C. to put out. Competent government may be an oxymoron, but this move still comes across as a ham-handed attempt by MLB to get its way when further negotiation and compromise are in order.
The Nats now find themselves in a situation much like the one the Minnesota Twins have been enjoying. The Twins have been bedeviled for years by the hobgoblins of budget shortfalls and disagreements about how to cover overruns. A Dec. 31 deadline for the team's latest deal passed after Minnesota's state legislature opted not to fund the $508 million ball orchard by hiking a county sales tax without public consent. The Twins saw a referendum as a deal-breaker.
Gee, I wonder why?
Of the 80-odd columns I have written for this site, the one that generated the most passionate response was the screed last May 25 that questioned the wisdom and value of public funding for buildings that mainly help billionaires pay millionaires. Horror stories (see this June 1 column) poured in from cities struggling to pay the tab and upkeep on stadiums while teams keep the lion's share (or more) of the revenue as real civic needs go wanting and, in some cases, perfectly usable arenas sit idle. Yet wealthy owners keep holding out the tin cup.
This racket is akin to a fat guy in a silk suit, with gravy on his chin and hundred dollar bills falling out of his pockets, knocking on every door in the neighborhood and asking for a handout so he can open a new upscale restaurant. Team owners love using your dough instead of theirs, but cities such as D.C., Minneapolis, Miami, Oakland, and even New York are now more inclined to follow the lead of San Francisco and close the door on the fat guy's foot, or at least drive a hard bargain.
In places like D.C., where baseball has already whiffed twice, political leaders, especially those who are up for re-election ( o, Minnesota), feel heat to provide the wider public with more than just the right to pay $50 to watch Alfonso Soriano sulk. The Nats' new stadium is part of a package that also includes offices, housing, parkland and other goodies.
MLB and D.C. set themselves up for a lovely legal quagmire and public relations nightmare by agreeing to move the team in with such a tight deadline. But MLB president Bob Dupuy grumped in the Jan. 3 Washington Post that D.C. is not easy to do business with and city leaders "frequently quibble with baseball about its commitments."
Well, gosh Becky Lou, why wouldn't they? In recent years, the word "contraction" has been batted around, the Expos were allowed to become neglected ragamuffins in Montreal, and the Twins and Marlins often threatened to move. I won't be surprised to see the Nats threaten to amscray from D.C. if things go awry long enough, but the promised land is turning into a mirage.
Now, roughly one Manny Ramirez contract ($60 million) shy of a new stadium after the Florida state senate declined to enact a sales tax subsidy, the Marlins dispatched emissaries to Portland, Ore., where mayor Tom Potter voiced doubts about public interest in acquiring a team and even uttered an over-my-cold-stiff-carcass declaration of opposition to publicly financed baseball while an education crisis exists in his city.
Potter echoed Florida Senate Majority Leader Alex Villalobos, who told the Miami Herald last May, "Do I think that [a new stadium] is more important than Medicaid reform? No. Do I think it's more important than class size? No. Do I think it's more important than tort reform? No. Do I think it's more important than growth management? No."
DuPuy claims that the Nats will generate $250 million for D.C. in sales taxes and rent payments, but the chorus of scholars crying in the wilderness counters that this kind of pronouncement is so much standard-issue oil de snake. (Google: economic impact benefits new stadiums.) New stadiums rarely deliver on promises, and their main civic value is as a status symbol.
MLB is flush with all-time high revenues, so now might be an au ious time for it to find ways to consistently pick up the tab on its own houses and avoid fiascos like the ones in D.C, Minnesota, and Miami.
Stow the tin cup, fat man, and cough up the cake.
Don't know how accurate this is but I thought it was pretty interesting:
Marlins may fall short if they move
South Florida Business Journal - February 10, 2006
by G. Scott Thomas and Kevin Gale
An analysis of personal income data indicates the Florida Marlins could strike out financially in another market, even if a viable stadium-funding plan is developed.
Bizjournals.com used data on team revenue and ticket prices to estimate how much total personal income a market needs to support a professional sports team. It found only northern New Jersey and the San Bernardino-Riverside area near Los Angeles have the income that would likely support another baseball team.
One problem for the Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria: Southern California already has three teams and the New York metropolitan area has two. Major League Baseball, which has an an rust exemption from Congress, can prevent a team from moving anywhere it wants.
Among the nation's four major sports, the Bizjournals.com study indicates an MLB team requires the most personal income from a region - at least $89.2 billion, which is more than double the other three sports. A National Basketball Association team is viable in a market with $38.4 billion, a National Hockey League in a $35.7 billion market and the National Football League, with its revenue sharing and lucrative TV contracts, can work in a market of $33 billion.
Baseball needs a lot of personal income for support because there are twice as many home games and 2.5 to three times as many seats as basketball and hockey. That creates a lot of sales inventory. Baseball also lacks the salary caps and has limited revenue sharing among teams.
Here's the breakdown of income levels in cities where the Marlins are looking:
* San Antonio: The market has $55.4 billion in personal income and is home to the NBA-champion Spurs. Bizjournals.com estimates there is only $17 billion in personal income left to support another team.
* Las Vegas: The gambling and tourism Mecca has no pro teams and $56.2 billion in personal income - enough for any of the other three leagues, but $30 billion short for baseball.
* Portland, Ore.: The NBA's Trailblazers have one of the NBA's nicest arenas in the Rose Garden. Without them, the $86.5 billion in personal income would be almost enough to support the Marlins, but in reality, there's only about $48.1 billion left to support the team.
* Charlotte, N.C.: The city has the NFL's Carolina Panthers and NBA's Charlotte Bobcats. Charlotte has $74.3 million in personal income, but there's only $3 billion left for the Marlins.
For pro sports in general, South Florida seems to be a market pretty much in balance. The region has $194.7 billion in personal income, which leaves a deficit of only $1.6 billion with four teams.
But it's also clear two of the teams are doing better than the others:
* The Dolphins are the region's oldest pro franchise, with a storied history. Forbes says the Dolphins, at $856 million, ranked 12th in value among the NFL's 32 teams. The team's operating income was estimated at $15.8 million.
* The Miami Heat, with a modern arena and stars Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade, ranked eighth out of 30 NBA teams, with a value of $362 million, Forbes said in December. The team's operating income was put at $11.5 million
* The Florida Panthers, despite playing in a modern arena in Sunrise, ranked 21st out of 25 NHL teams in 2004, with a value of $121 million, but it lost $3.7 million, Forbes said. A lockout eliminated last year's season.
* The Marlins last April were ranked 26th out of 30 Major League baseball teams in value, at $206 million. Loria has said the team lost more than $20 million in 2003 and 2004. (Forbes notes an operating loss of $11.2 million in 2003 and an operating profit of $3 million in 2004.)
Despite winning two World Series les, the Marlins have usually ranked near the bottom in attendance, despite playing in the nation's sixth-biggest urban area with a population of 5.28 million.
Getting a stadium is a priority for Loria and he has good reasons to seek one: Dolphins Stadium is primarily designed for football and the trend in baseball is parks that hearken to an earlier era. Dolphins Stadium is open-air and Loria says the threat of rain keeps fans away.
While the Marlins have an ongoing tour of potential suitors, they haven't given up on South Florida despite numerous concepts - such as a park by the Orange Bowl - falling short of financing.
The latest discussion has centered on two sites in Hialeah.
link
You know...
The more and more I hear about this...
the more 'real' I think this could actually become...
Kinda cool, and as I have said...I would just be thrilled beyond belief that my team would pull into town.
I'm glad they're doing this:
Baseball: S.A. baseball in wait-and-see mode with Marlins
Web Posted: 03/15/2006 12:00 AM CST
Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer
Saying Major League Baseball needs more time to determine if San Antonio is a viable market, the Florida Marlins told Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff on Tuesday that it could be "weeks" before he learns whether relocation talks would continue.
In a conversation with Marlins president David Samson, Wolff said he learned baseball and the Marlins are doing a joint market analysis of San Antonio. News of the study comes six days after Wolff offered the team a deal that called for Bexar County to cover two-thirds of the cost for a $300 million stadium.
"I knew (an analysis) had to be done at some point," Wolff said. "I'm glad it's going to be done up front before we waste a lot of time negotiating (a memorandum of understanding) that might not be approved (by MLB).
"I'm still cautiously optimistic we are going to get to the next step. But the next step is a big one, and I want (the Marlins and MLB) to be comfortable taking it. Baseball has to give the Marlins a red light, a green light or maybe a caution. It's not just what the Marlins want. It's what baseball will agree to."
The Marlins declined comment. A MLB spokesman said its involvement with the World Baseball Classic has prevented officials from taking a close look at Bexar County's plan to spend up to $200 million, contingent on voter approval, to build an open-air stadium.
"We are not in position to make a comment until we study the proposal," said Rich Levin, MLB vice president of public relations.
MLB has allowed the Marlins to explore relocation, but the team has not applied for permission to move. Relocation requires the approval of three-quarters of baseball's owners.
Wolff speculated MLB needs a couple of weeks to learn if there is support among the owners for the Marlins to move to San Antonio.
"(Samson) doesn't want to run down here and make a deal and then have Major League Baseball say, 'Sorry, you can't move,'" Wolff said. "It has to be a tandem decision."
Wolff plans to generate money for a stadium through an extension of the hotel and rental-car taxes used to build the AT&T Center. He said he would call a November election if the Marlins agree to a memorandum of understanding and find local investors.
Samson, stepson of Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria, visited San Antonio in December. Wolff said he expects Samson and other team officials to make another visit soon.
In the meantime, Wolff said he's ready to help the Marlins and baseball with their analysis.
"They are going to look at everything from the stadium deal to the city's corporate base to what kind of cable television deal they can get," Wolff said.
FSN Florida, which is affiliated with Fox Sports Net, recently received exclusive rights to televise Marlins games in South Florida beginning this season. The cable channel declined to reveal the amount it is paying the Marlins to televise as many as 150 of the 162 games.
Such deals typically generate millions for teams. The Los Angeles Angels, for example, reportedly have negotiated a 10-year contract with Fox Sports Net that could be worth as much as $500 million.
"A cable deal could be the thing that moves this thing along or stops it," Wolff said. "It wouldn't make sense for the Marlins to come down here and spend any time looking around without knowing that piece of the puzzle."
The Marlins are looking to move because stadium talks in South Florida have stalled. Marc Ganis, a national sports marketing expert, said the speed in which the county submitted a stadium proposal is impressive.
"It shows San Antonio can get things done," Ganis said. "Think about this from the Marlins' perspective: They have been working for three years to get a stadium deal in South Florida, and then San Antonio comes up with something in no time. It demonstrates the can-do at ude San Antonio has."
But Ganis questions whether a quality ballpark could be built for $300 million.
"The good news is construction costs are relatively modest in that part of the country," Ganis said. "The bad news is bells and whistles such as scoreboards, seats and concession equipment are usually bought from other markets, and you don't get reductions on those items.
"But the biggest number is for concrete, and you can get that at a lower cost in Texas."
link
I don't know why San Antonio is so cheap. The Marlins want a sun-roof stadium. Give it to them. Its almost the same as it was with the Alamo Dome. The Alamo Dome was new to us (residents of SA), but to everyone else outside of SA it was outdated because no luxury suites. Now SA has to spend more money to update the Alamo Dome. SA should do this baseballl stadium done the right way the first time.
"Give it to them?" Maybe SA has better things to spend $400-$500M on than a baseball stadium. SA can hardly support the Missions.
So you don't think SA would go to an air conditioned stadium, more than an open aired stadium in august??Maybe SA has better things to spend $400-$500M on than a baseball stadium. SA can hardly support the Missions
derrr nahh guess not, her her her.
Id rather they spend the 400 million on that, than some more bull social programs.
Bring on the Marlins.
THEY DO, BUT I DON'T SEE THE LEADERS OF THIS CITY ADDRESSING THOSE ISSUES AS HARD AS WOLF IS ADDRESSING THE BASEBALL ISSUE. THIS CITY NEEDS A LOT OF THINGS THAT SHOULD COME BEFORE A BASEBALL TEAM AND A NEW STADIUM. I TOTALLY AGREE, BUT YOU DON'T HEAR ABOUT THIS LEADER PROPOSING THOSE ISSUES AS FAST AND AS HARD AS WOLF IS DOING FOR THE MARLINS.
What does this city need?
The city's the most prosperous its ever been, and you bleeding hearts act like its on its last legs financially.
Its Doing Very Good. Agreed, But There Are A Lot Of Issues In This City That Need To Be Addressed. However, If They Have The Opportunity To Get The Marlins. Do It. If Wolff Is Trying His Best And Hardest To Do It, I Don't Blame Him.
I Would Just Like The City To Approach Other Issues As Hard As He Is.
http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASAp...=.jsp&c_id=fla
Marlins, MLB looking into San Antonio
03/15/2006 8:30 PM ET
By Joe Frisaro / MLB.com
JUPITER, Fla. -- A great deal of talking has been going on behind the scenes between the Marlins and the city of San Antonio regarding the possible relocation of the club.
Right now, the negotiations are in a holding pattern, because before pursuing it further, the team and Major League Baseball will look into the feasibility of the market.
The league and Marlins want to analyze San Antonio's stadium proposal, the media market and the economics of the city. This process likely will take a couple of weeks.
If San Antonio is deemed big-league ready, a second visit from Marlins officials is expected in the near future.
The Marlins are entertaining relocation options along with exploring stadium possibilities in South Florida. Talks with Miami-Dade County officials have stalled.
Marlins president David Samson and other team officials visited San Antonio in early December.
Bexar County, Texas, has offered to ask voters to extend a hotel and car rental tax for a possible baseball stadium. This tax already exists to help fund the AT&T Center, a four-year-old arena that is home to the NBA's Spurs.
The tax would raise about $200 million toward a $300 million stadium. The climate in San Antonio may not require a roof on the building.
For the Marlins to remain in South Florida, the team maintains it needs a facility that has a roof. Such a deal would cost in the $430 million range.
The second le was built more around the teams homegrown talent (cabrera, gonzales, beckett, willis, etc.). They just got too damned expensive after winning the le. Unlike the first one in which they spent millions on superstars, and gave them away the next year.
They still have great talent in the minor league levels, and young superstars at the major league level.
You're right. Nobody really cares if you root for them or not.
A stadium here in SA does not need a roof!!! Have any of you guys been to the park in arlington, its great...Only a couple days out of the season is the opening pitch between noon and 5:00 (hottest part of day). I've been to mission games and they are fun for the faimly, but to compare them to major league games is stupid..You go see MLB to see some of the best baseball players in the world not try and enter a contest that involves spinning in circles with a bat and racing (which is funny as )
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