Game Thread: Chicago Bulls(9-13) at San Antonio Spurs(11-10) Dec 5 2024 7 PM CST 3 AM RIGA

[LeBowen]

Will have to catch up with the game, Vucevic killing us was the expected outcome.
Will be even worse tomorrow with noone to match up with Sabonis.

[John B]

Spurs stealth-gifted Bulls with a win

[benefactor]

Keldon trade value loss

[Fireball]

what the was this game?

[tbdog]

Don't guard vuc with a 6.8 swing.

[exstatic]

If Chicago wanted Flagg, they needed to hold their fire sale last summer, not now or in the near future. There’s too much talent on this team to avoid the play in, or even the playoffs in the pathetic Eastern conference.

[Mal]

Did Wemby missed this one, because of having Bulls` draft pick ?

[exstatic]

Did Wemby missed this one, because of having Bulls` draft pick ?

Maybe. He’s supposed to maybe miss tonight, too, and that has no draft pick ramifications. They certainly played a weird, no center starting lineup last night.

[Seventyniner]

I watched the whole game, outside the last 45 seconds or so. That was hard to watch. I knew the defense would suffer without Wemby but not like that.

It was the inverse of the Suns loss. The offense was good but the defense abysmal.

[LeBowen]

I watched the whole game, outside the last 45 seconds or so. That was hard to watch. I knew the defense would suffer without Wemby but not like that.

It was the inverse of the Suns loss. The offense was good but the defense abysmal.

This just wasn't the game to try to go small because Vucevic has been on a tear and they're actually good at attacking the paint.
My only hope is that PATFO is realizing we just can't compete without a solid backup big.
Collins looks like a dog that needs to be taken behind the shed and dealth with.
Bassey is a decent third stringer gimmick, but I'm not sure he can be an actual backup who can be relied upon to play 15 to 20 minutes each night.

I don't mind seeing Castle chuck every game because his development is the prioriy and the fastest way to do it is by telling him he must shoot in games, but we've got no room for growth with Collins, we need a move to happen because it's impossible to develop anything if your bench unit literally can't function on defense.

[scott]

This just wasn't the game to try to go small because Vucevic has been on a tear and they're actually good at attacking the paint.
My only hope is that PATFO is realizing we just can't compete without a solid backup big.
Collins looks like a dog that needs to be taken behind the shed and dealth with.
Bassey is a decent third stringer gimmick, but I'm not sure he can be an actual backup who can be relied upon to play 15 to 20 minutes each night.

I don't mind seeing Castle chuck every game because his development is the prioriy and the fastest way to do it is by telling him he must shoot in games, but we've got no room for growth with Collins, we need a move to happen because it's impossible to develop anything if your bench unit literally can't function on defense.

I was thinking about this last night in regards to the whole team. We has seen that giving Wemby a green light from 3 is a developmental tool, I'm starting to wonder if they've taken this approach with the entire team.

We are 6th in the NBA in 3PA/gm, but 17th in 3P% (and honestly I was surprised we are even that high). We don't have a roster built of shooters, but we have a game plan built as though we do. (Interesting note, the Thunder are almost identical to us on both measures, we take 40.0 3PA/gm and shoot 34.7%, they take 39.9 3PA/gm and shoot 34.6%). The Spurs and Thunder are anomalies in the Top 10 of 3PA/gm, as the only two who shoot under 36%. (Another note, the Magic are 12th with 37.7 3PA/gm but only shoot a dismal 31.2%).

The last 10 games it's gotten worse though, the Spurs are #4 in the league in 3PA/gm (41.6) and only shooting 33.7% (22nd) in the league. My eyes have been telling me that we've been becoming increasingly reliant on the 3, and the stats confirm it.

[z0sa]

I was thinking about this last night in regards to the whole team. We has seen that giving Wemby a green light from 3 is a developmental tool, I'm starting to wonder if they've taken this approach with the entire team.

We are 6th in the NBA in 3PA/gm, but 17th in 3P% (and honestly I was surprised we are even that high). We don't have a roster built of shooters, but we have a game plan built as though we do. (Interesting note, the Thunder are almost identical to us on both measures, we take 40.0 3PA/gm and shoot 34.7%, they take 39.9 3PA/gm and shoot 34.6%). The Spurs and Thunder are anomalies in the Top 10 of 3PA/gm, as the only two who shoot under 36%. (Another note, the Magic are 12th with 37.7 3PA/gm but only shoot a dismal 31.2%).

The last 10 games it's gotten worse though, the Spurs are #4 in the league in 3PA/gm (41.6) and only shooting 33.7% (22nd) in the league. My eyes have been telling me that we've been becoming increasingly reliant on the 3, and the stats confirm it.

This, in my humble opinion, is Mitch Johnson modernizing the Spurs offense. Only problem? You guessed it, Popovich and co. did not draft/build for this type of game, sad as that fact is considering the Beautiful Game basically was invented by Pop. So we've got a lot of pieces that are square pegs trying to be fit in circular holes IE shooting even though they're streaky, at best.

I feel good for a future where a coach continues this gameplan, but right now, it's gonna be ugly and it will continue to be so until either a) our guys get better at shooting or b) we attain shooters who can play today's style of game.

[rascal]

Are the Spurs quietly tanking again. They seem to hold players out for minor things. How many games has Wemby already missed?

[LeBowen]

I was thinking about this last night in regards to the whole team. We has seen that giving Wemby a green light from 3 is a developmental tool, I'm starting to wonder if they've taken this approach with the entire team.

We are 6th in the NBA in 3PA/gm, but 17th in 3P% (and honestly I was surprised we are even that high). We don't have a roster built of shooters, but we have a game plan built as though we do. (Interesting note, the Thunder are almost identical to us on both measures, we take 40.0 3PA/gm and shoot 34.7%, they take 39.9 3PA/gm and shoot 34.6%). The Spurs and Thunder are anomalies in the Top 10 of 3PA/gm, as the only two who shoot under 36%. (Another note, the Magic are 12th with 37.7 3PA/gm but only shoot a dismal 31.2%).

The last 10 games it's gotten worse though, the Spurs are #4 in the league in 3PA/gm (41.6) and only shooting 33.7% (22nd) in the league. My eyes have been telling me that we've been becoming increasingly reliant on the 3, and the stats confirm it.

We're reliant on 3pt because we can't get into the paint.
As I wrote a few times already, we just don't have the players who are an actual threat when it comes to collapsing the defense.
Castle can do it, but he's a bad shooter and teams live with it.
Keldon's drives are just a roll of the dice with his tunnel vision.
Devin was always afraid of contact, CP3's legs are gone.
Noone else is relevant when it comes to attacking the paint.

If we had more players who could actually finish their drives instead of just kicking it out, we'd be more efficent.
Take any game, rewatch it and you'll see that a lot of our 3pt attempts are bad shots late in the clock.
We obviously changed our style and other than Wemby's green light most 3pts early in the clock are good shots, but most of the time when the possession breaks down we end up taking bad 3pt shots at the end of it.

As for development, I'm fine with every player who actually has room to growth.
But not having a defensively solid backup big is hurting the team and we need a solution.

[rascal]

We're reliant on 3pt because we can't get into the paint.
As I wrote a few times already, we just don't have the players who are an actual threat when it comes to collapsing the defense.
Castle can do it, but he's a bad shooter and teams live with it.
Keldon's drives are just a roll of the dice with his tunnel vision.
Devin was always afraid of contact, CP3's legs are gone.
Noone else is relevant when it comes to attacking the paint.

If we had more players who could actually finish their drives instead of just kicking it out, we'd be more efficent.
Take any game, rewatch it and you'll see that a lot of our 3pt attempts are bad shots late in the clock.
We obviously changed our style and other than Wemby's green light most 3pts early in the clock are good shots, but most of the time when the possession breaks down we end up taking bad 3pt shots at the end of it.

As for development, I'm fine with every player who actually has room to growth.
But not having a defensively solid backup big is hurting the team and we need a solution.

I saw Devin start to take it to the basket and stop and throw a pass out of bounds towards Keldon standing at the 3 point line instead of taking it strong to the basket. Devin is not a strong finisher. Castle is better going to the basket and finishing. Spurs team lacks offenisve creators and they have to find one in next year's draft.

For this team to take a jump and reach another level there needs to be some upgrades to the roster above the role player types that some in this forum only think the Spurs need.

[scott]

This, in my humble opinion, is Mitch Johnson modernizing the Spurs offense. Only problem? You guessed it, Popovich and co. did not draft/build for this type of game, sad as that fact is considering the Beautiful Game basically was invented by Pop. So we've got a lot of pieces that are square pegs trying to be fit in circular holes IE shooting even though they're streaky, at best.

I feel good for a future where a coach continues this gameplan, but right now, it's gonna be ugly and it will continue to be so until either a) our guys get better at shooting or b) we attain shooters who can play today's style of game.

I agree. I'm okay with some ugly results if it's all part of the modernization of the offense. That's part of development as well - it isn't just about player development, but system development as well. There are some times where we overly defer to the 3 (I recall one drive Devin had last night where he passed up the layup attempt to kick out for 3... which I hate), but I'll chalk it all up to that modernization for now and I'll live with it, even if it results in subpar outcomes.

As for development, I'm fine with every player who actually has room to growth.

I'm hoping that the system development will lead to the FO making obvious, overdue, decisions. If Mitch continues with this modern offense, it should make it apparent that we need different types of players (shooters, people who can actually attack the paint, a better backup big, etc). and that the FO will respond to that.

We'll see though. Right now I'm in a generous mood and willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

[LeBowen]

I'm hoping that the system development will lead to the FO making obvious, overdue, decisions. If Mitch continues with this modern offense, it should make it apparent that we need different types of players (shooters, people who can actually attack the paint, a better backup big, etc). and that the FO will respond to that.

We'll see though. Right now I'm in a generous mood and willing to give the benefit of the doubt.

Tbh, it's obvious that if we're to play this way, most of the roster is still missing.

Wemby is obviously untouchable, Castle is exceeding all expectations as a rookie, but we still have to see if they see him as the primary point guard for the future. If they don't and want another point guard, what happens with Devin? I don't want either Castle or Devin playing SF.
Devin is obviously our most complete scorer, but if he can't stay healthy, what's it good for?
Jeremy has improved by a lot and will definitely be a long term piece, but in what capacity? He's still a non-shooting forward, not many of those feature on playoff teams.
Champagnie will surely be a solid bench piece, others might aswell be gone tomorrow and no tears will be shed.
Barnes isn't that old and can be fine as a backup forward for some more years.
I doubt we'd be able to get one solid FRP for the rest of the roster combined, that's how little value they have.

I named 6 players for the rotation if we're to compete properly, we need at least 3 more serious pieces.
Pieces that fit. (I'm assuming CP3 won't be here next season.)
We need a triple threat 6th man in style of Monk/Sexton/Coby White.
We need a legit high volume, high efficency, 6'8+ forward 3pt shooter.
We need a legit rim protector to back Wemby up.
Without those three players, we're not getting anywhere.

[scott]

Tbh, it's obvious that if we're to play this way, most of the roster is still missing.

Obvious to us... maybe not so obvious to the front office that picked up Branham's option and gave Collins 2/35

Wemby is obviously untouchable, Castle is exceeding all expectations as a rookie, but we still have to see if they see him as the primary point guard for the future. If they don't and want another point guard, what happens with Devin? I don't want either Castle or Devin playing SF.
Devin is obviously our most complete scorer, but if he can't stay healthy, what's it good for?
Jeremy has improved by a lot and will definitely be a long term piece, but in what capacity? He's still a non-shooting forward, not many of those feature on playoff teams.
Champagnie will surely be a solid bench piece, others might aswell be gone tomorrow and no tears will be shed.
Barnes isn't that old and can be fine as a backup forward for some more years.
I doubt we'd be able to get one solid FRP for the rest of the roster combined, that's how little value they have.

I named 6 players for the rotation if we're to compete properly, we need at least 3 more serious pieces.
Pieces that fit. (I'm assuming CP3 won't be here next season.)
We need a triple threat 6th man in style of Monk/Sexton/Coby White.
We need a legit high volume, high efficency, 6'8+ forward 3pt shooter.
We need a legit rim protector to back Wemby up.
Without those three players, we're not getting anywhere.

Of the three roles you mention needing filling, I actually don't think they are all that difficult to fill if we are being aggressive. If we wanted, we could even fill them right now with a medium level of aggression.

Back up big: Go out and get Jonas for a bunch of SRPs (two for Jonas, probably 3 more to dump Collins)

6'8" forward who can shoot: FRP for Cam Johnson. Might require a second FRP. This is probably the one that will be hardest to fill because you don't want to pay the price. You may decide to wait for the draft here or go for #LauriThread2025

Triple Threat 6th Man: Undoubtedly Sexton and Coby (what about Ayo?) are available. So is Cam Thomas, but he'll end up costing you a lot to keep, and he plays negative levels of defense and is very flawed, probably wants to be a starter.

Jeremy and Devin are actually the two pieces that worry me most. Devin because of his health mostly but there are other concerns that a few of us have discussed in other threads. Jeremy because I don't think he'll ever be able to shoot, so unless Castle develops into a reliable shooter it is going to create problems. I think he can definitely be our "Draymond" in his own way... but it relies on Castle developing that shooting and if Castle doesn't I think he'll still be better than Sochan and you'll want to prioritize Steph over Jeremy.

[Splits]

This just wasn't the game to try to go small because Vucevic has been on a tear and they're actually good at attacking the paint.
My only hope is that PATFO is realizing we just can't compete without a solid backup big.
Collins looks like a dog that needs to be taken behind the shed and dealth with.
Bassey is a decent third stringer gimmick, but I'm not sure he can be an actual backup who can be relied upon to play 15 to 20 minutes each night.

I don't mind seeing Castle chuck every game because his development is the prioriy and the fastest way to do it is by telling him he must shoot in games, but we've got no room for growth with Collins, we need a move to happen because it's impossible to develop anything if your bench unit literally can't function on defense.

Wonder if we can send him to South Dakota, dope him up so he foams at the mouth, and call the governor