Mvp Race

[jochhejaam]

Dirk with another game winner last night, despite a poor shooting night... and he still found other ways to contribute by getting to the line and rebounding the ball well... the sign of a true MVP.

I give Lebron the edge right now but I wouldn't consider it an injustice if Dirk won MVP. If the overall record has any bearing on the award it may very well go to Dirk.

Longshot = Billups

[1Parker1]

It's down between Dirk and Billups...Lebron has impressed me these last few games, but I still think he's too young and inexperienced to get the award.

Kobe, people aren't going to vote for because his team isn't exactly a 50 win team. Although, if I had a vote, it'd probably go to him. Simply because I saw the Suns vs Lakers game the other night....start of 4th quarter Kobe finally got a breather, and is all I can say. Lakers completely collapsed and in 3 minutes a 2 point lead by the Suns suddenly turned to 10-12.

[1Parker1]

See? That's the thing with this years MVP vote..there's no clear cut favorite. At the start of this thread, a few months ago, I was convinced it had to be Nash. Now the Suns are slowly crashing back to Earth, while other teams are stepping up. Then I thought it was Kobe, but his 4th quarter heroics have gone down since last thought that. Then I thought it should be Billups, but then I realized he has Sheed, Rip, and Big Ben playing along side him...that's gotta help him! Etc. etc.

[Medvedenko]

I hope Kobe wins, as he's having his best season of his illustrious career... Now with that being said, I'm sure if any of those other candidates scored 81 points in the game they would win hands down.....

[jochhejaam]

I hope Kobe wins, as he's having his best season of his illustrious career... Now with that being said, I'm sure if any of those other candidates scored 81 points in the game they would win hands down.....

There are 82 games played during the regular season therefore a single game, no matter how great, does not an MVP season make.

Nazr had games of 30/16 and 18/20 for the Spurs this year, totals that Duncan (nor any other Spur) has not surpassed in one game this season but that certainly doesn't make Nazr the MVP for the Spurs.

[jochhejaam]

I hope Kobe wins, as he's having his best season of his illustrious career... Now with that being said, I'm sure if any of those other candidates scored 81 points in the game they would win hands down.....

If you could make a case for 1 game earning the MVP then you should be able to likewise make a case for not being MVP based on a single game performance.
Case in point: Kobe was 9-33 from the field and 0-6 from 3 pt range in a game against the Spurs this year.
I don't think anyone in their right mind would want to disqualify him based on that single poor performance.

It's an award for an individual's performance over the course of the entire season.

That being said Kobe's having an excellent year. Definitely worthy of consideration for MVP.

[dmac]

do they look at just numbers (like baseball) or do they care about the contribution to the team. If they go by numbers alone, it must be Kobe. If they look at the team contribution, I'd say dirk diggler.

[JamStone]

If they go by numbers alone, it isn't Kobe. It must be LeBron.

Right now, I think it is LeBron's award to lose. Although, I can easily see Kobe, Dirk, or Nash winning it as well.

[1Parker1]

Question: How many games do you think the Cavs would win if they had Kobe instead of Lebron??

[v2000]

Question: How many games do you think the Cavs would win if they had Kobe instead of Lebron??

probably the same as Kobe is right now with the Lakers (40-45 wins), only because they are in the east. if they were in the west with Kobe, they would win 35 games. Kobe is a selfish ball hog, terrible teammate, and a jerk. he will NEVER be even CLOSE to Jordan. Jordan made his teammates better. Kobe makes them worse. Put Lebron on the Lakers, and they win 50-55 games. Put Jordan in his prime on the Lakers right now, Odom becomes an All-Star, and they win a le.

[Medvedenko]

Hey V2000....62 Kobe....61 Mavs after 3 quarters....
Oh, and if Kobe is such a horrible teammate and selfish player why does he have 3 rings while carrying the big cheese puff to the playoffs and contributing to the winning. Your logic is so re ed there's no need for a rebuttal. So basically you're telling me that with the Cavs sans Lebron in the West they wouldn't make the playoffs with Kobe. What you are eluding to is the Cavs without Lebron is a more incapable team than the Lakers without Kobe...please get Cuban out of your pants and use that brain of yours.

[v2000]

Hey V2000....62 Kobe....61 Mavs after 3 quarters....
Oh, and if Kobe is such a horrible teammate and selfish player why does he have 3 rings while carrying the big cheese puff to the playoffs and contributing to the winning. Your logic is so re ed there's no need for a rebuttal. So basically you're telling me that with the Cavs sans Lebron in the West they wouldn't make the playoffs with Kobe. What you are eluding to is the Cavs without Lebron is a more incapable team than the Lakers without Kobe...please get Cuban out of your pants and use that brain of yours.

Hey Medvedenko. Mavs 59 wins, Kobe, 41 wins. The win is all that matters. If you had any knowledge of basketball, you would know thats all that matters you dumb .

and PLEASE!!! without Shaq (who was also in his prime), that team won NOTHING. and i NEVER said that the Cavs with Kobe wouldnt make the playoffs. I said that if the Cavs were in the West, and had Kobe, then yea, they would not make the playoffs. I was saying more that Kobe is a bad teammate and makes his teammates worse, while Lebron is quite the opposite. If it werent for Kobe, Odom would be a 20-10 player, and probably be shooting around 50%.

I shouldnt expect much from you anyways. You are probably just a bandwagon Laker fan that doesnt know what the he is talking about. A true non-homer Laker fan that knows the game of basketball knows that Kobe is a terrible teammate and is very overrated. He is probably the most talented player in the NBA (along with Lebron) but his teammate skills and people skills are not very good. also, Kobe is probably the best one on one player in the NBA, but one on one doesnt win games or championships. Team play, which Kobe lacks more than anything, wins games and championships.

So please, get your mouth off his penis and shut up.

[Medvedenko]

Thanks for the insight...maybe you can talk smack when your "team" actually wins something other than in the regular season. I guess you think the East is the better divsion. Man, you're a complete tool...you ask anyone of the posters here on board they'll let you know my homerism is tempered quite the bit. Obviously, you don't understand this. Does Dirk make his teammates play better defense...Hey, I love Dirk as a player and he's damn good, that's one thing I can agree on, but then again saying Dirk is good is like saying the sun is hot. You add nothing to this forum.

[v2000]

Thanks for the insight...maybe you can talk smack when your "team" actually wins something other than in the regular season. I guess you think the East is the better divsion. Man, you're a complete tool...you ask anyone of the posters here on board they'll let you know my homerism is tempered quite the bit. Obviously, you don't understand this. Does Dirk make his teammates play better defense...Hey, I love Dirk as a player and he's damn good, that's one thing I can agree on, but then again saying Dirk is good is like saying the sun is hot. You add nothing to this forum.

ok, its kind of hard to follow you and understand your point when you talk about 3 or 4 completely different things, so lemme take a crack at it...

I never said the East is better. Im not sure where you got that idea.

Dirk may not be the best defender around, but his play motivates his teammates, lightens the load on them, and helps them play better. I suppose in a sense, it could translate into better defense.

That point about the sun and Dirk had absolutely nothing to do with this conversation and is quite irrevelant. What is your point? That you are a moron?

[TDMVPDPOY]

seriously if duncan can sumhow post up 50ppg 20rpg 5bpg 5asp for the remaining regular season games, he better get sum recognition, cose his goin to stop ur face in withi his PF foot

[Medvedenko]

never said the East is better. Im not sure where you got that idea.

You said if Kobe was on the Cavs they would wouldn't win the same amount of games as the Lakers have won this year; which translates in the Cavs being a worse team and the East being a more difficult conference. My point about the 81 point game is just that, it's only 1 game and I truly understand that it doesn't make an MVP. However as we discuss the MVP we look at this hallmark as a deterent for Kobe and if anyone of the other guys had accomplished this feat it would be regarded in the utmost reverence. There's just too much vitrolic hate for Kobe that it transcends any logic.

[CubanMustGo]

ESPN.com's Ric Bucher is certainly not going to vote for Dirk (or LeBron, for that matter) as MVP:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=11357

Sam (Arlington, TX): Hey Ric, nice peice today in the Daily Dime; however, I cannot help but criticize you and the rest of the ESPNers for not recognizing Dirk as a MVP canindate. All we want in Dallas is a little recognition, and when I log on to espn.com I see your column, which fails to include Dirk, and a poll which does the same. Come on man, what gives? Thats ridiculous!

SportsNation Ric Bucher: Dirk could've been mentioned in place of Brand, in terms of a guy who has been statistically impressive for a team that was better than expected. He's not on my ballot because I don't see how he makes the other Mavs better. He's not a particularly good passer, he's not a help defender and he doesn't create shots for other guys. He's a wonderful weapon and he's stepped up as a leader with Fin and Nash gone, but Josh Howard fits my idea of an MVP more than Dirk.

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Ben (SF, CA): Yo Ric, can you make up an acronym award for Dirk? Seems like he was the only legit MVP candidate who didn't win anything in your Daily Dime piece.

SportsNation Ric Bucher: MUSPG: Most Underrated Saxophone-Playing German.

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Aaron (Indianapolis, IN): you guys always point of the flaws in LeBron's game, which happens often with great players. But at this point what more can he do? Average 40 and a triple double? Be careful cus he might just do it!

SportsNation Ric Bucher: Aaron is right, the best do get scrutinized more than the average player. But here's the simplest answer to both questions: He can be smarter. Much smarter. It's not a matter of taking the last shot every time. It's about looking to take the last shot every time, about forcing the defense to stop him first. All too many times, LeBron settles. He makes an acceptable play but not the best play. Say what you want about Kobe, he fully understands who he has around him and what his best chance of winning is and he goes for it. Throughout the course of a game, he's setting up his opponent, anticipating where the game is going to be won in the fourth quarter. Nash and Billups are very similar in that regard. Dirk and Elton Brand just don't have the pure ability to control a game in that manner. LeBron has the talent but not the awareness. Which makes him amazing that he can do what he can do. But it doesn't make him MVP.

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Pat (Austin, TX): Is it just me, or did you just say LeBron doesn't have the awareness? I've watched every Cavs game this year, and while I won't call myself an expert like you do, I understand the game. Like Aaron said, the best are always scrutinized the most. Give the kid a break. The win against NO\OKC DOES mean something - momentum going into the playoffs, Mr. "Expert".

John Frisco, Tx: Well maybe if you wrote a halfway informed article about it people wouldn't be questioning it. do you even watch games?

Rob (Dallas): Ric- I was wondering if I could get a job at ESPN. Apparently you have ZERO basketball knowledge, and you have a job there. To say Dirk is not an MVP, and doesnt make his team better is not only moronic, but it proves that you dont do your own research, you just listen to dopes like Charles Barkley. Please file your resignation today.

SportsNation Ric Bucher: Good to know LeBron has his supporters.

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Duncan, San Antone: Who cares about the MVP- it's all about championships....

SportsNation Ric Bucher: Amen to that.

[Pistons < Spurs]

Kobe is a selfish ball hog, terrible teammate, and a jerk.

Here ya go...

Just in case you need some more....

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I was saying more that Kobe is a bad teammate and makes his teammates worse, while Lebron is quite the opposite. If it werent for Kobe, Odom would be a 20-10 player, and probably be shooting around 50%.

Besides LO averaging a double-double last year(first in his career) and shooting 4% higher than he did in Miami, you're right...


So who else has he made worse?

[Medvedenko]

I guess Smush parker, Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown having career years under the guidance of Kobe doesn't mean much as well. Still, I understand playing time is paramount, it still shows that given the lack of talent Kobe has around him he's still making the playoffs and putting up sick #'s.

[v2000]

You said if Kobe was on the Cavs they would wouldn't win the same amount of games as the Lakers have won this year; which translates in the Cavs being a worse team and the East being a more difficult conference. My point about the 81 point game is just that, it's only 1 game and I truly understand that it doesn't make an MVP. However as we discuss the MVP we look at this hallmark as a deterent for Kobe and if anyone of the other guys had accomplished this feat it would be regarded in the utmost reverence. There's just too much vitrolic hate for Kobe that it transcends any logic.

No, i said if he was on the Cavs, they WOULD win the same amount of games that the Lakers have won.

and i fell quite the opposite... i think that Kobe may get MVP JUST BEACAUSE of that 81 point game and all the scoring this year, and the fact that all analysts think he is just so good. Hes a damn good player, but IMO, he does not deserve the MVP award, because his team is struggling to make the playoffs.

[slayermin]

I guess Smush parker, Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown having career years under the guidance of Kobe doesn't mean much as well. Still, I understand playing time is paramount, it still shows that given the lack of talent Kobe has around him he's still making the playoffs and putting up sick #'s.

I will give you Chris Mihm. Mihm, before he turned his ankle, was playing inspired ball. He has improved his game through hard work and perseverance. I would not credit Kobe at all for his improvement.

Kwame Brown and Smush Parker are way too inconsistent to be considered better players. Maybe there stats are better because they are getting more minutes, but I wouldn't exactly say they are vastly improved players.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

v2000, if teammates have no bearing on the argument and it's strictly where they finish record wise, you just made the argument for Chauncey over Dirk...

[Darrin]

I guess Smush parker, Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown having career years under the guidance of Kobe doesn't mean much as well. Still, I understand playing time is paramount, it still shows that given the lack of talent Kobe has around him he's still making the playoffs and putting up sick #'s.

Just call me the useless fact guy:

Kwame Brown: 6.9 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.0 apg, .65 bpg in 27.3 MPG. This is not his statistical best season: 10.9 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1.5 apg, .70 bpg in 30.3 mpg in 2003-04.

Smush Parker: 11.4 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 3.7 apg, and 1.71 spg in 34.0 mpg. This is his career season. His previous best was 02-03.

Chris Mihm: 10.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 1.0 apg, 1.26 bpg in 26.9 mpg. This is also his best season. His previous best was last year.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

You really can only compare seasons for Mihm, Brown and LO. That being said, the argument "he makes other teammates better" is a weak one IMO.

Take Nash, for instance. Marion's numbers are the pretty much the same with or without him. Same for James Jones and Joe Johnson. But you don't hear that side of it. You only hear Boris Diaw, regardless if he was playing out of position in ATL and is thriving in the Phoenix O.