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You'd think the MVP would be able to stop a 19-0 run...
The Suns will never win a le with Mike D'entures as their coach. It's Nellie ball, part II. It's a gimmick scheme that comes apart under pressure.
You'd think the MVP would be able to stop a 19-0 run...
Obviously it isn't about winning games, caliber of teammates, having a complete game, putting up statistics or being the best at your position. Maybe they should change it from the "most valuable player" award to the "valuable player" award.
Nash for VP.
No, but when you can't make he's the slam-dunk best in the game today, then the wrong guy has been MVP.
And it has a little to do with it when those other 10 guys ahead of him haven't won ONE MVP.
Last edited by Darrin; 04-26-2006 at 11:02 PM.
You'd think the MVP would have a ring...
S. Marion = playoff choker
not worth the max I trade him if I am a sun fan
1987-88 Los Angeles Lakers. That's the last time that an NBA Champion allowed their opponents to score as many points as the Phoenix Suns allowed this season (102.0). Last year it was worse. (103.3).
The last time a Championship team allowed over 100 points a game was 1994-95 when the 47-35 Houston Rockets had to come back from 3-1 twice in the playoffs to become Champions.
Steve Nash is 32. We heard the same hype about the New Jersey Nets, the Sacramento Kings, and the Dallas Mavericks. The last time I checked the Los Angeles Lakers, San Antonio Spurs, and Detroit Pistons won the Championships of this decade.
Yes, 2005-2006 will be remembered forever as the Era of Steve Nash Dominance.
Oh and by the way...Lakers currently owning the Suns
Shoogarbear...I think your prediction may just come true
this is the second straight game the lakers are taking it to the suns
suns were 10-0 against kobe with nash
but phil jackson makes adjustments
suns coach has not
suns are in trouble
lakers are actually looking scary good
but it against the suns without their d men so who knows
they better give it to him in game 5 because that could be the last home game for him this season
Of course as I said that, Nash is currently leading them back into the game.
nash had allstar talent surounding him last year as well.
all the writers said they voted for him over shaq only because of his teams record being the best in the nba!
i wonder whats their excuse this yr!
The Great White Hoax....
^
Really?Shoogarbear...I think your prediction may just come true
Oh, you mean the one about the Phoenix-LA series.
Really?
Oh, you mean the one about the Phoenix-LA series.
I don't know what's with all the Nash hate. This year there wasn't really a clear winner, but I think Nash is legit. I wanted Dirk to get it, but if you think about the "2-time" complainers, just using that logic, "well, I can't vote for Nash, he won it last year..." doesn't really make sense since last year has nothing to do with how he good he was this year as it is for anyone deciding the vote. And Magic Johnson's era, Michael Jordan's era has nothing to do with 2006!
THe Regular Season MVP award isn't even something get worked up about anyway or any of the individual regular season awards. THey're just distractions from the Ring, so who cares, the opponents can rack up their awards while the real ones get the job done.
You're overstating this a bit. Dominating means to me that you're able to put a team away. The Suns are the more talented team, and that's why the Lakers cannot put them away. The Spurs dominated the Kings in game one. The Pistons dominated the Bucks in game 2.
But the way the Lakers are playing - the relentless pursuit of the basketball, controlling tempo, the solid shot selection, making the big plays, playing smart and hungry, sharing team responsibilities like rebounding and passing amongst 12 guys - those are the things that are keeping the Lakers in this series. That's why I picked them to win this series. They have a long way to go, but they took the first step tonight.
Please, don't get overhyped between games. The only way this game should have struck someone upside the head is if they thought 54 wins guaranteed the Suns a playoff spot in the next round.
Ups to Sasha and Odom playing so well (and of course, Kobe). Kwame played sloppy and/or scared. He made tough turnovers early and late, and some just dumb plays; fouls that weren't even called. And Smush got rattled because his shot wasn't falling. I bring this up because they will need both of these guys to rebound by Game 3 and just play smarter and more loose.
Do you really have to point out the advantage to the Lakers in terms of adjustments? Mike D'Antoni is coached his 17th playoff game tonight. Phil Jackson's 2003-04 playoff run had 23 games.
When a vote is this close, it's one of two things. Either everyone is so mediocre that a winner doesn't distinguish himself or there are so many qualified candidates that the winner can't distinguish himself.
The latter is the case here, and I think giving Steve Nash more MVPs that any other guard in the history of the game besides Magic and Jordan is a very good argument for saying "You got one last year Steve, there's just too many great guys this season." What I'm saying is that what will happen to the history of the award should be a tie-breaker, not the first reason to dismiss.
And I don't buy it. Steven A. Smith on the 6PM Sportscenter as much said that since Nash was the MVP last season, and no one really stepped forward to taking it, he cast his vote for Steve Nash. He said "Let me use a boxing medaphor someone has to step up and take your le away from you. I didn't see that happen, and based on the season he had, I voted for Steve Nash."
That's AT LEAST one voter voted for Nash this season and used last season to justify it.
I'll put down my gun when the media, who voted for this, puts down theirs. We vote on Most Improved Player using the previous season as justification. We vote for every award - not in a vac - but by what they have done in their careers prior, where there team was before them, etc.
Sure it is. 20 years from now, someone will know who David Robinson was. Will they know who Rasheed Wallace was, Keith Van Horn? My guess is no. MVPs are about saying "This was the best player of this season. Remember him." And Steve Nash is not the best player this year, plain and simple.
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Chauncey Billups
3. Lebron James
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Elton Brand
6. Steve Nash
7. Tony Parker
8. Dwyane Wade
9. Gilbert Arenas
10. Vince Carter
That's how my ballot would've looked.
To satisfy all you s out there, I've called the league office and they've created a few new "secret" awards this year. The first year winners are:
MVPFI (Most Valuable Plantar Fasciitis Injury) - Tim Duncan's foot
MVTG (Most Valuable Token Girlfriend) - Tony Parker
MVFA (Most Valuable Flop Artist) - Manu Ginobili
MVRAHS (Most Valuable Ray Allen Hand-Slapper) - Bruce Bowen
MVWMLA (Most Valuable Will Smith Look-Alike) - Robert Horry
GD (Giant ) - Brent Barry
MIHTLLBB (Most Improved Haircut To Look Like Brent Barry) - Beno Udrih
MUBATWAC (Most Unabashadly Blantant Attempt to Win a Championship) - Michael Finley and Nick Van Exel (tie)
MPMSRJ (Most Pock Marks Since Randy Johnson) - Gregg Popovich
MPFASFBTAS (Most Pump Fakes and Shuffled Footsteps Before Taking a Shot) - Nazr Mohammed
Anyone who hates on Nash and the Suns refuses to look at the more intangible aspects that make a player the "most valuable" to his team: leadership, humility, unselfishness, and overall control of a game. Nash has all of these qualities, while many of your other darlings (Dirk - yells at teammates on court; Kobe - shoots 100 times per game; LeBron - still a little raw when it comes to leadership). Chauncey is probably the most Nash-like, but he'll have a hard time winning the trophy with that whole starting 5 out there. And many of you are probably ignoring the fact that the Suns would have been pushing 60 games if they hadn't gotten off to such a rough start (4-5) and then lost a key element of their defensive shift (Kurt Thomas) late in the season. I'm not even going to mention the failed attempt to bring Amare back.
Still, most of you like to look at stats for your reasoning, so I'll mention that as a team, the Suns were more "defensively efficient" than even the Pistons (according to John Hollinger of ESPN.com), Nash is one of only 3 players in history ever to shoot over 50% FG, 40% 3pt, and 90% FT (other two are Mark Price and Larry Bird), and of the "9 rebounds" that were missing from Amare, Nash picked up 1, Boris Diaw picked up almost 7, Kurt Thomas had 8, and Shawn Marion picked up an extra one per game. Additionally, for those of you that mention how Nash was able to average more per game because Amare was gone and he needed to pick up a larger scoring load, let's also not forget that he only lost 1 assist per game (worth 2-3 points per game) and his scoring average went up almost 4 points per game.
So what did he do with those 10.5 assists per game and his overall team leadership? He only allowed 6 players on the team to have career scoring years (Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, James Jones, Eddie House, Leandro Barbosa, and Boris Diaw). Call it "the system" or whatever you will, but teams with just a system and not someone who can run it properly don't win 50 games, their division, and the #2 seed in the Western Conference. (Let's not forget that LeBron puts up these numbers against Eastern Conference teams.)
Nash is easily the most valuable to his teams success, regardless of whether he's a strong defensive player or scores the majority of his team's points - which seem to be the criteria you've selected to be most important. Tim Duncan has also won the MVP on averaging 20 and 10 and displaying strong overall leadership and consistent performance. I hope you don't want to remove his MVP trophy because he won while playing with a strong defensive player in David Robinson or the current architect of Dirk's success (I disagree because Dirk still has a lot to work on) - Avery Johnson. MJ didn't win his MVP awards when he was putting up LeBron's numbers, but when he learned how to lead his team to victory and involve his teammates in the overall success of the basketball operation.
When a vote is this close, it's one of two things. Either everyone is so mediocre that a winner doesn't distinguish himself or there are so many qualified candidates that the winner can't distinguish himself.
The latter is the case here, and I think giving Steve Nash more MVPs that any other guard in the history of the game besides Magic and Jordan is a very good argument for saying "You got one last year Steve, there's just too many great guys this season." What I'm saying is that what will happen to the history of the award should be a tie-breaker, not the first reason to dismiss.
And I don't buy it. Steven A. Smith on the 6PM Sportscenter as much said that since Nash was the MVP last season, and no one really stepped forward to taking it, he cast his vote for Steve Nash. He said "Let me use a boxing medaphor someone has to step up and take your le away from you. I didn't see that happen, and based on the season he had, I voted for Steve Nash."
That's AT LEAST one voter voted for Nash this season and used last season to justify it.
I'll put down my gun when the media, who voted for this, puts down theirs. We vote on Most Improved Player using the previous season as justification. We vote for every award - not in a vac - but by what they have done in their careers prior, where there team was before them, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManuTim_best of Fwiendz
The Regular Season MVP award isn't even something get worked up about anyway or any of the individual regular season awards. THey're just distractions from the Ring, so who cares, the opponents can rack up their awards while the real ones get the job done.
Sure it is. 20 years from now, someone will know who David Robinson was. Will they know who Rasheed Wallace was, Keith Van Horn? My guess is no. MVPs are about saying "This was the best player of this season. Remember him." And Steve Nash is not the best player this year, plain and simple.
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Chauncey Billups
3. Lebron James
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Elton Brand
6. Steve Nash
7. Tony Parker
8. Dwyane Wade
9. Gilbert Arenas
10. Vince Carter
That's how my ballot would've looked.
Well Kobe Bryant had a lot less argument than Steve Nash because he is a 7th seed with PHil Jackson. 81 points may fool a few people, but Nash and Lebron play a more rounded game than Kobe. Kobe Bryant is hype, and he backs up some, but the marketing tries to sell him as MVP when a 7th seed team never wins MVP.
All I meant by" Steve Nash's season winning it Last year does not take away how good he was this year" was this...Like Steve A Smith's logic (no taking away form the fact that he is a ) "Steve Nash made his case again, and no one stepped up." Therefore, what's the problem. You're acting like I said MVP's of the past are completely irrelevant, when I just meant MVP's are being voted in the context of the season for the most part. Everyone who votes for MVP will refer to previous seasons, but they still fall back at the Numbers right now! and that's all I was saying about Nash's legitmacy. As for the Kobe award. The MVP goes to best TEAM PLAYER, it's an award in the context of the TEAM. People confuse it with Most TALENTED PLAYER AWARD. Put any greatly talented player on a team with a great Coach, They'll make the playoffs.
Nash is more Crucial to his Team, and it's system than Kobe has been to the Lakers. Last year could have hurt Kobe if they considered it. 50 % team is not impressive. Lakers have been compromised around a guy who has to get HIS, which risks a few losses in the regular season, over team. Kobe's talented no doubt, but seeing him break away from the system time and time again when thinks everything he chucks is gold, is not what Basketball "purists" like to see. He's impressive but he's selfish at times, and that has hurt his case.
Last edited by ManuTim_best of Fwiendz; 04-27-2006 at 01:38 AM.
I was surprised when I knew Nash gets the award this year.
Without Kobe and Lebron, LAL and CLE are just NOTHING, never had a chance to go to the playoffs. However without Nash, PHX still got some good players.
Without Dirk and Chauncey, DAL and DET have no chance to win the champ. However, even with Nash, I don't consider PHX as champ contender, simply because they don't play defense.
Therefore, if I pick one from all those candidates, I would pick Kobe or Lebron, because they have an amazing year carrying their garbage teams on their backs.
If I pick one from Kobe and Nash, I would pick Kobe, because he is the best player. I personally think the best player = the most valuable player.
If I pick one from Nash and Chauncey, I would pick Chauncey. Nash had more all stars around him last year. Larry Brown has gone but DET have the best record is because Chauncey runs Flip's offense system perfectly, at the same time he still plays defense. Chauncey is playing the best ball in his career. If they don't give Flip "coach of the year", give the MVP to Chauncey.
I hope Kobe would get it, if not Kobe then Dirk, Chauncey, just not Nash. I don't hate Nash. But I just never thought he would repeat.
A team win 64 games, the most since the 1999-00 LA Lakers (67-15), he jumps his numbers from 16 and 6 to 19 and 9 and his turnover don't increase. An NBA Finalist the season before, they win 10 more games. A year before, the MVP averaged 15 and 11 for a 62-win team.
Yeah, that's complete homerism.
As for Kobe Bryant, I am not a fan. I just don't like him. But I know an MVP when I see him. And all you have to do is look at his pursuit of the basketball in the game tonight. He wasn't playing to score points; I saw him break into bad shots maybe 3 of his 21 shots. He's smarter, more mature of a player. The loads of talent and bull the Lakers have put up with is apparently paying off.
He increases his scoring by 5 points a night, shoots a career high in Field Goal Percentage, and his team win 11 more games and gets back in the playoffs. Yeah, the guy is completely selfish, worrying about the wrong things out there.
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