Haha, holy crap... Look at the thread's le?
Oh damn...
making the wcfs is a nice accomplishment. im not gonna deny that.
but im also not gonna say that making a conference final means you are knocking on the door of an inevitable le or something.
its also worthwhile to be self critical and take a step back to analyze how they got there; luckily for you Suns apologists, there are people in the Phoenix front office who are surely taking a good hard look at what their guys need to improve for next year.
jmar; you are an idiot
"take a step back" in the reflexive, self-examination sense.
your run is over, now is the time for a sober assesment of how you guys can get better and how close you really are to winning a le.
its funny you took it in the literal sense; you must be an engineer.
Nothing is ever inevitable. Not in any sport. Injury occurs and does so at the most inopportune times (see Raja Bell's injury).
However, if being one of the final four teams left standing isn't an indicator of being a le contender, then Pistons? Yeah, your 10-8 record is much worse than last year. Buh-bye.
Not every team can sweep every round.
You have no idea to whom you're talking. Ask Bill. I'm probably the most critical Suns fan there is. With me, it's always what went wrong, not what went right. If they win, its a "Yeah, but they still got killed on the glass or still took too many threes" mentality. Before the playoffs I said this Suns team would struggle, even in the first round and that, unless they started to play hard, they could even lose. I had them losing to the Clippers in six games in the second round and believe it or not, to the Mavs in six games in the Conference Finals.its also worthwhile to be self critical and take a step back to analyze how they got there; luckily for you Suns apologists, there are people in the Phoenix front office who are surely taking a good hard look at what their guys need to improve for next year.
I'm hardly a Suns apologist. I just don't like idiocy.
Last edited by JMarkJohns; 06-05-2006 at 01:56 PM.
Sure...
When I, as an English major and Journalist see Phoenix Suns: Take a step back it doesn't indicate anything but an opinion that these said Suns have taken a step backwards.
A sober assessment is this team playing in the Western Conference Finals wasn't the Suns team they had planned for in the offseason and that with Amare, Kurt Thomas and a healthy Raja Bell, they should be no worse off next year and may be significantly better.
That's all you need know, though, throughout this thread you have dismissed this aspect as well.
Besides, who the are you to think you're an authority on the Suns? You saw what, 10 games this year? Give or take a handful? I watched and/or taped every single game, save for three or four. Yet you are the one who's going to tell me what up?
Get the out of town!
its true that I haven't watched nearly as much Suns basketball as you, and I often find this line of reasoning to have a valid point.
in this case, though, i believe judgements can be made about the team based on there style of play and the ongoing storyline throughout nba history that suggests it is next to impossible to win a championship playing with the gimmick offense/one dimensional team that the Suns put out there.
I haven't seen your team so much, but I learned a lot about this firsthand while watching your team when they were called Don Nelson's WCF Mavericks of 2003.
As for the way you took the le of this thread, I think this reveals the way you go through my posts just looking for things to get pissed off at and expecting the worst. The punctuation (inclusion of a well placed colon) of the thread le is a clear indication that i didn't mean it in the regressive sense.
that explains some of your hostility though..i agree it would be crazy to argue that these Suns took a step backwards this year.
so much of what you put forth is just misinterpreted or outright misinformation to the point where by the time I correct you, your already too pissed off to do anything but just go into some other attack mode.
Do you still think you were onto something when you tore into me about not listing the Suns among teams other than the Suns who could beat the LA teams, for instance?
They didn't make the schedule or pick who they wanted to match up against. And in the PO's you only have to be 4gms over .500 to win a le, no matter.
BTW, wasn't that unimpressive Faker team as you call them, the ones that handed the Mavs their worst loss of the season? 22pts, i believe.
Geez pussface, Even Chaz in bringing the hammer now.
Now you're adding comedy to your routine.
Whatever - Suns have blown out the Mavs twice this year in the regular season and held the lead once (both games at home - lost the one in 2OT) and then blown them out twice in the playoffs and lost the lead in the clinching game 6... they had difficulty closing in the beginning of the season and it bit them in the ass at the end of it too... that's why they had an 0-7 record in games decided by 3 pts or less this year... the main reason - early in the season it was chemistry issues and Nash admitted that he wasn't completely in shape... the second reason was that they didn't have their expected inside presence (Amare Stoudemire) to take over the game when they absolutely needed a score to stop the run(s)...
A main difference (since I have almost all the games in digital form... and it's summer... and I'm now bored and depressed, so I watch old games to make myself happy) is that in those late game situations Nash used to get calls/3 point plays when he drove to the basket and Dirk didn't get this extra-special treatment he's gotten all playoffs... with Nash not getting that respect, he went away from his game again and shot a lot of jumpers or passed out to the other guys... needless to say, the Suns lost the series, but they had a real shot at it because the Mavs aren't the untouchable team all these trolls make them out to be, especially if the Mavs didn't have Dirk for 99 of 102 total games...
Are you TomTom/Jerkys Kids in disguise?
I said critical, not negativeAre you TomTom/Jerkys Kids in disguise?
"They didn't make the schedule or pick who they wanted to match up against. And in the PO's you only have to be 4gms over .500 to win a le, no matter.
BTW, wasn't that unimpressive Faker team as you call them, the ones that handed the Mavs their worst loss of the season? 22pts, i believe."
good point...they didnt chose to play the mediocre teams they did. to me, that doesn't mean though that post-elimination, we shouldnt do an autopsy on the season and dissect how you got to where you got.
Yeah you only have to be 4 games over .500 to win a le, but no team has ever won a le in NBA history by doing so. Being taken to 7 games by every opponent yet winning the le is an unlikely scenario, given that your likely to see some pretty weak teams in the early rounds, as the Suns did. When you play .500 ball over 20 playoff games (including 2 series against teams of questionable pedigree), this is a pretty good indication that your not quite where you need to be.
if you think that beating Dallas by 21 in a regular season game proves that a team is a force to be reckoned with in the playoffs, than I am afraid you have overrated my Mavs. This team was owned by the Warriors in the regular season as well, but I probably wouldnt call them world-beaters either. A lot of crazy happens in an 82 game season, but not much of it is as crazy as your reasoning for why the Lakers can't be written off as a bad team relative to others in the playoffs.
Pussyface, until you have seen these Suns with Amare, Thomas and a healthy Bell, none of your "mirage" inference holds logic.
I do argue that you play who ya got and beat who ya play, but your not just talking about this series where this would apply. You are talking about the big picture of this past season and next year, so the talk of injury factors in, despite you not wanting it to.
I suggest you, as a known Mavs homer and Suns basher (basically your only purpose here), brush up on some grammar and semantics to know how to critique something without seeming like you're intentionally trying to put something down.
Instead of "Take a step back" might I suggest "A closer look".
Instead of "Was a mirage" might I suggest "obviously overacheived".
Instead of dismissing everything everyone says against you, might I suggest you take their critiques to better yourself as a post.
You're not so high and mighty that you can't learn something.
So, unless you look to incite rather than provide insight, please, take this thread and apply it. You have strong opinions. Those generally evoke strong reactions.
Also, you are the one who generally attacks posters. You've challenged a half-dozen posters here, either by calling them out or by name calling. Everything you criticize of people manifests itself in your own drivle.
Autopsy or woulda, coulda, shoulda?? I thought the Suns would have rolled the Fakers as they had the previous two seasons, but Jackson knew the Suns weakness and did everything he could to exploit it. Ditto w/the Clips.
Maybe it would have been more fair to play the Mavs in the west semi's when the Suns would have had more energy. But don't worry the NBA is soon to fix the "easy" path for next season.
Let me ask you this pussface, you being the bball expert an all... What do you think the Suns are missing to get over your mighty mavs?? What was their downfall this season?
So would you say the Warriors are a bad matchup for the Mavs??
go back and read everything in this thread that you and I have written.
you have called me names in nearly every post; i have responded by and large by taking the high road and attacking the merits of your logic.
every time i see that you have posted in my thread, I hope against hope that you are going to address my basketball points, but inevitably you do not and prefer to keep it personal.
i think the fact that you guys were six wins away from a le this year is not in and of itself proof that this squad was championship caliber....those were 6 more wins that, to me, this particular amare-less group of guys werent ever going to get. so to me, mirage is appropriate. overacheiving also would have been appropriate, but doesn't express what i wanted to get across.
when you go back and look at the thread, notice how I at least pause to consider the things you are saying and refute them. often, my comments begin with things like "i have been thinking about your posts and..." or "although i first thought you were onto something here, i actually think its not valid for _____ reason."
can you honestly say to yourself that you have stopped to consider anything i have said for one moment? i think you pretty much skim my posts, find or misinterpret something to disagree with, and make a post that mixes this minor point with a personal rant against me.
yes. i would absolutely say that we dont match up well with the warriors, even though they are by no means an outstanding team.
autopsy or woulda/coulda/shoulda? Autopsy. this is the time of the year for you guys to be sober and evaluate what went wrong that led to your untimely playoff death. every team that gets eliminated from the playoffs at any stage needs to do this, in my estimation.
GREAT POINT in bringing up that the NBA has taken action to change the playoff format in a way that would have prevented the Suns from having such an easy path this year. Saying the Suns wouldve beat the Mavs in round 2 because they were fresher, of course, is the kinda "woulda coulda shoulda" you accused me of when i talked about doing an autopsy.
What do i think the suns are missing that was their downfall this season? Defense. Call me crazy, but i think you gotta be able to make some stops in the playoffs to win a le. ...im pretty sure it doesnt take a "basketball expert" to tell you that.
Do you recall the post where I listed all those who supported me? Yeah, they did so in reguards to my basketball posts. Not personal attacks.
Just because I choose not to agree with your takes, doesn't mean I fail to read them all or address those I have an opinion on.
It's you who needs to go back and reread. Maybe even take notes because you have a lot of learning to do.
Most here agree with me and that's all that matters. It shows sense has once again overcome personal opinion. You infer that being in the minority proved you a deep thinker. Hardly.
You sought me out several of the threads. You named me your nemesis. That's all you. I'm sure those are the words you've dreamed of hearing all along, so hear they are again: That's all you.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere... The LA teams might not be impressive/outstanding teams, BUT the Suns do not match up well with them - everyone under the sun saw this. Though i did think the Suns matched up fine against the Fakers. The PO's are about matchups, and despite an obvious disadvantage by the Suns to matchup against these teams they still found a way to win the series.
So based on your reasoning above, are the Suns overrated or better than you thought?
you became my e-nemisis by posting personal attacks in my threads with a grating, masturbatory tone.
im glad your happy with having the majority of spurs talkers agree with you and feel that this is "all that matters"...it is a relief to me that you admit to caring only about winning the popularity contest and have no pretension of putting forth cogent counterarguments.
You saying that my pointing out that the majority isnt always right "infers" that i think being outnumbered makes me right is another great example of the wild implications you take away from the rational statements I make.
You are all smoke, mirrors, and wild allegations.
So what did the Mavs do different from last season to this? Seems like the same players are still there.
Ok, now you're starting to make a little sense. Would you say an inside presence in the paint would be a start? Maybe some shot blocking.. rebounding... A body in the paint to stop someone from getting layup after layup?
Now where could the Suns find these types of players; any thoughts?
BTW, before KT went down the Suns, ranked by defensive efficiency, were one of the best defensive teams in the league - #2 i believe.
...i am certain the mavs considered changes...in our particular case, standing pat was the best "change"...i think thats the exception not the norm.
Having a guy in the paint like KT might be good for you guys, but I worry about him clogging the lane offensively/slowing down the offense that is your bread and butter. if amare comes back healthy though, your right the Suns will be a really scary team.
As for that top 2 defense thing, to me that is proof of just how misleading some statistics can be. watching this team indicates that they are simply not good on the defensive end, yes yes? Good points.
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