IN THEIR PRIME, which big man was the best?

[polandprzem]

1. Kareem (the man won on every freakin level

[bobbyjoe]

No, it is ridiculous to prematurely say he's better than Shaq and Dream. Say he's better when he has actually earned it, instead of making rankings and statements based on what he may or may not accomplish in the future. He isn't there yet, and honestly nobody knows if he'll ever get to that level, so it's ridiculous to say he is.

1 or 2 more seasons you think will solidify him next to Shaq? That is also a ridiculous statement. Shaq is on his way to his 6th finals appearance, and possibly his 4th ring. Shaq was an MVP canidate in his 13th season as a pro, and very easily could get another ring in his 14th season as a pro. I in no way see Duncan being as good as Shaq was last year when he's in his 13th season, I also don't see him getting to the finals 3 more times before he's done.

I have to agree with this.

Hakeem was just better on both ends of the court than TD. Offensively, he shot at a higher clip, hit his FT's, and had a turnaround 15 foot jumper which was absolutely unstoppable. While Duncan is often very hard to stop, I just can't see him using and abusing all time Great C's like Robinson, Ewing, O'Neal in his prime shooting 55% in the playoffs dropping 35 a game like Hakeem did in his prime. Hakeem also didnt choke up at the FT line in the clutch.

Shaq was more dominant, especially at his peak. Shaq also won 3 of the 5 head to head playoff matchups against TD. In 2002 his D against Tim in the 4th Q's of game's was a huge factor in LA's winning. Let's also not forget that Shaq's first finals he faced Hakeem, a top 5 C of all time at his absolute peak. In TD's first finals, he faced the #8 seed Knicks. Shaq also lost to MJ in 96 and Malone in 97 and 98, the same Malone who was 2-0 against TD in the playoffs in 98 and 04.

Cir stance must be considered. Does Tim win 3 les if he's drafted by Houston in the 80's and his first finals appearance he has to face the 86 Celtics?

It's no diss to Duncan to be third in that group. Duncan is clearly ahead of Ewing, KG, and DRob but over Hakeem and Shaq is a stretch.

I would say tossup between Hakeem and Shaq, though Hakeem's defensive prowess probably gives him a slight edge.

horry was asked last yr to rank hakeem, shaq, and TD and also ranked them:

1) hakeem
2) shaq
3) TD

which i think is right...

Including DRob in this group is absolutely ludicrous...

[Taco]

Rank these hall of famers (or future HOFs) when they were at their prime.

Shaquille O'Neal #4
David Robinson #2
Patrick Ewing #5
Tim Duncan #3
Hakeem Olajawon #1
Kevin Garnett #6

Duncan and Garnett may still be in their prime but they entered it some years ago.

[DirkAB]

I think I'd put Hakeem at the top. Followed by David. Then Shaq. Tim and KG aren't really big men, so I'm not ranking them, although if I was they'd still follow those 3. We're talking prime right, not entire careers?

You're putting Robinson above Shaq? You're a fool.

[MadDog73]

You're putting Robinson above Shaq? You're a fool.

Robinson in his prime owned Shaq in his prime.

Wasn't until Shaq got Kobe and Robinson got back trouble, that the Spurs had problems with them...

even then, 2003 was a great ing year.

Man, I really screwed up earlier saying that Shaq > Tim in Shaq's prime... I honestly don't believe that. Tim > Shaq, always and forever.

[maddnezz]

David Robinson was as soft as a motherf$%ing grape. You can't rate him above Shaq, there is no comparison. If it wasn't for you guys tanking your season and prayin to the lottery gods for Duncan, you would still be without a championship. And you know it.

Until the finals are over, YOUR STILL WITHOUT A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA JERKHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[maddnezz]

There's nothing "to handle" in that argument. He played through pain? Big deal, every player does at some point. Nobody was scared of playin the Admiral. Look how Malone punked him. If that was my head, Malone would have been in the ER the next game we played. I understand being homers, but damn, you can't argue the facts. Did you ever see anyone try and physically punk Shaq? no, and you won't....ever.

Charles Barkley punching Shaq in head on floor in Houston! Next?

[maddnezz]

I like how you use the term "class" when you are trying to spin it to show that he was a "classy" man on the court while he was getting his brains beat in! LoL!

1) Malone used to punk him
2) Shaq punk'd him many times, in the media and on the court
3) He never even got to the finals until TD arrived
4) He had arguably one of the best physiques of any player in history, was 7'1 yet intimidated nobody. Unless it was a 6'2 guard going to the hole trying to shoot over him.
5) He pet shot was a face up jumpshot, minimal contact. He was scared to bang.

That's a grape to me. Spurs fans you know this, quit trying to defend it!

Sounds a lot like Dirks game minus the 3 pointer don't it???

[Supergirl]

As much as people on this board don't like Shaq, you can't argue with 3 NBA les. He and Duncan have to top the list, just because they've proved it. Duncan gets the edge because he's more athletic and versatile. The last two are both the only two without les, and KG gets the edge for the same reason - more athletic and versatile than Patrick Ewing.

1. Duncan
2. Shaq
3. Hakeem
4. D-Rob
5. KG
6. Patrick Ewing

[DirkAB]

Robinson in his prime owned Shaq in his prime.

Wasn't until Shaq got Kobe and Robinson got back trouble, that the Spurs had problems with them...

even then, 2003 was a great ing year.

Man, I really screwed up earlier saying that Shaq > Tim in Shaq's prime... I honestly don't believe that. Tim > Shaq, always and forever.

You're a straight up HOMER with capital letters. Shaq was the most unguardable player to ever play in the modern era, at one time triple teams couldn't even stop him from scoring. Has anybody else in the modern age commanded such attention on the defensive end, and still been unstoppable? Not even close. David Robinson was a ing role player for his second le, and he wasn't even the best player on his team during his first le, and you are discounting Shaq because of Kobe! Laughable. Did you drink a 12-pack of Duff before that post Homer?

[MadDog73]

You're a straight up HOMER with capital letters. Shaq was the most unguardable player to ever play in the modern era, at one time triple teams couldn't even stop him from scoring. Has anybody else in the modern age commanded such attention on the defensive end, and still been unstoppable? Not even close. David Robinson was a ing role player for his second le, and he wasn't even the best player on his team during his first le, and you are discounting Shaq because of Kobe! Laughable. Did you drink a 12-pack of Duff before that post Homer?

Robinson wasn't in his prime then, asshole.

Read the topic. Then respond.

Shaq didn't win without Kobe either... that's why both Robinson and Shaq are on the bottom below Tim and Hakeem, the two best "big men" on that list. Or do you think Shaq could beat either of those two one-on-one?

Look back at this thread, you'll see I have another list for Final Appearances, and Shaq tops that list. But that doesn't mean he's a better player than Robinson in his prime, where he frequently owned Shaq, (as was owned by Hakeem in the 1994 Finals). I do believe Hakeem owned Shaq in 1995, as well.

In any case, David and Tim stopped Shaq and Kobe twice. 1999, and 2003. Sure, we got our ass kicked in 2001 and 2002, but look back, and you'll see it was Kobe killing the Spurs more often than Shaq.

[Phenomanul]

You're a straight up HOMER with capital letters. Shaq was the most unguardable player to ever play in the modern era, at one time triple teams couldn't even stop him from scoring. Has anybody else in the modern age commanded such attention on the defensive end, and still been unstoppable? Not even close. David Robinson was a ing role player for his second le, and he wasn't even the best player on his team during his first le, and you are discounting Shaq because of Kobe! Laughable. Did you drink a 12-pack of Duff before that post Homer?

You know who killed us in those series against the Lakers in '01 and '02????

It definately wasn't Shaq....

It was Kobe with a capital 'K' for 'Killer of Spurs'..... he played with that at ude as well, once saying... "we need to go down there [SA] and rip their hearts out..."

Shaq didn't even come in a close second... it was Mr. 0.4, Derek F'n Fisher.... I believe he was like 15 of 20 from the 3 point line in one of those series...

Now why was the supposed 'most unstoppable force' rendered a role player in his teams' dismantling of the Spurs???
I'll answer that for you.... cause of the defensive prowess of one David Robinson, a hurt one no less...

At least read up on your history before you come in here blazing pistols left and right... granted you are en led to your opinion... but don't call others fools if they don't agree with it.

[DirkAB]

Robinson wasn't in his prime then, asshole.

Read the topic. Then respond.

Shaq didn't win without Kobe either... that's why both Robinson and Shaq are on the bottom below Tim and Hakeem, the two best "big men" on that list. Or do you think Shaq could beat either of those two one-on-one?

Look back at this thread, you'll see I have another list for Final Appearances, and Shaq tops that list. But that doesn't mean he's a better player than Robinson in his prime, where he frequently owned Shaq, (as was owned by Hakeem in the 1994 Finals). I do believe Hakeem owned Shaq in 1995, as well.

You act like Shaq played against these guys in his prime, he was a young player. And of course I think he could beat them one-on-one in his prime, double teams couldn't stop the guy for christ's sake, neither did triple teams. I wouldn't argue with anybody putting Shaq below Hakeem, but to put him below Robinson or Duncan is asinine.

[MadDog73]

You act like Shaq played against these guys in his prime, he was a young player. And of course I think he could beat them one-on-one in his prime, double teams couldn't stop the guy for christ's sake, neither did triple teams. I wouldn't argue with anybody putting Shaq below Hakeem, but to put him below Robinson or Duncan is asinine.

So, how did the Spurs stop both Kobe and Shaq in 1999 and 2003, huh?

Double teams can't stop Tim now, and certainly couldn't stop Robinson in his Prime.

[fyatuk]

You're a straight up HOMER with capital letters. Shaq was the most unguardable player to ever play in the modern era, at one time triple teams couldn't even stop him from scoring. Has anybody else in the modern age commanded such attention on the defensive end, and still been unstoppable? Not even close. David Robinson was a ing role player for his second le, and he wasn't even the best player on his team during his first le, and you are discounting Shaq because of Kobe! Laughable. Did you drink a 12-pack of Duff before that post Homer?

Shaq's a role player too. His role is to score. Robinson's role was always to be the anchor of the defense first. After Duncan arrive, we got to see Robinson when he could truly focus on defense and rebounding without having to worry about also being the anchor for the offense as well, and he was amazing even then on defense and rebounding. And that was after a serious back injury (and if you've ever had one, you know you are never the same after).

Shaq is offensively the most dominant big man in decades. Dream and Admiral (at least) were both more dominant overall.

And that's provided you discount Shaq getting an insane amount of calls/no-calls throughout his carreer while neither Dream or Admiral got that benefit.

In their primes, Admiral and Dream win out. They were their teams during their primes. They were truly the anchors on both sides of the ball, and were ranked near the top in just about every category.

Shaq tops them offensively in his prime, but he had no-where near their impact on the defensive end.

[MadDog73]

BTW with the players given, my top 3 would go like this:

1. Shaq - during his prime he is the most dominant force in the modern NBA
2. Dream - I believe he's the 2nd most skilled center ever (Kareem #1)
3. Duncan - greatest footwork and fundamentals ever

How can Shaq be "the most dominant force in the modern NBA", and only have 3 les?

Wouldn't he be equal to Michael Jordan or some ?

At the very least, Tim Duncan = Shaq.

Both have 3 Finals MVPs and 3 Championships. Difference is, Tim did it with entirely different sets of players. (the 1999 Spurs vs the 2005 Spurs)

One reason I'm rooting for the Mavs, is I don't want Shaq to get his 4th Ring...

[DirkAB]

You know who killed us in those series against the Lakers in '01 and '02????

It definately wasn't Shaq....

It was Kobe with a capital 'K' for 'Killer of Spurs'..... he played with that at ude as well, once saying... "we need to go down there [SA] and rip their hearts out..."

Shaq didn't even come in a close second... it was Mr. 0.4, Derek F'n Fisher.... I believe he was like 15 of 20 from the 3 point line in one of those series...

Now why was the supposed 'most unstoppable force' rendered a role player in his teams' dismantling of the Spurs???
I'll answer that for you.... cause of the defensive prowess of one David Robinson, a hurt one no less...

At least read up on your history before you come in here blazing pistols left and right... granted you are en led to your opinion... but don't call others fools if they don't agree with it.

Oh, I didn't realize that Kobe was the leader of that Lakers team, sorry I must have been watching a different NBA than you. No hold on, you're wrong because I do remember, Shaq was the most unstoppable player in the league for 3 years in a row, and that was his team. Anybody that claims otherwise is ing moron. I don't give a how the series went agains the Spurs, they were 4-0 and 4-1 series! You act like Kobe bailed them out against you guys, in' ridiculous. And if I remember correctly anyways, he did kill you in the '01 series, and it wasn't like the Spurs shut him down in '02.

[fyatuk]

Oh, I didn't realize that Kobe was the leader of that Lakers team, sorry I must have been watching a different NBA than you. No hold on, you're wrong because I do remember, Shaq was the most unstoppable player in the league for 3 years in a row, and that was his team. Anybody that claims otherwise is ing moron. I don't give a how the series went agains the Spurs, they were 4-0 and 4-1 series! You act like Kobe bailed them out against you guys, in' ridiculous. And if I remember correctly anyways, he did kill you in the '01 series, and it wasn't like the Spurs shut him down in '02.

So you respond to an entire post about how Shaq was the 3rd best player on his team during a particular series, mainly because of Robinson's defense, after you proclaim that no one could stop him, not even with triple teams...

And you don't care? He was just proving your point wrong. Robinson could stop him once he no longer had to worry about carrying the offensive load. Obviously Shaq wasn't "unstoppable" since he was when he played the Spurs. So now we know, you don't care about things that hurt your case. Got it.

And in case you haven't realized it, all you really needed to stop Shaq was someone who was big and strong enough to muscle him out of the paint. Granted, those were few and far between (Antoine Carr did a remarkably good job on him late in his carreer).

Shaqs game was pure muscle and no skill. Only reason he even approached "unstoppable" was because the NBA needed a new superstar.

[DirkAB]

So, how did the Spurs stop both Kobe and Shaq in 1999 and 2003, huh?

Double teams can't stop Tim now, and certainly couldn't stop Robinson in his Prime.

I really don't think that 2003 was Shaq's prime, but he still put up huge numbers. You guys won that series because you shut down their supporting cast. And in 1999, how do you think they held him? They had twin towers close to their prime. Do you think if the tables were turned that Robinson or Duncan could go through twin towers? Besides for going against twin towers he still played pretty impressively.

[MadDog73]

Oh, I didn't realize that Kobe was the leader of that Lakers team, sorry I must have been watching a different NBA than you. No hold on, you're wrong because I do remember, Shaq was the most unstoppable player in the league for 3 years in a row, and that was his team. Anybody that claims otherwise is ing moron. I don't give a how the series went agains the Spurs, they were 4-0 and 4-1 series! You act like Kobe bailed them out against you guys, in' ridiculous. And if I remember correctly anyways, he did kill you in the '01 series, and it wasn't like the Spurs shut him down in '02.

And we swept Kobe and Shaq in 1999. So.... at the very least, Spurs = Lakers. Tim and David = Kobe and Shaq (2 and 2 in playoffs)
Here, let me show you:

1999 Spurs sweep Lakers, Spurs win Championship
2000 Tim injured, Spurs lose to Suns. Lakers win Championship.
2001 Lakers sweep Spurs, Lakers win Championship
2002 Lakers beat Spurs 4-1, Lakers win Championship
2003 Spurs beat Lakers 4-2, Spurs win Championship (David retires)
2004 Lakers beat Spurs 4-2, but Pistons win Championship (no David)
2005 No Lakers. Spurs win Championship.

If anything, this shows how important David was to the Spurs.

We did not beat the Lakers without David. And when David was hurt, we lost to the Lakers.

[MadDog73]

I really don't think that 2003 was Shaq's prime, but he still put up huge numbers. You guys won that series because you shut down their supporting cast. And in 1999, how do you think they held him? They had twin towers close to their prime. Do you think if the tables were turned that Robinson or Duncan could go through twin towers? Besides for going against twin towers he still played pretty impressively.

He got swept...

Wasn't until Robinson's back started acting up, Shaq and Kobe won a few series.

[DirkAB]

He got swept...

Wasn't until Robinson's back started acting up, Shaq and Kobe won a few series.

I didn't realize that we were basing this on what the players may or may have not accomplished if they hadn't been injured, my bad. Tell me more about the amazing things that Robinson would have done if he wouldn't have gotten injured, please? How about Shaq's feet? Tell me more about what could have been. Jerk off.

[DirkAB]

So you respond to an entire post about how Shaq was the 3rd best player on his team during a particular series, mainly because of Robinson's defense, after you proclaim that no one could stop him, not even with triple teams...

Sorry didn't read past that point there. If you really think that Shaq was the third best player on his team that series then you should just leave this conversation, you and anybody else that believes that is just wasting our time. Look as the box scores before you make jackass statements like that.

[MadDog73]

I didn't realize that we were basing this on what the players may or may have not accomplished if they hadn't been injured, my bad. Tell me more about the amazing things that Robinson would have done if he wouldn't have gotten injured, please? How about Shaq's feet? Tell me more about what could have been. Jerk off.

OK, fine. Forget the injury stuff. We still have Spurs with 3 Championships and Lakers with 3.

How that proves that Shaq > Tim or David is beyond me.

[DirkAB]

OK, fine. Forget the injury stuff. We still have Spurs with 3 Championships and Lakers with 3.

How that proves that Shaq > Tim or David is beyond me.

Well, Shaq is now in his 6th finals, and Duncan and Robinson have 5 between the two of them. Shaq's teams are always a contender, and Robinsons were not. Duncan is a fine player that could very well reach Shaq's level as far as a total career, but he hasn't yet. As far as in their primes, Shaq was so dominant that he caused rule changes, him and Wilt are the only guys to do that to my knowlege.