Recent personel decisions have hurt this team?

[ShoogarBear]

As long as people are complaining, you might as well throw the name David Lee out there. Lee is averaging 11 points and 11 rebounds in only 30 minutes a game ... and just keeps getting better and better. The Spurs traded Malik Rose, the pick that became David Lee, another first round pick and $3M for Nazr Mohammed.

If the Spurs had David Lee, they'd easily win the championship. He's a guy who can rebound but is also agile enough to play against smaller players.



P.S.

And for those saying that Pop always has the last call on personel decisions, don't forget about the Raja Bell case. Pop wanted the Spurs to keep Bell. RC wanted the Spurs to keep Derrick Dial.

Yeah, I didn't put Lee in the list because the Spurs didn't actually have the opportunity to pick him.

But basically there's been no young addition of consequence since 2004. If the Spurs had just one of Howard/Haslem/Barbosa/Nocioni/Lee, we'd all feel a lot better now, and if they had any two of them, they'd be as near a lock as you can get.

[ArgSpursFan]

For those still concerned about this argument, here would be how you could make a case for Manu over Carter.

Carter's 24.6 ppg this year come on 19.5 shots, which means he scores 1.26 points/shot. They also come with Carter playing 38.5 min/game, which comes out to .639 points/minute. He also averages 6 rebounds and 4.5 assists per 40 minutes, with a Hollinger PER of 20.46.

Manu averages just 16.3 ppg, but they come on only 11.6 shots, meaning he scores 1.405 points/shot, a higher rate than carter has. He also scores these points in just 27.9 min/game, which comes out to .58 points/minute, while taking many fewer shots. His 40 minute averages of 5 rebounds and 5.2 assists per 40 minutes compare at least equal to Carter's, and his PER of 20.93 is higher. Manu also averages .7 steals/game more than vince, in nearly 11 fewer minutes.

Manu is more effective per minute, and scores more efficiently. Carter scores more, but takes many more shots, though he can play more minutes per game. The point is, there is an argument that can be made for Manu over Carter, and not just based on homer-Spurs logic.

I´m with you,The thing is that many of the folks here don´t see the whole picture.They just wanna see high score,spectacular players,who most of the time don´t win a damn thing in their lifes,tham efective,contributors, team oriented players.And personally I don´t blame them,It happens with all NBA fans,thats why Carter,Iverson,T-Mac, etc always get all the votes for the All-star game,while players like manu just win championships instead.
Where would you reather be at??
The all star game or the NBA Finals,and win it all??

[objective]

Yeah, I didn't put Lee in the list because the Spurs didn't actually have the opportunity to pick him.

They did have the opportunity to draft him, they took Mahinmi right before Lee.

[Que Gee]

The problem is Vince doesn't make those around him better. Manu does. You can have Vince's 28 PPG on 25 shots per game, I'll take the born winner who has helped lead his team to les.

No offense to Manu...But its Tim that makes the difference making people around him better. Not Manu. Vince Carter has never layed with a HOF bigman.

Not saying I don't totally agree with some of your points.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

How about we just draft a player that is the best player or 2nd best on his college team than draft a project that wont play for 5 years? Problem solved. This year we should get our PG in Acie Law that is playing well for Texas A&M on our team than Drtybvtrujy Ftynuykst that is a benchwarmer on a team in Europe. Send this to RC.

[remingtonbo2001]

How about we just draft a player that is the best player or 2nd best on his college team than draft a project that wont play for 5 years? Problem solved. This year we should get our PG in Acie Law that is playing well for Texas A&M on our team than Drtybvtrujy Ftynuykst that is a benchwarmer on a team in Europe. Send this to RC.

As much as I love Acie Law, I don't think the Spurs would bite. Maybe? I believe it is a plus that Law has been able to develope under an incredible system....Pop should move back to GM, let Gillispie coach the Spurs, that is after he is done taking A&M as far as possible. Maybe after Timmy retires?

[AFBlue]

This year we should get our PG in Acie Law that is playing well for Texas A&M on our team than Drtybvtrujy Ftynuykst that is a benchwarmer on a team in Europe. Send this to RC.

Yeah but I heard his potential is through the ROOF!

[rascal]

No offense to Manu...But its Tim that makes the difference making people around him better. Not Manu. Vince Carter has never layed with a HOF bigman.

Not saying I don't totally agree with some of your points.

Exactly. Exchange Manu and Carter and the spurs still win. Duncan is the difference maker. Carter is not good enough to win it all without a dominant big man and neither is manu.

But this thread got side tracked with the manu vs carter comparison.

My main point is the spurs don't pull off any significant trades to improve compared to other teams. I've seen Miami, Detroit, Dallas, Denver and Phoenix get better by pulling off good trades the last few years while the spurs do nothing with trades.


And many good players have been available and exchanged teams during that time and some for very little in return. The spurs could not make one of these trades work out for them in the last few years?

[Mr. Body]

As much as I love Acie Law, I don't think the Spurs would bite. Maybe? I believe it is a plus that Law has been able to develope under an incredible system....Pop should move back to GM, let Gillispie coach the Spurs, that is after he is done taking A&M as far as possible. Maybe after Timmy retires?

It is my unshakeable belief that the Spurs will try to get their starting-quality SF in the first round, preferably trading up with Scola or such to get him, then will try to get their back-up point guard with their 2nd round pick from Milwaukee. Acie Law may not be there at that point, but they'd love to see him there. There are a handful of upperclassman point guards that might be available around there, and the sad-sack teams with better picks in the second round don't really need point guards.

With the last pick, my own personal fantasy is then to bind our late second with Beno Udrih to trade up in the 2nd round. Mail him off with rockets.

[ArgSpursFan]

No offense to Manu...But its Tim that makes the difference making people around him better. Not Manu. Vince Carter has never layed with a HOF bigman.

Not saying I don't totally agree with some of your points.

No doubt TD Makes people around him better,even Tony Parker is a better player with TD in the same team.But I reather play with a Smart player who knows when to go off and scores,and plays strong D all the time,tham a guy who´ll try to get most of the shots and wont care that much on the defensive end.

[zeleni]

worst decision recently?

moving Rasho to Toronto.

[cheguevara]

worst decision recently?

moving Rasho to Toronto.

[ShoogarBear]

They did have the opportunity to draft him, they took Mahinmi right before Lee.

Point taken. However, we still don't know how good Mahinmi will be (though at the rate that Lee is improving, it's increasingly unlikely Ian will be that good). So the comparison I was making was not choosing Mahinmi ahead of Lee, because there's a possibility that may end up being the better choice.

However, the jury is not still out on losing that draft pick in exchange for the Nazr rental.

[Spurodamus]

Peter Holt makes Red McCombs look like a spendthrift.

[2centsworth]

bump. let's add Scola to the list.

[ChumpDumper]

So why start another Scola thread after bumping this one?

[kace]

bump. let's add Scola to the list.

your initial thread about the poor spurs FO was strange considering the 3 les in 99, 03 and 05. since, the spurs have won another le and still you bring the same thing ?

well, i guess i'll be fine with you bringing it every year as long as the spurs wins the le every year.

but if you keep on annoucing a disaster for an enough long time, a day will come where you'll be right.

[Typhoon]

Carter > Manu

Epic lulz

[2centsworth]

So why start another Scola thread after bumping this one?

i started the scola thread before bumping this one. I realized the Scola thread was more related to this one, so I bumped it.

[2centsworth]

your initial thread about the poor spurs FO was strange considering the 3 les in 99, 03 and 05. since, the spurs have won another le and still you bring the same thing ?

well, i guess i'll be fine with you bringing it every year as long as the spurs wins the le every year.

but if you keep on annoucing a disaster for an enough long time, a day will come where you'll be right.

you've got to read the thread a little deeper. Bad FO decisions don't come back to haunt you until later. All the les were due to good FO decisons made before 2002.

[ChumpDumper]

We're tied for the second best record in the west.

We're fine.

[2centsworth]

We're tied for the second best record in the west.

We're fine.

We're fine because we have Tim, Manu, Tony and Bruce. I guess that means RC doesn't have to do a good job anymore. We need a GM that can help reload this team. someone like Jerry West who can get us a Kobe Bryant out of no where and not miss a step.

[ChumpDumper]

We're fine because we have Tim, Manu, Tony and Bruce. I guess that means RC doesn't have to do a good job anymore. We need a GM that can help reload this team. someone like Jerry West who can get us a Kobe Bryant out of no where and not miss a step.

Yeah, Jerry West did such a magnificent job in Memphis.

Great take.

[2centsworth]

Yeah, Jerry West did such a magnificent job in Memphis.

Great take.

He did ok getting them to the playoffs, but he was awesome in LA.

BTW, wouldn't it be nice to have Josh Howard, Nocionni, and Scola on the team right now.

What could have been. I know RC is your friend, but he's been brutal.

[ChumpDumper]

He did ok getting them to the playoffs, but he was awesome in LA.

His main advantage was the team he worked for. Once that advantage was gone, he sucked horribly.

BTW, wouldn't it be nice to have Josh Howard and Scola on the team right now.

So what? It's done. What good is ing doing? Is it bring them back? Are we getting a do-over if we post enough?

What could have been. I know RC is your friend, but he's been brutal.

He's not my friend, but yes, multiple championships are brutal. The horror.

Between West and RC, I'm taking RC.