trade TONY?

[lefty]

Let's trade TP, Manu, Timmy, Bruce and Fabio for Terry, Harris, Dirk, Dampier and Josh

[Mavschick]

The Tony bashers are incredibly lame.

Every coach in the league keys on stopping Tony as one of the main points to stopping at the Spurs, yet y'all think he sucks? Coaches have selected him to the All-Star game for two years in a row.
Keep your day jobs.

Exactly.

Like gee, I wonder whose judgement I should put more trust in? That of a bunch of NBA coaches, or that of some hysterical dweeb? Hmm....NBA coaches....dweeb......wow tough one...

Let's see, who does CLE assign Eric Snow to when they play SA? Parker. Who does DAL assign Devin Harris to when they play SA? Parker. Who does HOU sic Luther Head and Bonzi Wells on when they play SA? Parker. Who does SEA sic Earl Watson on when they play SA? Parker. Who does CHI assign Chris Duhon to when they play SA? Parker. Who do most teams sic their best defensive guard on when they face SA? Parker.

Yet somehow Parker is still shooting a John Stocktonesque-53% from the field and is 4th in the league among PG's in scoring. Sorry, but even a Mavs fan like me can see that Parker is one of the top PG's in the league.

[Kori Ellis]

...
Yet somehow Parker is still shooting a John Stocktonesque-53% from the field and is 4th in the league among PG's in scoring. Sorry, but even as a Mavs fan I can see that Parker is one of the top PG's in the league.

Spurs fans don't realize how good of a percentage that is. They run around wetting their pants over other guys in the league that average in low 40's and then about Tony's efficiency. Tony has his faults like everyone else, but he's 24 and improving every single year.

But some people hate him just to hate. I don't get it.

If you have to hate a Spurs player, some others are more worthy of it.

[SoCalSpursFan]

Trading Tony = Trading Eva.

Are you f*ckin serious?

[Rick Von Braun]

i have always thought TP is overrated.

I think he is slightly overrated, in particular in this board, but he is no slouch and he is a very good basketball player.

and not to bash the Spurs or anything, ive just always thought that aside from his quickness, hes not a very good basketball player.

I rate him as a top 30 player in the league.

hes not a very good shooter

He is not a great shooter, but he has been improving in the last couple of years. His eFG% on jumpshots has been steadily improving aside from his first year.

year -- eFG% on jumpshots
02-03 -- .428
03-04 -- .398
04-05 -- .405
05-06 -- .415
06-07 -- .448

A great part of the improvement is that he has stopped shooting threes altogether, helping his efficiency.

hes not a very good passer

He is capable of passing quite well, what he lacks is court vision... sometimes he doesn't involve teammates because he simply doesn't see how the play evolves.

he is not a good defender

He is a slightly below average defender, but he is an adequate defender for the most part. He is small, so he suffers with big guards, but he is active and fast. He is definitely not a liability on the defensive end.

and isnt good at creating for himself or others

I agree that he is not good at creating for others. In fact, he is mediocre at creating for others. He ranks 30th in pure point rating (PPR) and 41th in assist rate (AST-r). This is not good for a PG no matter how you spin it (the Spurs offense, the teammates not hitting jumpers, etc. etc.) and I concede this point.

However, I completely disagree that he isn't good at creating for himself. The Usage Rate is a metric that measures the ability of a player to create on his own. Tony ranks 6th among all the point guards, and 25th among all players in the league a very good rate!

and hes not the most clutch player,

He doesn't need to be the most clutch player when he has Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili on the team. Moreover, how many teams have two or more players that are really clutch. You could count them with the fingers of one hand.

and wilts under physical play.

He is a small frame PG, he will never be able to compete with stronger PGs, nor be able to fight for a rebound in between trees under the basket. However, after years of being coached by Pop, he is mentally strong.

of course, his speed is a huge asset to the Spurs attack, and without him, they would have little to no fastbreak threat, and he is a good finisher. if the spurs trade him, they would need to have another PG that is very good at creating fastbreak opportunities like him, otherwise they will be in deep .

thats just my opinion.

It is good to get opinions from other teams' fans. I don't think the Spurs would ever get equal trade value on any reasonable trade proposal, so they would certainly be much better off keeping TP.

[lefty]

Trading Tony = Trading Eva.

Are you f*ckin serious?

Well, if it helps to take Eva away, let's do it!!!

[Texas_Ranger]

TP is overrated, but Spurs will not trade him because he's Pop's favourite.

[johnpaulwall21]

TP is overrated, but Spurs will not trade him because he's Pop's favourite.

naw, he gets on parker more than manu and the bench. He dont trade parker cause hes young and still improving.

[MrChug]

Yes.

[sabar]

Trade Tony?
You better get a quality PG in return. The day Beno starts is the beginning of the end.

[Sacramental]

bibby is by no means near his end hes only 28 years old and having a bad season but he'll step it up soon.

[SCdac]

Trading Parker wouldn't be a horrible idea in my opinion, as long as we at least get a young PG in return, like a Monta Ellis or Raymond Felton kind of PG. Somebody with just as much upside as Parker (in their early 20's, etc), and someone we could plug into the starting lineup... Maurice Williams, Luke Ridnour, Delonte West, etc, etc. Lots of servicable PG's out there. None are "All-Stars" like Parker, but could likely mesh with the Spurs.

I don't know, I've never thought of our PG position to be an immensely integral part of a championship. At least not compared to the big man. Just has to be someone who can handle pressure, get more assists than TO's, and hit fairly big shots. Avery Johnson or Speedy Claxton; it doesn't have to be an All-Star... I look back and see the Heat topple the Mavericks with Jason Williams and an ancient Gary Payton running the point! Not exactly top 10 point guards...

If the Spurs are looking to improve through a trade (ie. getting back a package of young talent: PG + SF/PF, or, PG + C), Parker may be the best piece to work with. Plenty of teams would want Parker, which is exactly why the struggling Spurs should sell him as high as possible, while they still can. I'm sort of biased though - I'm really high on Ginobili and value him just as much as Parker (at least for the Spurs). Versitality is big nowadays, and Ginobili's skills and qualities are definitely varied... Don't get me wrong, Parker is definitely a steal, and I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking he's untouchable. But, sometimes you have to give some to get some, and for me, that would be our score-first-guard, Parker. I imagine for others, that'd be the aging Ginobili... but that's if we're talking trading one of the big 3 in the first place. Which I wouldn't say is necessary just yet.

[4lifecowboy]

Trading Parker wouldn't be a horrible idea in my opinion, as long as we at least get a young PG in return, like a Monta Ellis or Raymond Felton kind of PG. Somebody with just as much upside as Parker (in their early 20's, etc), and someone we could plug into the starting lineup... Maurice Williams, Luke Ridnour, Delonte West, etc, etc. Lots of servicable PG's out there. None are "All-Stars" like Parker, but could likely mesh with the Spurs.

I don't know, I've never thought of our PG position to be an immensely integral part of a championship. At least not compared to the big man. Just has to be someone who can handle pressure, get more assists than TO's, and hit fairly big shots. Avery Johnson or Speedy Claxton; it doesn't have to be an All-Star... I look back and see the Heat topple the Mavericks with Jason Williams and an ancient Gary Payton running the point! Not exactly top 10 point guards...

If the Spurs are looking to improve through a trade (ie. getting back a package of young talent: PG + SF/PF, or, PG + C), Parker may be the best piece to work with. Plenty of teams would want Parker, which is exactly why the struggling Spurs should sell him as high as possible, while they still can. I'm sort of biased though - I'm really high on Ginobili and value him just as much as Parker (at least for the Spurs). Versitality is big nowadays, and Ginobili's skills and qualities are definitely varied... Don't get me wrong, Parker is definitely a steal, and I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking he's untouchable. But, sometimes you have to give some to get some, and for me, that would be our score-first-guard, Parker. I imagine for others, that'd be the aging Ginobili... but that's if we're talking trading one of the big 3 in the first place. Which I wouldn't say is necessary just yet.

Totally agree with you, most unbiased view in the thread. Parker is good but he is not the total fit for this team, his natural talent carries him a long way. If we could get a quality PG and SF or draft pick(preferably a non playoff contender) I would include Tony in a package. And of the big three he is the most touchable, Timmy is the franchise, and Manu is the spark plug, and he happens to be latino.

[dg7md]

Trading TP would be the dumbest move of the entire century. He's THE best point guard in the NBA. Nash is the best "pure", but Parker is just so good at scoring and being proficient.

[WalterBenitez]

I won´t even take seriously any trade talk TP, but people when the kid sucks ...SUCKS ... 20 shots for 19 points ... please!

[fred33]

Tony Was Good Yesterday Tim Duncan Sucked

[JPB]

I'll never understand how people can't see what TP brings to his team.
The TP bashing had stopped since a fex weeks and then after a loss where he tried to make things happen here we go again...

Did you see the game last night ?
Watch it again and see how :

-First half he created good open shoots for BB, BB2 and MF.
- 3rd quarter when nobody could score, he took fire and keep the game tied.
- Then he left and when he returned, it was a 10 points-game and he tried to provocate things and draw fouls. Besides him and Tim, I can't remember any spur on the FT line.

There are many other spurs to call on this game other than TP who tried hard.

He was not always succesfull but had the rest of the team played decently, this could have been a close game.


Sure, trade TP to a team where he can play with guys who can shoot, run with him and propose him solutions. He'll have some fun.

His assists number would significantly grow up. If you give the ball to player who create his shoot without tking more than one step, it's a

[JPB]

n assist in NBA.

I'd be curious to know the +/- on this game fot TP.

[ShoogarBear]

Nash kills parker everytime.......

Now you've just exposed your degree of basketball ignorance.

[mavsfan1000]

Parker is clearly the second best player on this team. Manu is a distant 3rd. The rest of the team sucks though after Manu. Maybe a Steve Nash would help the rest of the players more but I doubt he is available. Kidd is not the player he once was so I don't see that as an improvement over Parker. San Antonio needs to get better at other position. (SF, C, Backup PG, SG not named Manu, Backup SF, Backup PF, and Backup Center) A lot of positions that need to be addressed so you have to look pass Parker, Manu, and Duncan on this.

[Dartherus]

Parker is clearly the second best player on this team. Manu is a distant 3rd. The rest of the team sucks though after Manu. Maybe a Steve Nash would help the rest of the players more but I doubt he is available. Kidd is not the player he once was so I don't see that as an improvement over Parker. San Antonio needs to get better at other position. (SF, C, Backup PG, SG not named Manu, Backup SF, Backup PF, and Backup Center) A lot of positions that need to be addressed so you have to look pass Parker, Manu, and Duncan on this.

Where do you get this certainity?

Did you realize that IN THE LAST RING GOTTEN BY SPURS...the one who was perhaps THE BEST (fighting inch to inch with Tim for the NBA PLAYOFFS AND FINALS MVP) was MANU AND NOT TONY?

Do you realize that, extra-stats, the difference between BASKETBALL IQ between Manu and Tony would be like comparing Einstein's IQ with yours?

Do you realize that Baskebtall IQ is useful for final quarters and playoffs, where the Deffense is harder ?

Do you realize that when the D is soft (crap games of regular season, and minutes before the final quarter), the one with better physical shape is the one who can score more, and that with weak D, Basketball IQ is less useful, cause any player with low IQ and great physical gifts can also score?

Even checking stats...do you realize that Manu....despite not being in his best shape.... THIS SEASON have more efficiency per minutes and points per minute than Tony?

How come a one-dimensional player like Tony, can be 'better' than a so unpredictable player in offense and so better defender, like Manu, can you explain? based just in pure scoring in crap games of regular season?

FWIW, I don't cpnsider Parker a bad player at all, but he's too one-dimensional and lacks court vision and basketball IQ, these are severe shortcoming when fighting in IMPORTANT GAMES OR MINUTES...and that's when Manu's superior Basketball IQ and variety of skills will always be a superior contribution to the Spurs to what Tony can bring.

[stewart]

MANU PROOVED HIS BIG BIG BIG BASKETball IQ when he fouled dirk on that last possession

[bdictjames]

Let Tony score and Duncan rebound. Let Manu create the plays.

[stretch]

What's ironic is that he is a good shooter, he is a good passer, he is a good defender, he is good at creating shots for himself and others, and he can hit clutch shots.

hmm. suit yourself, homer.

[lefty]

He's THE best point guard in the NBA