HawksTalk Thread

[AFBlue]

I dont see it. the kid had no jump shot, not very many back to the basket moves, and cant back anyone down because of his lack of strength. I think his best case scenario is Varejao, I dont think he will ever affect a game offensively except for put backs and hustle points. I dont think he is very good personally.

Actually, he has a jumpshot it's just ugly. You're right about his low-post moves and slight frame, but that's pointing out his obvious offensive problems...he's has much more upside than Varajao on the defense and rebounding. Maybe he's Varajao 2.0 on offense, but he's Varajao times 10 on D.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one as well.

[AFBlue]

At some point, they are going to have to stop taking versatile swingmen/combo forwards and get betteer players at the power positions. Pachulia should be a back-up center, Lorenzen Wright should be insurance, and Shelden Williams should not have been a lottery pick. They need better quality at the 4/5. Corey Brewer is not only redundant, but unnecessary.

Actually, Pachulia is good enough to be the starting PF and Shelden should be the backup. Lorenzen shouldn't have a job. The problem is personnel.

Because the Hawks want to run an up-tempo style, and because they want to get both Marvin Williams and Josh Smith playing time, they start Marvin at the 4. Sadly, I think this hurts his development because he's much more of a 3. That means Pachulia is forced to play the 5 and Shelden gets squeezed for minutes.

Obviously the solution is to trade one (or two) of the swing guys for a legitimate PF/C, but as I'll keep reiterating....Billy Knight is arguably the worst GM in all of sports and would never admit to creating a greatly talented, but horribly flawed team. I don't think any of the three (Childress, Smith, or M. Williams) are going to be moved in the near future.

Overall though, I completely agree with your sentiment.

[AFBlue]

I think for a young team with their talent level, their best chance at quick success is to adopt a run-n-gun Phoenix Suns type of small ball offense.

If they get Conley and Brewer, they can run a lineup of Conley, Johnson, Brewer, Smith, and Marvin Williams out there and absolutely run people to death. Plus, Josh Smith and Corey Brewer are going to be defensive beasts, so they can still play defese.

Also, I think you underrate Zaza and Shelden...I think they both are gonna come up big next year. Shelden may not be worthy of a lottery pick but he's going to be a very solid player for them.

Mono, you're forgetting about getting minutes to Josh Childress, who is really more of a 3 but will get most of his minutes at the 2.

The other thing I'll say is that it's already a stretch for Marvin to be playing most of his minutes at the 4, it would be an incredible stretch to play him at the 5.

The only way it's possible to do what you suggest is to hire Nellie away from Golden State.

On your second assertion, I agree that both Pachulia and Shelden could play big roles as both performed well down the stretch. I think Shelden gets an unfair shake because he got picked above his supposed value and had the nagging shoulder injury that really limited his production....both can be big for them.

I disagree with your Brewer assessment though...no way he gets added to the fray without trades going down. Wait, it's Billy Knight so I'll revise....no way the Hawks are successful and manage to get each player the court time they deserve if they take Brewer and don't make a trade(s).

[AFBlue]

Hey Tony, I see that Royal is going to be a free agent. I saw him play a lot at Texas and remember him having steller d, what would you think of him as a backup on the Spurs? Also, the more I think about it, the more I think the Hawks have to take Horford

Ivey plays with good defensive intensity, but as crazy as it sounds he makes Jacque Vaughn look like Kobe Bryant on offense. He's much bigger than Vaughn, which would help against the Deron Williams' of the world, but I'm not sure about his quickness.

I appreciated him in Atlanta, but I have to be honest...he started at one point for the Hawks during the regular season, but he would have a tough time seeing the court on the Spurs' summer league team, let alone time on the active roster or on court. Sorry to kill that idea....

[mardigan]

Ivey plays with good defensive intensity, but as crazy as it sounds he makes Jacque Vaughn look like Kobe Bryant on offense. He's much bigger than Vaughn, which would help against the Deron Williams' of the world, but I'm not sure about his quickness.

I appreciated him in Atlanta, but I have to be honest...he started at one point for the Hawks during the regular season, but he would have a tough time seeing the court on the Spurs' summer league team, let alone time on the active roster or on court. Sorry to kill that idea....

Its cool I was just wondering, seem to remember him sucking at offense at UT. Just trying to figure out who the SPurs can look at in free agency at the point spot.

[AFBlue]

On who the Hawks take, it's Billy Knight so you never know. Once he falls in love with a player, regardless of need or relative value, he's commited to taking that person. He fell in love with Marvin two years ago, despite the clear need for a PG, and he fell in love with Shelden last year, despite clearly better players still being on the draft board (Roy, Foye, and Gay).

If he falls in love with Conley Jr., he'll take him at three. If he falls in love with Noah, he'll take him at three....trust me.

[JamStone]

Hawks fans have to hope that it's only Conley or Noah he might fall in love with, because either of those two would be good draft picks, even if they are taken higher than their value. Hawks fans should worry more if he falls in love with another swing player/combo forward, or someone entirely out of the blue.

[mardigan]

Hawks fans have to hope that it's only Conley or Noah he might fall in love with, because either of those two would be good draft picks, even if they are taken higher than their value. Hawks fans should worry more if he falls in love with another swing player/combo forward, or someone entirely out of the blue.

I would much rather have Horford than Noah

[AFBlue]

I would much rather have Horford than Noah

If we're judging based on talent, I would absolutely rather have Horford than Noah. He has a much more fluid game and has shown the ability to improve...especially on the offensive end. The problem is his size (6'9, 235) and position....he's exclusively a 4.

Since the Hawks are intent on playing both Marvin Williams and Josh Smith, I think that leaves little time for another "4" to get court time. They need someone who can shift to the 5, and Noah has the height/length to do just that.

Horford = Better Talent

Noah = Better Fit

When I made my initial assessment I mentioned Horford because he's an upgrade over Shelden, and maybe he could be shifted to the 5, but I'm just not sure Horford is the right fit....again, that doesn't mean Billy won't fall in love with him.

[AFBlue]

A great article in the AJC, for some of you enthusiasts. Again, I hope the Hawks make some good decisions this June, but history prevents me from being too optomistic.

Give me Conley and Noah and all will be cool, but the chances that it's Brewer and Green are just as likely.

http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/sha...have_over.html

Hawks have overwhelming possibilities
By Jeff Schultz | Wednesday, May 23, 2007, 12:09 AM

The Atlanta Journal-Cons ution

There is probably something wrong with a league’s draft system when the fortunes of a franchise can turn on a bunch of pingpong balls.

Then again, if you’re the Hawks, maybe you prefer luck to the science of player selection because, as we have seen, this franchise’s science has blown up way too many laboratories.

In theory, through sheer luck, the NBA’s punch-line franchise took a step toward respectability Tuesday night. The Hawks fell into the third pick in the draft lottery. It means they get to keep a selection that had been gift-wrapped for the Phoenix Suns in the Joe Johnson trade (which suddenly looks pretty good). They also will get, as anticipated, the 11th overall pick from Indiana.

Two of the top 11 picks.

Celebrate the potential.

Or cover your eyes.

The first pick would have been a slam dunk: Greg Oden.

The second pick would have been even easier: Kevin Durant.

The third pick is a decision.

Do you want a decision?

These are the Hawks. This is Billy Knight. Visionaries, they haven’t been.

Two of the top 11 picks.

Great. I think.

This is like giving a mechanic $50,000 to build a car. Either you end up with a really nice car, or the engine stalls when you turn on the wiper blades. Kind of depends on the mechanic, and the blueprint, and the vision.

The Hawks can take Brandan Wright. Love the talent but disappeared in the tournament for North Carolina. They can take Al Horford. Really good player, but so good that he’s the third overall pick? They can take Mike Conley: Unbelievably quick, and a point guard, but was that overachievement in the tournament or actual career foreshadowing?

Two of the top 11 picks.

Two more decisions.

Pepto, anyone?

Why couldn’t it have been easy? Orlando fell into Shaquille O’Neal. San Antonio fell into David Robinson and Tim Duncan. Cleveland fell into LeBron James.

The Hawks just fall.

Portland won the lottery. The Trail Blazers were represented Tuesday by Brandon Roy. Hawks fans couldn’t miss the irony. Last year, Knight selected Shelden Williams with the fifth overall selection. Roy went to the Blazers with the next pick. He just won Rookie of the Year.

Williams was below average. He just got engaged to Candace Parker. Soon, he may not even be the best player in his house.

We all believed Knight was wrong when he drafted Boris Diaw in 2003. Turns out he was right about the player but wrong about the uniform. Diaw has been a jewel for Phoenix. Knight also drafted Josh Childress over Luol Deng in 2004, and Marvin Williams over two impact point guards, Deron Williams and Chris Paul, in 2005.

There was only a 38 percent chance of the Hawks landing in the top three, a 13 percent chance of picking third. So something broke right. Just not right enough.

As he was about to board a flight for New Jersey on Tuesday, Dominique Wilkins said he was wearing his lucky tie and commented: “The lottery can change the course of a franchise. We’re overdue for some luck.”

No. What they’re overdue for is some intelligence.

This hasn’t been a run of brilliance. The Hawks have gone eight seasons without making the playoffs. They are 97-231 over the past four years, which means Knight needs a 134-game winning streak to pull even for his tenure. (Yes, that would be record.)

In fairness to Knight (why not?), he merely is upholding a franchise standard. Drafts usually blow up with this team. In 1975, the Hawks had the first and third overall selections. They took David Thompson and Marvin Webster. Both opted for the ABA.

In 14 drafts from 1985 to 1998 — between Kevin Willis and Jason Terry — the Hawks’ first round went like this: Jon Koncak, Billy Thompson (traded for Ken Barlow), Dallas Comegys, no pick, Roy Marble, Rumeal Robinson, Stacey Augmon, Adam Keefe, Doug Edwards, no pick, Alan Henderson, Priest Lauderdale, Ed Gray and Roshown McLeod.

I realize it’s a lot easier to draft in hindsight. But should two “no picks” look so good over that span?

And now this: two of the top 11 picks.

Think of the possibilities.

Maybe not.

[lordswing]

Too bad Hibbert decided to stay, that would've made the Hawks decision a little easier I think

[Purple & Gold]

I'll be rooting for the Hawks to make the playoffs. So you can give the Suns and their whiny fans one more thing to cry about.

[AFBlue]

In light of the Oden request to play with Ohio St. and AAU teammate, Conley Jr., what do you think fo this trade....proposed in another thread.

I brought this up in another thread regarding Oden's wish to play with his longtime teammate Mike Conley Jr. Oddly enough, I think it's the Hawks that could facilitate this trade. Here's how...

Atlanta gives up the #3 pick, which the Blazers would use to select Conley Jr., plus Josh Childress (or Josh Smith if the Blazers don't budge), and a mid-salary guy in Speedy Claxton.

In return, Atlanta gets Zach Randolph to play F/C and provide the low-post scoring threat they DESPERATELY need. They should also get back a PG prospect in order to balance out the roster....say Jarret Jack, who played at local Georgia Tech.

I believe since Atlanta is under the salary cap it works....what do you think?

[monosylab1k]

I've heard that the Hawks will not be taking Conley at #3, and instead will do one of two things -

1. Trade down a few spots and take Conley there.
2. Take Al Horford with the #3 pick and then try to make a trade using their #11 pick and whatever trade bait they have in order to move up wherever they need to go in the 4-10 range and grab Conley there.

Does anyone have an article that talks about this? I heard it on the radio but I'm gonna start searching for some other sort of confirmation on this.

As long as they get Conley, I'm happy. If they end up with Horford and no Conley, I'm gonna be PISSED.

[lordswing]

I know this is unorthodox, but I'd love for the Hawks to somehow get Conley and Crittenton, fully shoring up their PG position if in fact one of them doesn't do so well. This could be done in a variety of ways, grabbing both PGs very highly, and trading both picks down in an effort to get more value out of them.

[ploto]

Childress might be the guy that goes when the Hawks finally decide to make a move, and my guess is that they'd take on a proven point guard or center in return, of which the Lakers have neither.

Rumor in Toronto is their keen interest in Jose Calderon and that they may be willing to give up Childress and a first round pick for him. They tried to trade for Jose before the trade deadline but Raptors had no interest then.

[monosylab1k]

Now it looks like they're wanting Acie Law....which is just fine with me. I'd rather have Conley, but Law has all the makings of a very nice shoot-first PG who is also a true PG, not a tweener. Lots of comparisons to Sam Cassell. As long as they dont end up with Crittendon I'll be happy.

[AFBlue]

Rumor in Toronto is their keen interest in Jose Calderon and that they may be willing to give up Childress and a first round pick for him. They tried to trade for Jose before the trade deadline but Raptors had no interest then.

Childress AND the #11 pick seems a bit much for Calderon, though I think he's certainly better than anything on the current Hawks roster.

I also hear that the Raps have shifted focus to Mikael Pietrus, and given the Warriors' need for a legitimate pass-first PG, I would think Calderon is a likely option.

[AFBlue]

Now it looks like they're wanting Acie Law....which is just fine with me. I'd rather have Conley, but Law has all the makings of a very nice shoot-first PG who is also a true PG, not a tweener. Lots of comparisons to Sam Cassell. As long as they dont end up with Crittendon I'll be happy.

Law is a much more NBA-ready prospect, which is what the Hawks need at this point. I think Law could be a better playmaker and leader than Jarret Jack, whom they were said to be targeting by trading away the #11 pick.

Law at #11 is a good value and hopefully a good sign, because they're taking an intangible-heavy basketball player over a raw athlete with upside. But I still think the Hawks need a distributor versus a scorer...

Now if they can just trade for Zach Randolph...#3 pick and Childress, and Clax should do it....

[AFBlue]

Just wanted to bring this thread to the forefront since there are so many rumors about the Hawks declining a deal that would've brought Amare Stoudamire (a.k.a. LEGITIMACY) to the Hawks franchise.

And an additional report that says the Ownership group is putting the pressure on to draft Yi ahead of Horford for business reasons....dear God, could it get any worse?

[monosylab1k]

Just wanted to bring this thread to the forefront since there are so many rumors about the Hawks declining a deal that would've brought Amare Stoudamire (a.k.a. LEGITIMACY) to the Hawks franchise.

And an additional report that says the Ownership group is putting the pressure on to draft Yi ahead of Horford for business reasons....dear God, could it get any worse?

i knew it. i in KNEW IT!

i can live without the Amare trade only because I think Horford could be just as dominating as Amare, plus we can take Acie Law at 11. But to pass on Horford???!?!?!?!?!

DAMMIT!!!!

there is no possible way to screw up this draft, but the Hawks are going to find a way to do it.....

[kingsfan]

They were raving about Yi last night and it's a city they'll let him play in. I've got a feeling that's what they're going to do. I'd take Law but I think they'll get Crittenton. They love the local kids and it would shut people up about their PG situation.
Hawks need new GM and owners if they stand a chance of getting to be good, no matter what talent they have.

[monosylab1k]

They were raving about Yi last night and it's a city they'll let him play in. I've got a feeling that's what they're going to do. I'd take Law but I think they'll get Crittenton. They love the local kids and it would shut people up about their PG situation.
Hawks need new GM and owners if they stand a chance of getting to be good, no matter what talent they have.

We have Horford and Law right in our hand and instead we take the Chinaman and ing Crittenton?????? son of a ....

[freedom&justice]

Just wanted to bring this thread to the forefront since there are so many rumors about the Hawks declining a deal that would've brought Amare Stoudamire (a.k.a. LEGITIMACY) to the Hawks franchise.

And an additional report that says the Ownership group is putting the pressure on to draft Yi ahead of Horford for business reasons....dear God, could it get any worse?

Billy Knight sucks, and just as he's about to make maybe the first good decision in this draft, Hawks' ownership decides to step in with their BS. Those owners need to get out of the way of basketball decisions or just sell the franchise. If you're gonna interfere with personnel decisions for stupid financial motivation, you're not fit to own a sports franchise.

[BacktoBasics]

Anything is better than Noah. This is the most highly overrated player in the draft. This dude will mirrow Bo Outlaw. Not that its a bad thing but he's not top 10 talent.

Conley would be a good pick or Horford.