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Jerry West is already in the HOF
If he win 8 rings will he be HoF material?
9?
10?
Jerry West is already in the HOF
Clutch shooters are only clutch when they have a chance to be. Steve Kerr and Robert Horry have had numerous opportunities to be clutch thanks to teammates named Hakeem Olajuwon, Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, and Tim Duncan.
Robert Horry is the King of the Role Players, without question. If we find a way to honor role players without putting them in the same pool with real HOFers, then I'm okay with it. Putting Robert Horry next to Larry Bird and Magic Johnson is totally ridiculous, even if he has one ring less than they have together. Horry made a few nice plays when Hakeem, Shaq, and Tim - real Hall of Famers - won those seven rings.
Yet clutch role players are important. I mean, it's great that a player can score 20 a night in Memphis but can they perform on the game's biggest stage?
Best MB take I have seen in a while...
Webber and Sars both will probably reach some HOF level benchmarks and exceed the marks of a lot of players already in. I wouldn't take either of them over Horry if I was truly going after a championship.
Another thought, coaches can make the Hall. So can referees, teams, and "contributors".
And women.
The Hall is bas ized as it is. Pull your thumbs out of your asses.
Do you guys think that if Robert Horry doesn't make the Hall of Fame, he'll be forgotten?
HOFers produce every night. In November, in January, in June.
HOFers are the first players opposing coaches plan around. No coach ever told his team, "Let Hakeem/Shaq/Tim get his. Just don't let Robert Horry beat us." Sure, they would rather not see Robert Horry catch it at the arc with an uncontested look, but there is a reason he gets so many uncontested looks out there in big games. And that reason is the double teams created by Horry's HOF teammates.
BTW Marcus Bryant, you're comparing apples and oranges when you compare an NBA player to a coach, a contributor, or a female player. If Robert Horry gets into the HOF, it will because the voters thought he was as good as other NBA players in the Hall, not because he was a better player than Nancy Lieberman or Juliana Semanova.
There's no need to make it worse. , I'm the career leader in s taken at AT&T Center due to the Lions Club nachos at Spurs games. In five years I should be lining up for my bust in Springfield. When you start rewarding mediocrity and parade it as excellence, the Hall of Fame loses its meaning. FWD said it best and I really can't add anything more to that wonderful argument. Cue the 7 rings angle...
Make a new category. "Contributors"? Obviously the Hall is about more than just who can score a load of points.
RE: Kerr
If the Basketball HOF worked like the MLB HOF...Kerr probably would get into the Hall.
There are guys in the MLB Hall for doing nothing more than hitting singles, stealing a lot of bases or essentially hitting WS winning home runs. IF you are a career leader in any positive statistical MLB category...you have a good shot of making the MLB HOF, Kerr being the best 3 PT PCT shooter in NBA history would be the equivalent of an MLB player leading in some category like most doubles or something ...and they are heavily into statistical benchmarks as a criteria for induction. And no...I don't think Kerr belongs in the HOF.
And thinking about it...there have been times during Horry's le runs where Horry was the best player on the court...the best example I can think of was I believe game 3 against the Sixers where Kobe and Shaq were in the midle of choking and Horry took over the final 5 minutes of that game and sealed the win. Not just hitting clutch shots, but he also got steals, boards, blocks, made some key passes and scored the final 5-7 points in the game.
Again...there is no trend you can apply to Horry, because there hasn't been another player like Horry. No supporting character in NBA history has knocked downas many pivotal game winning shots during le runs as Horry...and neither have most of the Superstars already enshrined, as evidenced by their rings.
Last edited by whottt; 06-28-2007 at 05:48 PM.
Horry makes the Hall when Manny Mota makes it to Cooperstown.
FWDT...I applaud your attempts to utlilize some of the work being done by the fine folks over at basketball reference...however since basketball metrics are still in the embryonic stage, I am not sure how much weight to apply to their HOF monitor since they still retooling it on an annual basis.
Just out of curiosity...how much weight are they giving for an NBA championship now in their forumula?
A few years ago, playing on NBA championship team carried the the third most weight right, after MVP and Finals MVP in terms of block points...I suspect they've changed that now. Call it a hunch.
In any case...I'm happy to know you will give such weight to their metrics...
Next time I see David Robinson ranked out of the top 5....that's top 5 Players in NBA history, let alone Centers...I'll know who to seek out to get my back...and I know I can count on you based on your willingness to use some of their metrics in this thread.
That metric has David Robinson ranked 34th All-Time. I wouldn't disagree with that conclusion.Next time I see David Robinson ranked out of the top 5....that's top 5 Players in NBA history, let alone Centers...I'll know who to seek out to get my back...and I know I can count on you based on your willingness to use some of their metrics in this thread.
I'm talking win shares...wins, winning PCT. You know...MLB stuff you used on me the last time we argued Palmeiro.
And the fact that Drob is ranked 34th on their monitor definitely means they have retooled it...he was like 9th(or maybe it was 19th) last time I looked...and the only guys that have passed him since then are Shaq and Duncan.
I didn't use win shares and that stuff in this argument and I'm certain that I didn't rely on those sorts of metrics in arguing that Canseco's allegations about Palmeiro seemed to be corroborated by his numbers. My analysis on Palmeiro was confined to breaking down seasonal averages and per-at-bat numbers to see if there were indications of a curious power surge. I don't ever rely on win shares, because frankly, I'm not even really sure what it measures.
In any event, if you want to rely on Win Shares as some sort of greatness indicator, I'm certain that Robert Horry still falls well short of Hall-worthiness by that measure as well.
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