Oh, the hand wringing, the whaling and wrongness of it all,
commuting part of a sentence for someone convicted of a crime
for a non-crime.
Yet, didn't we have a big debate over granting amnesty to about
12-20 million law breakers, who also more than like compounded
their crime by stealing others iden y. But, but, but they only
wanted a better life. And all championed by the same bunch
who are ing now. Give me a break.
That strikes me as a relatively flimsy excuse. There's a possibility that just about any conviction will be overturned on appeal, making the entire prosecution moot. I don't know that the possibility that there will be a reversal on appeal is a justification for commuting the sentences of political allies.
At that, I'm not sure that it doesn't jeopardize the separation of powers doctrine for the executive to assume that he knows what the judiciary might do in a particular case.
I don't recall that being the President's reason for the commutation.
I never said it was. I was simply responding to your suggestion that it might justify the President's decision.
Sounds like the White House needs a janitor to clean the place up... in return, I want my squirrel army back.
Olbermann bats a 10-10....Wow!
Keith Olbermann - Special Comment: Bush, Cheney Should Resign
Hey dan, a question, has it ever been proven that
Ms. Wilson was actually a "secret agent man"? Or
just a glorified clerk at CIA and everyone knew who
she worked for.
So you read that as a justification of the President's decision? Because I intended it as a illustration of how ridiculous is the current position of those who opposed the president's decision to commute instead of pardon.I never said it was. I was simply responding to your suggestion that it might justify the President's decision.
The president didn't use this as justification for his decision but, I merely pointed out that if his reasons are as nefarious as some would have us believe then, should Libby be exonerated, he should be given credit for being more forward-thinking than those who would criticize him.
After all, considering all the crap he's taking on this decision, I think he'd of been better off just pardoning Libby if that is going to be the eventual outcome. Because, there's absolutely nothing he could have done to satisfy his critics in this case. Even if he'd let Libby go to jail -- only to be exonerated -- the left would have ridiculed him for NOT taking action. And, finally, if he had allowed Libby to go to jail and the appeal was lost, he would have been criticized for letting Libby take the fall for Cheney...
There's no way for the president to win this argument so, I presume he just did what he thought was right. Plus, it's the outcome that stands the biggest chance of being the appropriate thing -- should, in fact, Libby be exonerated.
Hope you followed that.
You almost can't help but grudgingly admire the absolute and total shamelessness of Billary, the former and possibly future first ladies. Given Ms. Rodham's lesser half's troubled history with the pardon power, you might have expected it to be an awkward moment for her when President Bush spared Scooter Libby prison time in the Valerie Plame non-crime. How would she finesse this one?
Well, as it turns out, being completely brazen about it. The Associated Press reports from Keokuk, Iowa, that Mrs. Clinton "drew a distinction" between the Libby commutation--"which she has harshly criticized--and her husband's 140 pardons in his closing hours in office":
Earlier, Ms. Rodham issued a statement saying, "This commutation sends the clear signal that in this Administration, cronyism and ideology trump competence and justice."
Really now? So, let's go back and review some of Mr. Clinton's pardons. The one everyone remembers is that of Marc Rich, the fugitive tax evader who renounced his citizenship and whose wife was a big Clinton donor.
Courtesy of CNN, here's a contemporaneous list of other 11th-hour pardons:
Among the beneficiaries of Mr. Clinton's pardons, then, were his own brother, a central figure in the Whitewater scandal, and two members of his own cabinet, one of whom, unlike Libby, actually faced charges of mishandling national secrets. Yet Mrs. Clinton can keep a straight face while throwing around charges of "cronyism"? This borders on sociopathy.
Those of us who try to compare the Libby commutation to Clinton's "pardongate" are quickly berated for dragging ancient history into the fray while also claiming they, too, were outraged by Clinton's abuse of the pardon power (yeah, right).
But, maybe there is a relevant reason to look at "pardongate" in the context of current politics. Because, after all Slick Willy's better half is running for the same office. So, maybe, what she has to say on the Libby commutation can inform us about how she would exercise such power should she be elected President.
^^^ Yoni, Yoni, you keep on confusing things by quoting
facts. Why do you do that. It only makes them mad and
confrontational. You know all the pardons Clinton made was
because of Bush or Karl Rove or was it Cheney?
I cant r e c a l l or have no memory of it. Well it worked for
Billary.
LOL...
yep, we have to stop using facts. Facts are to liberals like kryptonite is to superman!
How to alienate half your Base 101:
LinkyWASHINGTON (CNN) – A majority of Americans and nearly half of all Republicans disapprove of President Bush’s commutation of Lewis “Scooter” Libby’s 30-month prison sentence, according to a new American Research Group poll out Friday.
Fully 64 percent of all Americans and 69 percent of voters said they disapproved of the commutation in the new poll. Broken down by party affiliation, 76 percent of Democrats, 47 percent of Republicans, and 80 percent of Independents said they disapproved.
Meanwhile, 84 percent of all adults and 84 percent of voters said they oppose a full presidential pardon for Libby. Broken down by party, 82 percent of Democrats, 70 percent of Republicans, and 97 percent of Independents oppose a pardon.
Defending his decision to grant Libby clemency, Bush indicated on Tuesday he hasn’t ruled out granting the former White House aide a full pardon.
Do the numbers reveal whether they disapproved because they thought he should have been pardoned or because they thought he should have been allowed to serve jail time?
yeah, that's it, they all supported a full Libby pardon instead....
...and in other news, a majority of Americans feel more alienated from their elected representatives than ever....
Who said all of them? It just would be nice if pollsters would make clear how the number break out. Because, personally, I know of a bunch of people who disapproved because they thought he should have pardoned Libby.
Well, with the do-nothing-but-300-administration-investigations-in-100-days Congress in Session, is it any wonder?
That was my initial thought as well. I was happy for Libby, but pissed at Bush. However, this still gives Libby the process of a full reversal of the charges in the appeal process. I figure that is very likely since he wouldn't be in fromn of a juryt from DC liberals. After some thought, I think our president did what was best.
AHF and FWD need to post here more often. They represent the people of the United States and all that is good and moral.
boutons and dan have the left blindly covered and xray and yoni have the right blindly covered. Those preceding 4 represent everything that is wrong with this country and embody the word "zealotry". They occasionally disagree with their party to create a fake image of being in the middle, but are obviously nothing but sheep. They are the ones that get voted into office.
You know very well it would put his approval rating even more in the toilet and cement his place as the worst president ever over Nixon. It would affect the rest of his term too and lose republican support of those republicans already disillusioned and on-the-fence.Why not just pardon him today? It's not like the Democrats could be any more ridiculous over the matter than they are right now.
Bashing the president doesn't matter, you all did it because he betrayed his own conservative ideology that you blindly follow to your death. Because the one time the guy thought for himself and not his party's hard-line stance. You'll get 1 point of being more centrist when you bash a conservative ideal or libertarian ideal. A blind zealot is still a blind zealot anyways when they are still 99% for their party, regardless of cir stance.Where were you when many of the President's supporters, me included, bashed his compromise "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" piece of trash into the dust where it belonged?
Is it partisan to believe the President did the right thing in this case? And, as far as bashing Clinton, I've only done so on a few of his pardons or commutations. , he granted 496 of 'em, there's bound to have been one that was deserved. I only complained about the 4 or so that were newsworth and clearly some kind of quid pro quo.
I'm SHOCKED DO YOU HEAR ME shocked
Blindly follow. Bet Bush wouldn't agree with you after
some of the missives I have sent to his 1500 Penn.
address. Bet my Senators and Congressman wouldn't
agree with you either.
No I don't blindly follow anyone. But conservative I am.
I don't deny it and I have never said I am middle of
any road. Because I am definitely not. But I am
en led to my opinion and to express it, just as you are.
And you or anyone else is en led to disagree with it,
as I am yours or anyone else opinion.
I do become somewhat puzzled though. I often have to
wonder if some on this board have enough common
sense to actually read something other than the MSM
or listen to someone other than the network newscast,
including FOX.
You know one thing that really bothers me. If you even
really care. Is polls and politicians who read them.
The Clintons and dimms follow them religiously. Like
Dan and boutons. Politicians who do are followers, not
leaders. And what we need more than anything else are
leaders. Bush is one to a degree, but he has a liberal
streak in him a mile wide, just like his father. The
really sad thing is that I don't see a leader on the
horizon, maybe Fred Thompson or Guillani, but that
is to be seen later. The dimm-o-craps are running the
same old bunch with the same old tunes. America is
a racist, uncaring bunch of fools who needs to learn to care for the poor, downtrodden and medically deprived. That
government is the only answer and they will solve all
the ills of the country. My God, how many years have we heard this same tune sung by the same group, who have done nothing to cure anyone of anything. And that group of who they supposedly champion keep right on voting for them and praising them for keeping them in the same
situation generation after generation.
Except for one little thing. Many of those in the
minority are actually doing something for themselves
and joining the middle class and really don't like the
dimms who keep telling them they are the downtrodden,
and stupid when they aren't and really never were.
And funny thing happened on the way to success,
the dimms decided that those of that class who did
succeeded are traitors to their race. You know like
Condoleeza Rice, Clarence Thomas and Albert Gonzales.
There are many other examples.
Anyhow, yes color me what ever color you want, just
remember I never laid claim to anything except being
a conservative and someone who supports their country.
And my countries interest. Whether it be oil or any
other thing.
Another peeve of mine is the liberals and their
diversity crap. Diversity never did anything for anyone.
And that is a fact.
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