Sizing Up the Suns

[JMarkJohns]

Maybe. Iverson, Camby and Nene have never been players to count on for a full season. Plus, they lost Blake and relegated Smith to the bench, if not out-right waived him. Not sure.

Still, I'd say Utah is the most likely to overtake Phoenix of the "next three", mainly because they enter with largely the same roster, the same coach and have tons of depth to sustain a high level of play through injury.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

There's no way that Phoenix is going to lose less than sixty games unless Nash goes down for an extended period of time. James Jones is a scrub, and Kurt Thomas had zero impact on the regular season (he was injured for a good portion of it and coach never played him much). Amare is going to be healthy the entire year, so if anything I'd expect improvement for our regular season record.

I don't think you can call Houston a top four seed just because of how injury prone McGrady and Yao are (plus, I don't know how Yao will adjust to Adelman's system, especially with all the ball hogs on that team). Utah is interesting, but they're not really a regular season team.

I think that alot of people forget that Amare and Boris both had subpar seasons (by their standards), and it looks to only get better (especially in Amare's case).

[Xylus]

Perhaps. I'm not buying into Hill hype just yet. While I know what he could do, I'm not certain D'Antoni's smart or capable enough to put him in the best position to succeed. He failed with Barbosa until his brother got a hold of him. He hasn't done anything with Banks. He underused Thomas. He never used Rose.

Also, I do think teams will start to play Phoenix more physically, since it's obvious they are overly emotional and lack a calming presense. Even Nash got upset after Horry bodychecked him, getting up, screaming and running towards Horry.

You could be right. The well-oiled offensive regular-season machine may be in great shape next season. I just think a lack of frontcourt depth, PG depth and experience within the system at SF are a few too many issues for me to buy into this upcoming Suns team as a 60-win team.

I think Utah has loads of talent and if you expect the Suns to remain because certain players are improving, then what about the Jazz with Williams, Brewer, Millsap and even Kirilenko?

It's not so much the Grant Hill hype--I think he'll have a positive effect on the team, but it's not like his presence puts us over the top. It's more the fact that we're virtually the same regular season team that we were last year, and our young guys continue to improve.

Sure, Houston and Utah will be great teams next year, but the Suns will always be one step ahead because of incredible offense. Utah scares me a little more than Houston, though, since the latter has yet to prove they can win a playoff series with their current core.

[JMarkJohns]

Is there no potential account for Nash starting to wear down? He's been ridden into the ground the past three years. His minutes have gone up, up and up...

I do worry, and I have a pretty solid track-record of calling things right. Like I said, I give the Suns a realistic 54-to-58 wins and a third or fourth place finish. Behind Dallas, San Antonio and, maybe, Utah, a team that won 50+ last year with a second-year PG and injury problems.

[Xylus]

There is potential for Nash to start wearing down, but no actual evidence that he is. He's in great shape. His game isn't predicated on athleticism, so even if he does start to slow down, I don't think we'll notice. His shot might start to suffer (again, no evidence of that occurring yet), but he's only getting smarter as a passer and a playmaker.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'll believe it when I see it. It's hard for me to predict that Nash will start to wear down a year after the best 82 games of his career.

[Shred]

There is potential for Nash to start wearing down, but no actual evidence that he is. He's in great shape. His game isn't predicated on athleticism, so even if he does start to slow down, I don't think we'll notice. His shot might start to suffer (again, no evidence of that occurring yet), but he's only getting smarter as a passer and a playmaker.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'll believe it when I see it. It's hard for me to predict that Nash will start to wear down a year after the best 82 games of his career.

I recall every thread on SpursReport.com back in 2004 being about how Nash would "break down" by the end of the season. Result? Two straight (should've been 3) MVP Awards.

[Kindergarten Cop]

There's no way that Phoenix is going to lose less than sixty games unless Nash goes down for an extended period of time.

Now that's a BOLD prediction from a Suns fan! You realize that you are stating that the Suns will "lose MORE than 60 games"? That would leave you with a minimum of 21 wins. WOW!!! Who is it in the lottery that you are hoping to get next season?

I'm just teasing because I feel that the Spurs, Mavs, and Suns will still be top three in the NBA next season - although it wouldn't suprise me if the Jazz joined the mix because Sloan is one of the best coaches in the NBA and they have a GREAT young core of players. Houston, I'm not so worried about - at least until Yao and McGrady can prove to stay healthy and get out of the first round of the Playoffs.

[Obstructed_View]

There is potential for Nash to start wearing down, but no actual evidence that he is. He's in great shape. His game isn't predicated on athleticism, so even if he does start to slow down, I don't think we'll notice. His shot might start to suffer (again, no evidence of that occurring yet), but he's only getting smarter as a passer and a playmaker.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'll believe it when I see it. It's hard for me to predict that Nash will start to wear down a year after the best 82 games of his career.

Nash's game isn't predicated on athleticism? He's an outstanding athlete on a running offense, and he's the focal point of the entire outfit. That's a foolish statement.

Here's the situation: Nash has back problems, the team STILL has not developed a remotely capable backup for him, his coach seems determined to ride him as long as he can, his minutes are up sharply as a result, and oh by the way he has attempted to add a modi of defense to his game in the form of standing in front of people and getting crashed into, which is a bad situation for an aging guy who is incredibly compe ive and tough as saddle leather.

Maverick nation's predictions that Nash would soon start to break down may have been premature, but Nash has only played through half of his contract, and it's been brutal on a guy who isn't getting any younger and had legitimate durability concerns three years ago.

[Findog]

Possibly. My point is only that he was released to relieve his team luxury tax dollars. Does when he signed the contract make any difference?

No, not really, when the point is to avoid lux tax. People seem to think that was an irresponsible contract for the Mavs to hand out, but at the time, he was a FA when Dallas was coming off its first postseason in 11 years, he was still the team's best player, we had just gotten waxed by San Antonio and seen just how far we had to go to make it to the elite level, and Finley himself has said that he was interested in signing with the Spurs in the summer of 2001. To the extent that they bid against themselves in the process of giving him that huge contract, I don't know, but it wasn't so strange for a player of Finley's caliber to get that much money then. It was the right move to resign him and then cut him when the amnesty provision became available.

[wildbill2u]

It almost doesn't matter how many games are won/lost or where all these teams finish in the Western Conference. Take any one of them into the playoffs and there is the possiblity of the underdog beating the higher seeded team a la GS v. Mavs last year.

The West is simply loaded with good teams, great players and some entertaining styles for basketball fans to argue over. It should be another dog fight for any of them to get to the WCF championship.

[barbacoataco]

Western Conference- S.A., Dallas, and Phoenix are the top, and each has a good chance to win it all. Then you have Utah and Denver with a lot of talent, and maybe the potential to challenge the top 3 teams. Houston had the 4th best record last year, and just added Scola. That is 6 teams who are solid quality teams.

After these 6 teams you have Golden State, maybe the Hornets. Then you have Seattle and Portland that are loaded with young talent, and who knows? Maybe could develop faster than people expect.

With this much talent, is it possible that the big 3 of S.A., Mavs and Suns will have their hands full next year? And in the East, you don't really see teams getting better. Detroit and Miami seem more likely to get worse and not better. I guess Chicago and Cleveland will compete, but the difference between West-East might get even greater over the next 2-3 years.

[Clutch20]

With this much talent, is it possible that the big 3 of S.A., Mavs and Suns will have their hands full next year?

One of my points on an earlier post. The big 3, I was wondering how much more they have to be on top of things to push the rest of the squad to notch up their game.

Our big 3 have proven in the past to figure things out, where the lapses occur, where the weak points begin to develop by halftime. You want your best players on the floor at certain points in the game for pushes, protecting leads, efficient matchups, etc.

The other teams top 3 players will be hard pressed to match ours but they can do it if they're not distracted or can calm down enough to make good decisions.

[Kindergarten Cop]

One of my points on an earlier post. The big 3, I was wondering how much more they have to be on top of things to push the rest of the squad to notch up their game.

Our big 3 have proven in the past to figure things out, where the lapses occur, where the weak points begin to develop by halftime. You want your best players on the floor at certain points in the game for pushes, protecting leads, efficient matchups, etc.

The other teams top 3 players will be hard pressed to match ours but they can do it if they're not distracted or can calm down enough to make good decisions.

I took it that he/she did not necessarily mean the "big 3" as in three individual players from each team, but the "big 3" in the sense of the three teams atop the West Conference (Spurs, Mavs, Suns).

You do make good points though about our big three matching up well against any top 3 players from any other team in the league.

[Xylus]

Nash's game isn't predicated on athleticism? He's an outstanding athlete on a running offense, and he's the focal point of the entire outfit. That's a foolish statement.

I'm not saying the guy's not an athlete, but he doesn't have athleticism like Amare has athleticism. Nash doesn't jump very high or run particularly fast, but he works himself out so that he has great endurance. He excels in a fast-paced offense because he's a born passer. And he fools faster, stronger defenders by being deceptive.

I can't predict when his back injuries are going to obstruct his game, but the guy has gotten better year after year, with the best year of his career last season. He shows no signs of slowing down, so there's no guarantee that he will in the next couple of years. I don't care what the situation is... people keep saying that D'Antoni is going to wear Nash out, but I haven't seen it.

[exstatic]

I'm not saying the guy's not an athlete, but he doesn't have athleticism like Amare has athleticism. Nash doesn't jump very high or run particularly fast, but he works himself out so that he has great endurance. He excels in a fast-paced offense because he's a born passer. And he fools faster, stronger defenders by being deceptive.

I can't predict when his back injuries are going to obstruct his game, but the guy has gotten better year after year, with the best year of his career last season. He shows no signs of slowing down, so there's no guarantee that he will in the next couple of years. I don't care what the situation is... people keep saying that D'Antoni is going to wear Nash out, but I haven't seen it.

So, he'll be able to play into his fifties?

All NBA players begin to show their age. Unfortunately for PHO, small guards usually do it first. Continue to deny it, but just because you haven't seen it yet, doesn't mean it won't happen. He's 33 ing years old.

[OldDirtMcGirt]

So, he'll be able to play into his fifties?

All NBA players begin to show their age. Unfortunately for PHO, small guards usually do it first. Continue to deny it, but just because you haven't seen it yet, doesn't mean it won't happen. He's 33 ing years old.

Yeah, but I'm not sure how many players have a significant drop off in production after they've had the best season of their careers. Barring some sort of freak injury (which is just that: a freak occurence) there should be no considerable harm done to Nash's game. Guys like Nash (and the same applies for Duncan for that matter), who rely heavily on intangibles and not their athleticism and who have comparably less wear on their bodies tend to have a pretty decent shelf life. I expect Nash to continue at roughly the same level until he's about 35-36.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

I don't get this "Steve Nash doesn't have athleticism" take. Steve Nash is incredibly athletic. Running real fast and jumping real high are only some dimensions of athleticism. Where Nash excels is in quickness, dexterity, vision, accuracy, flexibility, and hand-eye coordination. He is like a Wayne Gretzky in hockey, any of the great soccer players, or like a John Stockton (another extremely underrated athlete) before him.

You don't get to his level in the NBA without being an amazingly gifted athlete.

I hesitate to bring this up, but I wonder if there's a racial element to this. I often see people underrate white players' athletic abilities and overrate their "basketball IQ", and the opposite with black players.

I once saw a do entary about race and the NBA. It was pretty interesting, they talked to white players about being minorities and being discriminated against and discounted because of their race. I remember they interviewed Steve Kerr, and he talked about sitting on the Spurs bench with Antonio Daniels (when they were both on the team). They had a running joke -- whenever a white player made a great play, Kerr would say, "That was a really intelligent play!" and when a black player did the same, Daniels would say, "What an athlete he is!"

[Clutch20]

I took it that he/she did not necessarily mean the "big 3" as in three individual players from each team, but the "big 3" in the sense of the three teams atop the West Conference (Spurs, Mavs, Suns).

You do make good points though about our big three matching up well against any top 3 players from any other team in the league.

Yeah, I ran past her statement and in doing so made me take it as the top 3 players of the top teams.
Thanks for the point-out Kindergarten Cop!

[Clutch20]

I hesitate to bring this up, but I wonder if there's a racial element to this.

You make a good point about racism impacting on at udes and notions expressed by people about atheletes. Now I'm wondering just exactly where Asians, Orientals, and Hispanics fit in the black and white NBA rainbow.

[O-Factor]

I expect Nash to continue at roughly the same level until he's about 35-36.

Whatever works for you...