Brent? Are you getting the message?

[timvp]

Sorry, it must be an evil plan by Pop to get you carpal tunnel syndrome.

[whottt]

Yeah, me too. Whottt, Barry is going to get his chances and he's going to get his minutes.

How so? Under what conditions will that occur? When he starts outplaying Devin Brown? On both sides of the ball? That will never happen. Barry could never be the defender Brown is. And that's the biggest part of my problem with what is happening now. I think these are the minutes that Pop is going to give to the 8th man. I don't think he should have a set 8th man, I don't think he should have set minutes. And I think Devin Brown should be starting at SF.

So basically the only way I see things changing is if someone gets hurt or starts playing badly. That doesn't give me any more of a warm feeling.

And it's not like I'm making the stuff up...we all saw what he did with Kerr..thousands of us complained for years that he would never put Kerr in in the midst of blowing 4th quarter leads...It was Duncan that got Kerr off the bench in 03, even though Kerr was our back up PG for almost the entire season, and played very well while Speedy was out.

Kerr was better than Speedy in 03. Kerr did more to win that championship than Speedy, regular season and playoffs. But you wouldn't know that looking at how Kerr was used when Speedy was healthy. And that was hardly unique to Kerr's career...granted Kerr didn't exactly tear it up in every post season with the Spurs...bit he had legacy...what he could do was known.

I mean you'd think when Pop has the best 3 shooter in NBA history on his bench, that guy might come to mind when he is looking for threes and watching Porter, Ferry, etc...brick them into a post season loss. But he never did that...he traded him.

He possesses a lot of skills that the Spurs desperately need on this team. He's a very important piece.

Preaching to the choir.

It will work out -- patience is a virtue. Don't think that his minutes in the last three games are the permanent norm.

I don't...I think it's getting worse, now he's not even getting garbage minutes.

DNP's come next?

I know what Pop is doing...Pop's ripping them to play D...he's getting them in that defensive mindset that is annual thing...but Barry is the team , he's being intentionally made into the team by Pop...And it's unjustified IMO it's also misguided.


Pop is busting his ass, breaking him down, so he can try and make him into a defensive player, so he can use him without his precious defensive schemes getting broken...but he needs to back the off because what he is doing isn't working.


Some guys are just what they are.

Just like Rasho...everyone thinks Rasho is solved...well Rasho isn't solved. Rasho will float again. Bank on it. IT's not that he's soft..it's just the type of guy he is.

But this, I mean does Barry seem to be improving? On top of that he wasn't playing that badly prior to the Detroit game.

I'm not just making this stuff up...We all know how Pop is.

[Rick Von Braun]

Maybe Barry was s -shocked after getting his shot blocked 15 rows up into the stands. A little more to the right and I could have caught it.

Technically it was not a block, because there was a foul called right before it happened. Nice play by King J. though

I would give Barry at least 15 minutes per game.

[exstatic]

If the shot would have counted (and it would have), does not the defensive player get the block?

[ChumpDumper]

The thing that impressed me most about Kerr's heroics against Dallas and NJ was his near-flawless defense given the cir stances. You can say whatever you want about whatever you think is Pop's fault, but you can't ignore that Kerr sure as understood Pop's D and his work on D that game was just as important as all those threes.

If anything, Barry is BETTER equipped to fit in the defense than Kerr ever was.

He can get it. Don't give up on him.

[timvp]

If the shot would have counted (and it would have), does not the defensive player get the block?

Many argue that should be the rule, but it isn't. Too bad because Robinson would have averaged like 5 blocks a game throughout his career because once the whistle blew, he defended the rim at all costs.

[timvp]

The thing that impressed me most about Kerr's heroics against Dallas and NJ was his near-flawless defense given the cir stances. You can say whatever you want about whatever you think is Pop's fault, but you can't ignore that Kerr sure as understood Pop's D and his work on D that game was just as important as all those threes.

If anything, Barry is BETTER equipped to fit in the defense than Kerr ever was.

He can get it. Don't give up on him.

of a good point. Kerr played awesome defense when put into the game.

It wasn't just the three-pointtters.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't...I think it's getting worse, now he's not even getting garbage minutes.

DNP's come next?

I know what Pop is doing...Pop's ripping them to play D...he's getting them in that defensive mindset that is annual thing...but Barry is the team , he's being intentionally made into the team by Pop...And it's unjustified IMO it's also misguided.


Pop is busting his ass, breaking him down, so he can try and make him into a defensive player, so he can use him without his precious defensive schemes getting broken...but he needs to back the off because what he is doing isn't working.

Like I said, Pop gave him an eight minute stretch in the first half and would have given him probably the same in the second half if he did something in the first. And it's not just D. It's anything.

Barry, if he's the player we all know he is, will earn his minutes back. He can get his eight minutes, plus take two each from Manu, Bowen, Beno and Devin and have 16 mpg. But he's not going to get them if he doesn't do anything.

Again, I repeat, he could have done something, anything in those eight minutes tonight in the first half. He didn't.

Pop isn't ripping him constantly about D like you fantasize in your head. Pop wants him to succeed. He's trying to get him to be part of the team and it's success -- offensively and defensively. And he will. Barry will be one of the many keys off the Spurs bench this season. And he'll end up averaging 16-20 mpg.

But don't go crazy about it right now. Pop isn't the one who caused Barry to go 0-for-17 from 3 over that stretch of games. Barry has to work through this ... and he will. You act like it's impossible for him to earn minutes back. He just needs to play smart, and play steady. It's not about him becoming a defensive juggernaut.

[whottt]

The thing that impressed me most about Kerr's heroics against Dallas and NJ was his near-flawless defense given the cir stances. You can say whatever you want about whatever you think is Pop's fault, but you can't ignore that Kerr sure as understood Pop's D and his work on D that game was just as important as all those threes.

After 5 years, and no, his D was not as important as those threes. Please do not say that. He was in there for his threes. And they were what turned the tide. In any case, prior to the yankem phase Barry was doing a lot of other stuff that was helping our O, other than shooting threes.

If anything, Barry is BETTER equipped to fit in the defense than Kerr ever was.

jholy . Please tell me you don't think that is an original thought?

He can get it. Don't give up on him.

I know you can stop being pedophile. I won't give up on your ability to memorize the gettysburg adress. Perhaps someday you will will be able to back up your smack about tunneling under mount Everestt

[whottt]

2+2=4, Whottt doesn't get it. We do.

[ChumpDumper]

Please tell me you don't think that is an original thought?

No, you need the obvious pointed out to you a billion times over. You're the one claiming he is incapable of learning.

and no, his D was not as important as those threes. Please do not say that. He was in there for his threes.

If all we were going to do was trade baskets and have Kerr foul every time he tried to defend, Spurs lose.

I will ask you one more time, since being asked questions makes you all nicey nice -- you claim.

How many minutes do you want Barry to play every night?

You have typed everything in the known universe tonight -- type a number.

[whottt]

What you guys fail to remember about 03...is that Pop tried to ice him again. He even embarrassed himself in the media after game 4 when some journalists owned him on why we kept blowing 4th quarter leads.

Pop never appreciated Steve Kerr's value, Kerr's D was always unfairly maligned, on top of that, the guy never had any knees from day 1 in the NBA, more like after his senior season in college...tough to be a good defender with no knees.


Pop still had to be cajoled into using Kerr in the playoffs, even after the Dallas game. Even after a very solid regular season by Kerr. Pop even got owned in the media after game 4 of the finals. I see nothing to give me any faith in Pop that Barry is going to turn out to be different.

I could never figure out why Kerr went 3 months without playing. But it's not a method I advocate to get the most out of your guards...I mean it's not like Pop turned Kerr into a good 3 shooter by doing that. He was already a good one, and fortunately for us...he already knew he could help win a championship...Pop certainly never did anything to make him believe that.

And as you guys was poetic about Kerr in 03....just remember Pop traded him and went with Terry Porter, the ringless one.

[ChumpDumper]

Ok, fire Pop. We get it.

Looks like Pop isn't going anywhere though.

You seriously believe Barry can't play team D on even a Steve Smith level?

Still waiting on that number.

[whottt]

No, you need the obvious pointed out to you a billion times over. You're the one claiming he is incapable of learning.

Nope, I'm the one claiming his D will never justify, in the eyes of Pop and other heads who like choking in the playoffs, the minutes his O does to any sane person..

If all we were going to do was trade baskets and have Kerr foul every time he tried to defend, Spurs lose.

If D was of equal importance to threes Kerr would not have been in the game. Luckily for us Duncan is sane.

I will ask you one more time, since being asked questions makes you all nicey nice -- you claim.

How many minutes do you want Barry to play every night?

And I will again refuse to classify it in those terms. And tell you to kindly scroll your ass on back to the previous answers I have given. That also lack a set number.

Meanwhile...you go ahead and get 40 other people to put words in mouth and then I'll do my part and keep calling you stupid.

You have typed everything in the known universe tonight -- type a number.

It's not the number of minutes in and of themselvess that is important to me. It's the yanking in big games and the absence of his skills when we are in the process of blowing leads(insert ty like rationalization of all Barry's games this season being like tonights, or the other games since the yanking has been occuring, here)

And I know that statement will your simple mind all up...I can't help it.

[ChumpDumper]

And I will again refuse to classify it in those terms.

But 8 isn't enough. That's a number.

And tell you to kindly scroll your ass on back to the previous answers I have given. That also lack a set number.

Which is why I keep asking what your threshold is for not whining about his PT? How will we know when you are happy?

It's not the number of minutes in and of themselvess that is important to me.

Nor to me. I want the minutes to be of something resembling quality play. He'll get more if they are. Any other way is a complete waste -- an insult to the players who are actually playing well and to Barry, who doesn't need your undetermined number of pity minutes [insert ty like rationalization that Barry's lack of PT is the only reason the Spurs could ever lose a game this season here] .

[whottt]

Ok, fire Pop. We get it.

Um, I've never seriously called for Pop to be fired...and only once in jest...Karl Malone. And if you bothered to read in MB's dynasty thread, I've said that when this organization loses Pop it will have a lot of struggles ahead of it and will probably not be able to match it's current success...#1.For losing the organizational genius that Pop is..an area he is far superior in to coaching...#2. It'd be difficult to replace him as a head coach. He's a brilliant defensive head coach.

But that doesn't mean he doesn't do stupid when it comes to offense and guards. It doesn't mean he's flawless...He does. One of his best attributes is that he gets lucky.

Lucky we didn't sign Jason Kidd. Lucky we didn't sign Chris Webber...

Looks like Pop isn't going anywhere though.

I don't want Pop to go anywhere...I just want him to listen to me about guards so we can stop choking in the post season.

You seriously believe Barry can't play team D on even a Steve Smith level?

Um, you must want to see Barry's minutes reduced even more.

Still waiting on that number.

Grab a snickers.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't want Pop to go anywhere...I just want him to listen to me about guards so we can stop choking in the post season.

LMFAO

Keep typing -- I'm sure he can hear the tapping.

Um, you must want to see Barry's minutes reduced even more.

So that's a "no"?

You really think this guys sucks. Dig up that trade you claim to have proposed -- maybe Pop will "listen" to that.

[whottt]

But 8 isn't enough. That's a number.Which is why I keep asking what your threshold is for not whining about his PT? How will we know when you are happy?

When his number gets called as viable option in the second half of big games in which we are blowing leads.

Unfortunately, tonight was a new low so who knows if he still has that or not...

Nor to me. I want the minutes to be of something resembling quality play. He'll get more if they are. Any other way is a complete waste -- an insult to the players who are actually playing well and to Barry, who doesn't need your undetermined number of pity minutes [insert ty like rationalization that Barry's lack of PT is the only reason the Spurs could ever lose a game this season here] .

You just don't get it do you....I'm not wanting Barry to get those minutes for pity...I want him to get them because he is the most steady, sure handed, and experienced guard on our team, he takes the best shots, he's the best FT shooter, he's the best midranger shooter, he leads the team in 2 t FG%, he makes the best passes with the fewest amount of TO's... and I think he can help prevent blowing 4th quarter leads because of those things, even if his 3 isn't falling....regardless of what he shoots in the first half or how he plays D.

[ChumpDumper]

There's the rationalization.

Only Barry can save us.

If we lose it can only be because he didn't play enough.

[whottt]

LMFAO

Keep typing -- I'm sure he can hear the tapping.So that's a "no"?

That's a "me calling you stupid" again.

You really think this guys sucks.

No, I think you suck.

Dig up that trade you claim to have proposed

with Sato for Jax?

-- maybe Pop will "listen" to that.

I doubt he reads the board. A sane person would probably realize that.

[whottt]

There's the rationalization.

Only Kerr can save us.

If we lose it can only be because Kerr didn't play enough.

FTFY

[ChumpDumper]

I doubt he reads the board. A sane person would probably realize that.

Hey, you're the one who wants him to listen to you.

[whottt]

Hey, you're the one who wants him to listen to you.

Wanting it and thinking it is or will happen are two different things...actually 3 different things but you know what I mean...er never mind, forgot who I was talking with...

3 different things.

[ChumpDumper]

You just don't get it do you....I'm not wanting Barry to get those minutes for pity...I want him to get them because he is the most steady, sure handed, and experienced guard on our team, he takes the best shots, he's the best FT shooter, he's the best midranger shooter, he leads the team in 2 t FG%, he makes the best passes with the fewest amount of TO's... and I think he can help prevent blowing 4th quarter leads because of those things, even if his 3 isn't falling....regardless of what he shoots in the first half or how he plays D.

I'd rather give that time to the young guys who actually play worth a during the course of a game to develop so they can play in these situations when they really count, y'know in case your dream comes true and Barry sucks as much as you say he does.

[whottt]

I'd rather give the young guys who are actually play worth a during the course of a game to develop so they can play in these situations when they really count,

And you'd also "lean towards" Hedo over Manu just because Manu is in a slump after taking one for the team...

y'know in case your dream comes true and Barry sucks as much as you say he does.

I gotta give you credit...you really do push the envelope when it comes to stupidity.