Panathinaikos Ponderings ....

[picnroll]

I don't have a doubt Barry wanted to be a Spur...and he's conducted himself like one for his entire time here...


But he probably wouldn't have wanted to sign with a team where he wasn't wanted...ring or not...


Would you?

As they say it's a business. I remember him being pretty ecstatic, not offended and wanting to leave, when the deal for JR Smith fell through. He's had great teammates and has the memories of having some clutch moments contributing to NBA les. It could have been better but it could have been worse, like palying with a bunch of knuckleheads and gong nowhere in Portland.

[whottt]

Barry's never had the luxury of being told...you're the guy, this is your role...

It's been...you suck defensively, and any hustling defensive guy is going to be put ahead of you in the rotation if they are hitting their threes at a decent rate.

I think that was a mistake...becuase I think if you weigh his offensive stregnths vs his defensive liablities...he still comes out ahead at a player you want on the court, to most coaches without a defense is everything mindset.


THe Spurs should be glad they signed Barry....double teams for Duncan have never been a problem since we signed him...he's been invaluable at spot duty backing up Bruce, when Manu's been injured, and when Beno has been sucking...


Beno is the soft player who chokes...not Barry...

Beno has been told, you're my back up PG, by Pop since the day he was drafted...and he's the guy that's folded under pressure, that's whined...etc.

And you guys do a of a disservice to Barry by making similar claims about him...

Barry plays better when he gets knocked around...and when the pressure has been at it's highest...he's come up with some of his best games....even when his shot wasn't falling.

[picnroll]

Beno isn't even a player. Beno is a bench ornament.

[whottt]

As they say it's a business. I remember him being pretty ecstatic, not offended and wanting to leave, when the deal for JR Smith fell through. He's had great teammates and has the memories of having some clutch moments contributing to NBA les. It could have been better but it could have been worse, like palying with a bunch of knuckleheads and gong nowhere in Portland.

It's a simple matter of pride...no one wants to be given up on, or be the guy the championship team could do without...


See you guys act suprised that Barry's not a head...guess what, he's not one.

[itzsoweezee]

-Ian Mahinmi is looking about as good as can be expected. * * * He's not going to be a great player

what a surprise. there's this other big guy that the spurs had who they gave away to a division rival to save a couple million bucks. what was his name again? anyway, that guy is going to be a great player. you just gotta love those cheap bas s - aka, the spurs front office for choosing mediocrity and money over championships. oh wait, no you don't. the spurs FO.

[whottt]

Beno isn't even a player. Beno is a bench ornament.

Just remember when you guys say Barry's afraid of pressure...


He came here to win a ring...I expect he knew there would be big games that would need to be played while he was in a Spurs uniform.



Hedo was the guy who couldn't get out of town fast enough....


And if anything Barry's problems are because he hasn't been as big a part of it as he wanted to be.


The choker/folds under pressure criticism of Barry has always pissed me off...because it's so obviously not true.

[picnroll]

Barry was brought in as the filler for Hedo who was the filler for Jack. He was brought in with a defined role. He was supposed to be the swing man off the bench, Brown wasn't supposed to be. He got the mintues intially. It didn't work out and meet Pop's expectations as well as the he'd hoped.

[objective]

Question for those who have seen Mahinmi this preseason:

How would you compare how he looks right now to how Johan Petro looked last year, his second year in the league?

Compare and contrast please.

[Darkwaters]

what a surprise. there's this other big guy that the spurs had who they gave away to a division rival to save a couple million bucks. what was his name again? anyway, that guy is going to be a great player. you just gotta love those cheap bas s - aka, the spurs front office for choosing mediocrity and money over championships. oh wait, no you don't. the spurs FO.

Scola is going to be a good player. But who knows if he'll be great? I have seen no indication of that.

[Darkwaters]

Williams looks to be safe because there's no one to compete against him. I do think he's lucky that the Air Force kept Nwaelele away from Spurs' camp. Nwaelele would have had a good shot at beating out Williams and making the team.

The Suns just released Rawle Marshall. Would he be a better project than Marcus Williams?

[spursrule32]

what a surprise. there's this other big guy that the spurs had who they gave away to a division rival to save a couple million bucks. what was his name again? anyway, that guy is going to be a great player. you just gotta love those cheap bas s - aka, the spurs front office for choosing mediocrity and money over championships. oh wait, no you don't. the spurs FO.

I disagree - I think Ian has a chance (slight as it may be) of being more important to the Spurs scheme of playing solid D than Scola would have been to their offensive scheme. I know I'll catch flack for this, but we have our offense covered by the big 3 and a few of our bench players. Why sacrifice defense, so that you can get a few more points out of a player that won't be as prolific in our offense as he has been elsewhere? I was at the game last night and although Ian looked a little lost, he looked pretty impressive with his athleticism to block that shot that went across mid court (I know - just one play but still impressive.) We don't have a lot of quick big men that can react to players like Utah's Williams, Dallas' Harris, Phoenix' Barbosa (even though he struggles) and other quick guards that can be contained a bit with quick backside defensive help. Then again - I could be wrong and Ian could end up being a waste of potential.

[timvp]

So in answer to your question...

It's the coaches job to maximize the talents of the players, not the players job to change into a different player....

If you are a coach and your best player goes down....you know, the guy the team is built around...

You can beat that dead horse all you want...and tell guys they need to play better, but ultimately, it's going to fail...

And the great coaches in any sport, were the guys who could adjust to the strenghts of their players.



Barry is one of the most efficient offensive players in the NBA...even when you guys say he's sucked...

He's usually lead the team in 2 or 3 offensive categories...





Last year he was #1 in the entire NBA in true shooting PCT...
He lead the Spurs in virtually every shooting category.


His first year here he lead the team in 2pt PCT and adjust FG% as well as assist to to ratio....


Ok so he sucks and overthinks when he's asked to do nothing more than stand there and spot up for threes...

Then stop asking him to do that...and run a couple of plays for him...

Because when he's playing good...our offense freaking rolls and we blow teams out.

This is a classic post.

First of all, how is whottt going to talk down Pop as if Pop did something wrong by winning two out of the last three championships. The only time the Spurs didn't win was when Barry was so bad that he couldn't even inbound a pass. As long as Barry has been the human mannequin on the court and just not messed up, the Spurs have been okay the last three seasons.

I've grown to like Barry but nobody can tell me he lived up to his billing or his contract. He's been a disappointment personally but I give him bonus points for staying relatively positive. He's also a good teammate. Barry has been a good Spur.

But seriously, the lunacy must stop. Pop isn't going to turn the Spurs into the Suns so that Barry can play how he played on those lotto teams when he put up big numbers. Who seriously thought Pop would allow him to play exactly the same with the Spurs? There's a difference between championship basketball and Sonic basketball.

It's also classic how whottt always points to regular season stats with Barry. He conveniently ignores what Barry did in the playoffs and if pressed, he'll blame Pop, the other players, the coyote ... anything except putting blame on Barry. It's like Shane Heal/Steve Kerr/Tim Derk all over again.

How can whottt insinuate as Barry goes so goes the Spurs? The Spurs lost their first three games in the playoffs last year in which Barry played over 12 minutes. The only thing extended playing time given to Barry did last year in the playoffs was make the Spurs lose.

Looking at it any a broader scale ... guess which Spur over the last three years has the worst +/- in the playoffs? Yep, Mr. Untouchable himself, Brent Barry. Worse than Beno or anyone else you can name.

Bottomline is Barry is a good guy and wants to win, I'll give him that. However, he hasn't lived up to the expectations or his contract. And no, you can't pin the blame on 4-time champion Pop or the teammates that helped Barry win two rings.

[T Park]

guess which Spur over the last three years has the worst +/- in the playoffs? Yep, Mr. Untouchable himself, Brent Barry

More than Beno?

Ok thats just down right disgustingly embarassing right there.....

[objective]

Question for those who have seen Mahinmi this preseason:

How would you compare how he looks right now to how Johan Petro looked last year, his second year in the league?

Compare and contrast please.

[whottt]

This is a classic post.

First of all, how is whottt going to talk down Pop as if Pop did something wrong by winning two out of the last three championships. The only time the Spurs didn't win was when Barry was so bad that he couldn't even inbound a pass.

So Barry is the reason we didn't beat the Mavs? That's even more classic.

I've grown to like Barry but nobody can tell me he lived up to his billing or his contract. He's been a disappointment personally but I give him bonus points for staying relatively positive. He's also a good teammate. Barry has been a good Spur.

More classic...so he hasn't lived up to his billing yet...

Pop isn't going to turn the Spurs into the Suns so that Barry can play how he played on those lotto teams when he put up big numbers.

So let me get this straight...

Barry hasn't lived up to his billing - Your words

Pop isn't going to turn the Spurs into the Suns so that Barry can play how he played on those lotto teams when he put up big numbers - Your words again


So you hold Barry accountable for not playing as well as he played in Seattle...

And then in the next sentence you sit there and say you can't expect Pop to let him play like he played in Seattle...


Got it.


Makes perfect sense.


As does the decision to sign a non D playing, low scoring transition guard, and expect him to be a D oriented, high scoring, half court spot up shooter...

For 5 mil a year.

Yeah Barry's fault he couldn't turn into an entirely different player...

No, that Pop's fault. That's the Spurs fault.

I am sure Barry, like everyone else, thought, that since they were paying him 5 mil a year, they'd want utilize his strenghts...

Silly Barry, silly us. They didn't want Barry...they wanted someone en rely different...and it's his fault he's not that guy.

Who seriously thought Pop would allow him to play exactly the same with the Spurs? There's a difference between championship basketball and Sonic basketball.

Yeah...Sonics basketball swept the 2001 Lakers...they also almost bumped a Duncanless Spurs team out of the playoffs...

And there was marked difference in the Sonics W-L when he was injured.

It's also classic how whottt always points to regular season stats with Barry. He conveniently ignores what Barry did in the playoffs and if pressed, he'll blame Pop, the other players, the coyote ... anything except putting blame on Barry. It's like Shane Heal/Steve Kerr/Tim Derk all over again.

You mean like hte fact that he was the Spurs all time leading 3 PCT shooter in the post season...

You mean like the game winner against the Kings?

Or blowing game 1 against the Suns open in the fourth quarter of the 2005 WCF?


I know, I know...those don't matter....

How can whottt insinuate as Barry goes so goes the Spurs?

How can timvp say I'm making that insinuation?

Looking at it any a broader scale ... guess which Spur over the last three years has the worst +/- in the playoffs? Yep, Mr. Untouchable himself, Brent Barry. Worse than Beno or anyone else you can name.

So Beno > Barry..

Got it.

Bottomline is Barry is a good guy and wants to win, I'll give him that. However, he hasn't lived up to the expectations or his contract.

Because they Spurs didn't want a guy who can do what Barry can do...they wanted someone else, and tried to turn Barry into that...

And that's their fault...it's a fools errand.

And no, you can't pin the blame on 4-time champion Pop or the teammates that helped Barry win two rings.

I can pin the blame on the Spurs...they signed the dude and then wanted him to play a completely different game....they were the ones that knew they were going to change his game...

[whottt]

And furthermore...I said run a couple of plays for him, and let him initiate the offense...


You then turned that into retooling the entire offensive system and turning them into the Suns...I made no such claim, but nice exaggeration.

[mountainballer]

Washington - I liked him until I realized that he's 5'10 or so

Washington's measures from the predraft camp 2006:

Height w/o Shoes 5' 11.5"
Height w/shoes 6' 1"
Weight 195
Wingspan 6' 4"
Max Vert 37.5

sure, he isn't a very tall guy, but it's not that bad. (almsot exactly the same measures like Chris Paul)

I think Washington could be a sleeper. in his freshman year, he really looked like a very promising player, but he somehow went the wrong direction. shouldn't have left college after sop re season. considering he is just 21, there should be still a lot of room for improvement.
I see all the financial issues, that will force the Spurs to not waive Beno (and repleace him with a player like Darius) and agree that it is very unlikely, that it might happen. personally I would really like this move, even if there is a big risk that Washington also won't be any good.
but he reminds me about Daniel Gibson. they were about the same level and similar players a year ago. (Gibson had a much better reputation about his work ethic and character though, likely the major reason why he was drafted and Washington was not).
it also took some time last season, till Gibson started to make an impact. but we all saw in the POs, what potential Gibson does have and why he is considered a steal today.

[mardigan]

the spurs FO.

Yea, they have such a ty track record

[Kori Ellis]

Washington's measures from the predraft camp 2006:

Height w/o Shoes 5' 11.5" ...

That's good to know. I was standing near him and he didn't have his shoes on. I had on high heels and we were close to the same height. My guess was that he was 5'10/5'11.

[Mr. Body]

The Suns just released Rawle Marshall. Would he be a better project than Marcus Williams?

Way back all of a year ago, when Indiana was pondering what extra player they had to jettison and dumped James White, it was Rawle Marshall I hoped would drop for the Spurs to get. Looks like fantasy basketball's not much different than the league itself: after a certain point it's extremely diminishing returns.

And no, I'd not take Marshall over Williams. At least gawky Marcus has a shot at anything.