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  1. #101
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    Good posts.

  2. #102
    Maaaaaannnn fuck.... E20's Avatar
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    Yes you can...Musharraf is much more unpopular and he's cheated it more times.



    Normal there isn't good...for us.
    Benazir doesn't pack that much security as Musharraf does or common sense. From what I've seen on foreign news networks, she was constantly giving out speeches and even holding a parade out on in the open, that's basically a cat call for somebody to come and kill you and she was always on the move from one place or another gathering supporters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Musharraf rarely makes public appearances, if Musharraf played it dumb like Bhutto, he'd be dead. Also, correct me if I'm wrong again, but wouldn't Musharraf in power play towards the US's agenda?

    Sure Musharraf is unpopular, but he is like Saddam, there is little chance that he will be assassianted(sp) by his own people.

  3. #103
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    No, no, no. I'm not accusing you of attacking me personally. I know that is not the case at all. That was not the intent of my posts. I throw my opinions in here and my intent is not to attack anyone personally...well, maybe TPark...but I just like to voice my views and opinions even if they are in the minority or totally whack to some.
    But I think the fact that I don't feel speaking out against the war is being sympathetic to terrorist at all strikes a nerve. I know you don't mean it personally but when things like that are said it does hit me on a personal level. I like the fact that we can disagree yet have a great time and laugh as well. In the end, conservative or liberal, republican or democrat, we are all in this together.

    I'll agree with that...and good messageboard argument never hurt anyone

  4. #104
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I'll agree with that...and good messageboard argument never hurt anyone
    I concur.

  5. #105
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    Benazir doesn't pack that much security as Musharraf does or common sense. From what I've seen on foreign news networks, she was constantly giving out speeches and even holding a parade out on in the open, that's basically a cat call for somebody to come and kill you and she was always on the move from one place or another gathering supporters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Musharraf rarely makes public appearances, if Musharraf played it dumb like Bhutto, he'd be dead. Also, correct me if I'm wrong again, but wouldn't Musharraf in power play towards the US's agenda?

    Sure Musharraf is unpopular, but he is like Saddam, there is little chance that he will be assassianted(sp) by his own people.

    Um...Musharraf denied her the required security measures. She fingered the guy in her death letter...you think it's an election ploy?

    That letter was only intended to be read upon her death...that's not a ploy to get elected.

    That's about as true of a statement as you are going to get from a politician.


    And no Musharraf staying in power does not aid the US...it's always been a case of holding our nose while dealing with him and hoping he was generally concerned with solving Pakistan's issues...and he sold that image well. Plus due to the crappiness of the Pakistani leaders...he did hold up favorably...for a while.


    No him staying in power is not a good thing...because he's not commited to turning around the problems in Pakistan..or if he is, he's completely clueless on how to do it.

  6. #106
    Maaaaaannnn fuck.... E20's Avatar
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    Um...Musharraf denied her the required security measures. She fingered the guy in her death letter...you think it's an election ploy?

    That letter was only intended to be read upon her death...that's not a ploy to get elected.

    That's about as true of a statement as you are going to get from a politician.


    And no Musharraf staying in power does not aid the US...it's always been a case of holding our nose while dealing with him and hoping he was generally concerned with solving Pakistan's issues...and he sold that image well. Plus due to the crappiness of the Pakistani leaders...he did hold up favorably...for a while.


    No him staying in power is not a good thing...because he's not commited to turning around the problems in Pakistan..or if he is, he's completely clueless on how to do it.
    I'm pretty sure Bhutto had personal body guards and followers that acted as them, but to put herself out in the open even with personal body guards or Musharraf giving her security isn't gonna do much in Pakistan, because a suicide bomber is uknown and the fact that she interacted with the public gives suicide bombers a clear advantage of killing her. She nearly was killed when she came out of exile, she could have easily been one of the 150 people that died around her because of the suicide blast a couple of weeks ago when she returned. When it comes down to it security personnel doesn't do much in countries like where everybody looks the same and you don't know who is a crazy guy with a bomb. That's why everybody saw her death coming, because of her style.

    Also, about Musharraf staying in power: I'm not talking about the welfare and development of the Pakistani people being Musharraf's forte or the the US agenda, I'm talking about Musharraf cooperating with the US in finding terrorists/the war in terror. Because seriously, who cares about the Pakistani people?

  7. #107
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    Also, about Musharraf staying in power: I'm not talking about the welfare and development of the Pakistani people being Musharraf's forte or the the US agenda, I'm talking about Musharraf cooperating with the US in finding terrorists/the war in terror.
    He's not really doing htat anynore and hasn't been for a while...my guess is we said no to something he wanted.



    Because seriously, who cares about the Pakistani people?

    I do...because of Sept 11th.

  8. #108
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    Rawalpindi is a garrison city. Nobody breathes there without the military knowing about it.

    For Bhutto to be killed there... for malevolent interests to get close to her in that of all cities, it means either than Musharraf was complicit, or more likely, that Islamist sympathizers had infiltrated ISI.

  9. #109
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    Anybody for nuking Argentina?

  10. #110
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    Rawalpindi is a garrison city. Nobody breathes there without the military knowing about it.

    For Bhutto to be killed there... for malevolent interests to get close to her in that of all cities, it means either than Musharraf was complicit, or more likely, that Islamist sympathizers had infiltrated ISI.

    I don't even think the ISI or Musharraf would have to be directly involved...just withold the proper security measures. It really was that simple.


    Not that it's hard to believe that the ISI would be involved...since just about everything going over there right now they have been a part of in recent history.

    But it is telling that it happened in that city...for a number of reasons. No one puts the dark humor and irony mark on tragedy and murder like radical muslims...


    In any case...Musharraf has now got the permanent brand of lowlife on him...whether he actually did have anything to do with it, or not.

  11. #111
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    Anybody for nuking Argentina?
    Iran might be.

  12. #112
    I can live with it JoeChalupa's Avatar
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    I smell a conspiracy theory. There has to be some proof as to how she was really killed.

  13. #113
    Purrrrrrrrrrrr Holt's Cat's Avatar
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    Depending on who follows him up..and I disagree with increased...a lot more dead suicide bombers int he world now...not to mention more disillusioned.
    Disillusioned? More like enraged and fortified. The Great Satan has designs on the ME after all.


    there's no such thing as overracting to a nuclear weapon detonated in a US city IMO.

    The fact that you think there is...be sure to talk to me after it happens. And again in 6 months after it happened....
    The problem for you is that I was not reponding to your straw man argument which you don't seem fit to declare until after the fact.

    I said Bush's action was an overreaction. Unless we were hit by a nuclear attack that only you know about, try again.


    More like they realize the chances of someone that naive and idealistic becoming President are virturally nil...American people will never trust someone like that.
    Amusing, considering the presidencies of JFK and RR. It was the pragmatist Nixon who destroyed that trust.


    I'm with you on the Western Germany thing...but what scares me is you think that's a really important issue.
    Not an important issue, except when you consider the cost of maintaining bases in the Germanys of the world.




    Out of the blue...how do you get out of the blue from this conversation?

    One of us derailed....
    I think you derailed after your second J this afternoon. Make a coherent statement and perhaps you will be understood.


    Like it or not their support is entirely for their own benefit and pretty much the last thing they want to do, and counting on their help is akin to counting on some help from a couple of junkies in putting their dealer in jail...

    France and Germany have like 0 oil...it matters. Just ask Saddam...
    Of course their support is for their own benefit just like our concern about whether or not they are offended by our policies.

  14. #114
    I love J.T. smeagol's Avatar
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    They have already bombed us twice . . .

  15. #115
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    Disillusioned? More like enraged and fortified. The Great Satan has designs on the ME after all.
    False...for all your "unique" perspective...you really don't go looking beyond the shallowest public opinion/knowledge...you just spin it differently.



    The problem for you is that I was not reponding to your straw man argument which you don't seem fit to declare until after the fact.
    Whatever makes you happy MB.


    I said Bush's action was an overreaction. Unless we were hit by a nuclear attack that only you know about, try again.
    You talking about going into Iraq?


    Perhaps...the decision to do that can't be changed. It can't be changed later, it can't ever be changed again. The thing is...we are there now, what do we do...





    Amusing, considering the presidencies of JFK and RR. It was the pragmatist Nixon who destroyed that trust.
    Ok...



    Not an important issue, except when you consider the cost of maintaining bases in the Germanys of the world.

    So so greedy...why are you against the Iraq war again?



    I think you derailed after your second J this afternoon. Make a coherent statement and perhaps you will be understood.
    Believe it or not I don't argue when I'm stoned...



    Of course their support is for their own benefit just like our concern about whether or not they are offended by our policies.
    Their support is useless...it carries no military or true economic threat...and the split second they see an opportunity to become a regional power in the ME again...they will...and the ups with continue. If it's at our direct expense...all the better in their eyes.

    Basically behind all your offcenter views you're just another cynic, and a fatalistic one at that. In 15 years you'll be living in a cabin in Idaho. Not that there's anything wrong with that really...you ought to just give up on the political process now and save yourself some long slow years of disillusionment. The USA is completely and hopelessly ed up...right?

  16. #116
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    By the way Marcus...I disagree about Reagan. He may have been idealistic, but he certainly wasn't naive. And what he was was very threatening...just the fact that he might have been senile was pretty threatening. Everyone knew he loved this country and would do anything to protect it. Helped that he was personable...but he was threatening and there was a method to his madness. He wasn't naive.

    Paul is naive...on several issues. His stances on some issues are just flat out unrealistic.

  17. #117
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    Bush Administration has no 'Plan B' for Pakistan

    12/30/2007 @ 10:19 am

    Filed by John Byrne



    "For the Bush administration, there is no Plan B for Pakistan."

    Citing US officials operating in the Pakistan policy arena, this is the prognosis of veteran Washington Post reporters Robin Wright and Glenn Kessler in Sunday editions of the paper. The Post ran the story on page 24.

    Kessler and Wright paint a US foreign policy unchanged by the assassination of erstwhile prime minister Benazir Bhutto, one aimed at propping up controversial strongman Pervez Musharraf -- and lone pro-US leader in the country -- with hundreds of millions of dollars in aid. Next year, the US will begin a five-year, $750 million plan intended to bring jobs and security to restive border regions.

    ( Boutons: We know from how State and Defense have tightly un-monitored the 100s of $Bs that disappeared in Iraq that the $Bs pumped in Pakistan will hit the target. Yeah right, directly into the plutocracy and/or into the AQ/Taleban. Very effective, astute Repug leadership: bomb the out of a country and/or throw 100s of $Bs at it )

    "Despite anxiety among intelligence officials and experts, however, the administration is only slightly tweaking a course charted over the past 18 months to support the creation of a political center revolving around Musharraf, according to U.S. officials," the reporters write.

    "Plan A still has to work,"
    a senior administration official involved in Pakistan policy told the paper. "We all have to appeal to moderate forces to come together and carry the election and create a more solidly based government, then use that as a platform to fight the terrorists."

    Bush's policy remains "wedded" to Musharraf despite warnings from experts and others who say his dictatorial methods are "untenable," they say. The Pakistani president recently deposed Supreme Court justices who would no go along with his plans.

    "This administration has had a disastrous policy toward Pakistan, as bad as the Iraq policy," Robert Templer of the International Crisis Group told the Post. "They are clinging to the wreckage of Musharraf, flailing around. . . . Musharraf has outlived all possible usage to Pakistan and the United States."

    Replied the US official: "We have a room full of tigers in Pakistan. This is a really complicated situation, and we have to use our influence in a lot of ways but also realize we can't determine the outcome. We're not dropping pixie dust on someone to anoint them as the next leader."

    On Washington's agenda is getting another former prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, to reverse his plans to boycott a Jan. 8 election, which may be postponed due to Bhutto's killing and the subsequent unrest. Sharif could create a "centrist space" for Pakistani politics, though his platform is anti-American.

    Musharraf toppled Sharif's government in a 1999 military coup. The former general has accused Sharif of attempting to kill him.

    Experts say Bush's plan to steer his foreign policy ship along the "Plan A" course is dangerous at best. "Farcical elections" will produce an anemic government ripe for Musharraf's manipulation, a Brookings Ins ution scholar said.

    "It's folly," added C. Christine Fair of the Rand Corp. "Pakistanis are going to read [elections] as a sham to prop up Musharraf as Washington's water boy."

    Others offer even dimmer scenarios.

    "In the best case for the Taliban and al-Qaeda, and the worst case for the world, Pakistan could fall into such turmoil that the very control of the state could fall into Islamist hands, or Pakistan could effectively fracture -- with its massive armaments, including dozens of nuclear weapons, falling into the wrong hands," J. Alexander Thier, a former UN official told the Post.

    Read Wright and Kessler's full story here.

  18. #118
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    Now that Bhutto is dead, and considering how important she was to US for faking dubya's "freedom and democracy" of Mushareff's regime, her words may be listened to (but not by chauvinist assholes here who think America is perfect and all other countries suck) :


    Benazir Bhutto: US Policy Causes World Terrorism

    Benazir Bhutto paid the ultimate price for stating that the US imperial policy of propping up tin horn dictators causes world terrorism. She dared to say so. Condemning what she called "A False Choice for Pakistan", the late Benazir Bhutto laid "terrorism" at the White House doorstep, blaming US policies for causing, fueling and inspiring what US regimes call "terrorism".
    When the United States aligns with dictatorships and totalitarian regimes, it compromises the basic democratic principles of its foundation -- namely, life, liberty and justice for all. Dictatorships such as Musharraf's suppress individual rights and freedoms and empower the most extreme elements of society. Oppressed citizens, unable to represent themselves through other means, often turn to extremism and religious fundamentalism.Benazir Bhutto, A False Choice for Pakistan
    (Boutons: eg, occupying and supporting the oppressive, theocratic regime in Saudi Arabia, which supplied the 9/11 attack team )

    The claim that she died from having banged her head is a ludicrous cover story not even worthy of the Bush regime. Bhutto's considered remarks are consistent with previous articles on this blog, specifically: Terrorism is always worse under GOP regimes. Bhutto would have found FBI statistics that support her analysis: the root causes of "terrorism" are US imperialistic policies, specifically the material and diplomatic support of dictators like Musharraf and earlier, Saddam Hussein and the Shah of Iran, et al. It should be obvious that citizens of other nations resent US support of dictators who oppress them.
    For too long, the international perception has been that Musharraf's regime is the only thing standing between the West and nuclear-armed fundamentalists.Nothing could be further from the truth. Islamic parties have never garnered more than 13 percent in any free parliamentary elections in Pakistan. The notion of Musharraf's regime as the only non-Islamist option is disingenuous and the worst type of fear-mongering.Much has been said about Pakistan being a key Western ally in the war against terrorism. It is the fifth-largest recipient of US aid -- the Bush administration proposed $785 million in its latest budget. Yet terrorism around the world has increased. Why is it that all terrorist plots -- from the Sept. 11 attacks, to Madrid, to London, to Mumbai -- seem to have roots in Islamabad?Benazir Bhutto, A False Choice for Pakistan
    The policies Bhutto alludes to are primarily those of the right wing, the GOP in particular, though Democrats and every other party are compromised by the US Military/Industrial Complex, at the very heart of US imperialism and, thus, the root cause of terrorism. War is a racket fought by the masses for privileged elites, big corporations, and venal politicians like Bush. The war racket creates victims in the US and enemies --potential terrorists --abroad.

    War policies benefit a tiny elite, no-bid contractors like Halliburton and Blackwater and their stockholders. The war against Iraq is financed by America's working poor and middle classes who continue to pay for the war with their lives abroad and with their jobs, their retirement prospects, and their access to health care at home.

    Because of Reagan/Bush tax cuts, this group disproportionately and unfairly picks up the tab for a war that has created for the US legions of enemies. But no friends. [See: Frankenstein the CIA created, Mujahideen trained and funded by the US are among its deadliest foes, reports Jason Burke in Peshawar, Sunday January 17, 1999, Guardian Unlimited]

    The policies that oppress Americans have even worse effects for millions who must live under repressive regimes backed by Bush and his sponsors in big oil.
    The National Accountability Bureau has persecuted opposition leaders for a decade on unproven corruption and mismanagement charges, hoping to grind them into submission. However, when politicians accused of corruption cross over to the regime, the charges miraculously disappear.

    Musharraf's regime exploits the judicial system as yet another instrument of coercion and intimidation to consolidate its illegitimate power. But the politics of personal destruction will not prevent me and other party leaders from bringing our case before the people of our nation this year, even if that could lead to imprisonment.Benazir Bhutto, A False Choice for Pakistan
    Bhutto refers to Bush's remarks in his State of the Union address. In that address, Bush said that the great question of the day "... is whether America will help men and women in the Middle East to build free societies and share in the rights of all humanity." Benazir Bhutto was not naive. I am sure that she understood that Bush's remarks were but a sop to the audience, his base, the media, the gullible. Bush, a proven liar, must be judged only by his actions. He does not get the benefit of the doubt. Like every other GOP regime, he has made terrorism worse. The Brookings Ins ution had written a report based on FBI stats. It was en led: Total Acts of Terrorism in the US 1980-98, America's Response to Terrorism. It dealt primarily with Ronald Reagan's similarly failed "War on Terrorism". Brookings, inexplicably, pulled the article. Nevermind! I have saved the chart that they prepared based on FBI stats. The conclusion now safe from a conservative memory hole is this: during the two year period in which Ronald Reagan promised "terrorists" that "you can run but you can't hide", terrorist attacks against the United States increased. There were, as I recall, about three times as many terrorist attacks against US interests as during the Clinton administration. [Source: Total Acts of Terrorism in the US 1980-98, America's Response to Terrorism, The Brookings Ins ution (Based on FBI Statistics)] As it was in the economic sphere, the Reagan administration was utterly ineffective against terrorism.

    Reagan's adventure in Lebanon is remembered for two things: a) the thousands of lives lost amid even more waves of refugees; b) Reagan's ignominious pull-out following the bombing of the US marine barracks. Thought cowardly at the time, it may be too charitable in retrospect to attribute to Reagan remorse for having wrongly invaded to begin with. That's too much to expect from the GOP. In this earlier invasion, Ronald Reagan supported Israel just as Bush has done more recently. [See: Reagan Orders Marines Out of Lebanon]

    Bush's continuing partnership with big oil is salt in the wound. Millions disaffected by US oil imperialism understand better than do Americans the reasons a Bush regime supports the ruthless dictators who oppress them. As an Iranian diplomat told me in Houston: oil is a curse. He was not alone. Many "industry-watchers" now use the term "curse" to refer to the nature of oil exploitation that democracy, public ins utions, and civil liberties are often re ed because of it. Civil liberties are most often dispensed with altogether.

    Oil wealth concentrates at the top. People in Venezuela, Nigeria, and Azerbaijan enjoy few benefits of oil production in their countries. We now see in the US the unseemly spectacle that other nations have always known, that is, ruthless factions scrapping for control and riches. US policy and its fascist partnership with big oil inspires resentment among those who are left out, those who bear the brunt, those for whom oil means only oppression.

    Bush's base —the nation's elite, his corporate sponsors, and the so-called defense industry —have paid nothing, risked nothing! Rather —they feed at the trough. The upper one percent of the population has gotten several tax cuts while the big oil companies report record profits rising concurrently with higher prices at the pump.
    Just two days after 9/11, I learned from Congressional staffers that Republicans on Capitol Hill were already exploiting the atrocity, trying to use it to push through tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy. ... We now know that from the very beginning, the Bush administration and its allies in Congress saw the terrorist threat not as a problem to be solved, but as a political opportunity to be exploited. The story of the latest terror plot makes the administration’s fecklessness and cynicism on terrorism clearer than ever.

    Hoping for Fear, by Paul Krugman, Using Fear Commentary, NY Times
    There are big profits in the death business. Go to Texas and consult the CEO of Murder, Inc., otherwise known as DynCorp.
    The war in Iraq has boosted DynCorp's revenues, responsible for about $400 million of the company's nearly $2 billion in sales. And while the company didn't specify how much the effort has added to profits, there has certainly been an upside, Lagana said, although he added that profit margins are lower than in other private industry -- often below 10 percent.

    For government contractors and other US-based businesses that are doing work in Iraq, the war there has continued to provide opportunity and benefits, although experts and companies alike say they are difficult to quantify. To be sure, security businesses, oil producers and defense contractors are among the biggest winners. Those who manufacture key products, from bulletproof vests to bullets themselves, and, more recently, those involved in reconstruction, have reaped the benefits, too.

    --Businesses find benefits, costs in war work
    Given their miserable records, why do GOP regimes persist? I can think of two reasons off hand. 1) wars are easily exploited to stir feelings of patriotism and false pride; 2) the GOP is the official party of big oil. Big oil depends upon the GOP to wage its oil wars. You pick up the tab. In return, the GOP gets a lot of money with which to steal and/or rig elections.

    In the meantime, Americans are less safe under the dictators of "Imperial America". According to the Pew Research Center, American skepticism about the war in Iraq has increased steadily from its inception. The war in Iraq, like American imperial policies cause terrorism.

    Now --let's put to rest the idiotic "cover story" that Bhutto's "main death" was a bump on the head. BS!!! It was a mob style hit job and there is unambiguous video of at least two hit men.

    Two 'Hit Men' Murder Bhutto

    In the meantime, consistent with US destruction of 911 evidence, "fire crews" hose down the crime scene. Evidence against Bhutto's murderers may be lost forever. Bhutto's Assassination Evidence DestroyedUPDATED: Mobile pictures - Benazir was defintely shot dead before the Blast

    Related developments from Information Clearing House:
    Iraq: At least 16 killed in another bloody day of US occupation : The bodies of three people were found in different areas of Baghdad Rioting in Pakistan continues: Nearly 50 people have been killed since the assassination of Benazir Bhutto. President Musharraf vows to restore order after a third day of violence.

    Pakistan TV station shows Bhutto shooter, contradicts government:The footage clearly shows Bhutto collapsing into her armoured- vehicle before the suicide blast, contradicting official government claims that she recoiled only after the blast and cracked her skull on the sunroof.

    Pakistan rejects foreign help in Bhutto investigation:Pakistan rejected foreign help in investigating the assassination of Benazir Bhutto on Saturday, despite controversy over the cir stances of her death and three days of paralyzing turmoil.

    Bolton: US 'helped precipitate' conditions for Bhutto's assassination: John Bolton, former US ambassador to the United Nations, said it was a mistake to collaborate with Bhutto's "desire to get back into the game in Pakistan" and view her as an alternative to the country's current leader, Pervez Musharraf.
    Bhutto herself urged that should she be assassinated, members of the Musharraf government be investigated. Related stories from The Existentialist Cowboy





    http://existentialistcowboy.blogspot...ses-world.html


    =====================

    Well, well, well, I'm looking forward to the chauvinsts trying to refute "The Ugly American" flavor of the above. You're welcome to paste articles.

    dubya should gag on his own vomit when he lies about "spreading freedom and democracy". It's all about American oil/commercial imperialism, not about freedom and democracy.




  19. #119
    Retired Ray xrayzebra's Avatar
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    Her son is to carry the torch for her party. But hubby is going
    to fill in till her son finishes college in England.

    Guess they are following or leading both our countries course in
    history. Clinton/Bush/Bhutto.Read All About It

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    Bush Administration has no 'Plan B' for Pakistan

    12/30/2007 @ 10:19 am

    Filed by John Byrne



    "For the Bush administration, there is no Plan B for Pakistan."

    Citing US officials operating in the Pakistan policy arena, this is the prognosis of veteran Washington Post reporters Robin Wright and Glenn Kessler in Sunday editions of the paper. The Post ran the story on page 24.

    Kessler and Wright paint a US foreign policy unchanged by the assassination of erstwhile prime minister Benazir Bhutto, one aimed at propping up controversial strongman Pervez Musharraf -- and lone pro-US leader in the country -- with hundreds of millions of dollars in aid. Next year, the US will begin a five-year, $750 million plan intended to bring jobs and security to restive border regions.

    ( Boutons: We know from how State and Defense have tightly un-monitored the 100s of $Bs that disappeared in Iraq that the $Bs pumped in Pakistan will hit the target. Yeah right, directly into the plutocracy and/or into the AQ/Taleban. Very effective, astute Repug leadership: bomb the out of a country and/or throw 100s of $Bs at it )

    "Despite anxiety among intelligence officials and experts, however, the administration is only slightly tweaking a course charted over the past 18 months to support the creation of a political center revolving around Musharraf, according to U.S. officials," the reporters write.

    "Plan A still has to work,"
    a senior administration official involved in Pakistan policy told the paper. "We all have to appeal to moderate forces to come together and carry the election and create a more solidly based government, then use that as a platform to fight the terrorists."

    Bush's policy remains "wedded" to Musharraf despite warnings from experts and others who say his dictatorial methods are "untenable," they say. The Pakistani president recently deposed Supreme Court justices who would no go along with his plans.

    "This administration has had a disastrous policy toward Pakistan, as bad as the Iraq policy," Robert Templer of the International Crisis Group told the Post. "They are clinging to the wreckage of Musharraf, flailing around. . . . Musharraf has outlived all possible usage to Pakistan and the United States."

    Replied the US official: "We have a room full of tigers in Pakistan. This is a really complicated situation, and we have to use our influence in a lot of ways but also realize we can't determine the outcome. We're not dropping pixie dust on someone to anoint them as the next leader."

    On Washington's agenda is getting another former prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, to reverse his plans to boycott a Jan. 8 election, which may be postponed due to Bhutto's killing and the subsequent unrest. Sharif could create a "centrist space" for Pakistani politics, though his platform is anti-American.

    Musharraf toppled Sharif's government in a 1999 military coup. The former general has accused Sharif of attempting to kill him.

    Experts say Bush's plan to steer his foreign policy ship along the "Plan A" course is dangerous at best. "Farcical elections" will produce an anemic government ripe for Musharraf's manipulation, a Brookings Ins ution scholar said.

    "It's folly," added C. Christine Fair of the Rand Corp. "Pakistanis are going to read [elections] as a sham to prop up Musharraf as Washington's water boy."

    Others offer even dimmer scenarios.

    "In the best case for the Taliban and al-Qaeda, and the worst case for the world, Pakistan could fall into such turmoil that the very control of the state could fall into Islamist hands, or Pakistan could effectively fracture -- with its massive armaments, including dozens of nuclear weapons, falling into the wrong hands," J. Alexander Thier, a former UN official told the Post.

    Read Wright and Kessler's full story here.




    Wow...you posted a lefty blog. Incredible insight.

    I know what Bhutto said...I know what they all say, they pass the buck to us. Which is the cause of terrorism...



    The reason I have no respect for your POV or that opinion, is because it's ing stupid.


    What casues terrorism is the ty living conditions in those countries.


    The idea that our alliances, or friendships with dictatorial regimes cause it is ing stupid.


    Saddam was a dictatorial regime..not only were we not allied with him, we took his ing ass out...and all you guys whining about our friendships with dictatorial regimes, have not shut the up since...now we're imperialists.


    Futhermore...everyone does business with the Saudies...we have protected them from external threats, but we do not prop that government up, the only reason our military was there was because Saddam was in power...

    And let's see, he tried to sieze Iranian land, he invaded Kuwait...oh yeah, not a ing chance he was going to go after Saudi Arabia was there? Not even when his military was aligning to do it.



    Additionally...when 911 occurred...we were not friendly with the dicatorial regimes in Afghanistan or Pakistan...in fact, we barely knew they existed...and those were the regimes that produced the terrorists for, and set up 911.



    You opinion is ing stupid, like that of hysterical nonsensical ing ....and as for Bhutto...she's like every other leader of a ed up country that stays in power by passing the buck for her own failed leadership.

    They all do it...it works, it directs the anger from their failures as leaders, the miserable living conditions and human rights, of those countries, towards us.


    The way to solve it..is to put in governmental systems that represent all the people, where the leaders are held accountable to the people, and where they can be changed, without a war, or political coup...

    Just like it works here you idiot...which is why ou need to shut the about IRaq...because that is what we are trying to do there...I promise you, the leadership in charge, is not the leadership we would have put in, had we wanted puppet government that was a dictatorial regime...we'd have left Saddam in...we'd be friends with the Iranian leadership.



    The Saudis suck..but the guys most outraged by them are the ones that want to take that country over...Usama.





    It's a shame Bhutto died, but don't be sitting here talking about her corrupt she is, and then use her opinion to justify your similar opinion, you idiot.



    I never said she was a great leader...in fact I said she was a poor leader, and your quotes provided evidence of just that.



    The USA is not the reason Pakistan is a hole, we are not the reason Iran, and Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia are holes, in fact if not for us, those countries would be even greater humanitarian holes than they currently are...the leaders of those countries are the reasons they are holes...yes we ally with some of them, mainly because if we didn't the Russians would have, and they were greater threat, just like we allied with Musharraf, because we needed to get to Afghanistan and isolate the Taliban, he was less ty, and we also put pressure on them all for Democratic Reform...it's really simple to figure out, unless you are ing stupid.
    Last edited by whottt; 12-31-2007 at 08:28 PM.

  21. #121
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    boutons: We're friends with dictatorial regimes. We're ing the world up, we cause all it's problems.


    boutons after we invade a dictatorial regime and remove it's leadership: Imperialism! War for Oil! War Mongers!


    Just shut the up until you make sense.


    boutons: Why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia or Pakistan then?



    Becaause they weren't inviolation of a cease fire with us... and they also hadn't been weakedned by 13 years of sanctions...



    I make sense...you don't. You hysterically scream propagandized and contradictory statements, the only similarities being that USA = Badguy in both of them.

  22. #122
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    Whott the , you're losing it, and it's very amusing.

    I make so much sense that You Can't Handle The Truth of the disaster your right wing buddies dubya and hkead have created.

  23. #123
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    I smell a conspiracy theory. There has to be some proof as to how she was really killed.
    Bush did it, like he blew up (down) the WTC. Everyone
    knows how ruthless he is. Cheney was agging him on.

  24. #124
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Looks like Dubya and Musharraf do have many things in common....

    Bhutto report:
    Musharraf planned to fix elections
    By Saeed Shah | McClatchy Newspapers
    Posted on Monday, December 31, 2007


    NAUDERO, Pakistan--The day she was assassinated last Thursday, Benazir Bhutto had planned to reveal new evidence alleging the involvement of Pakistan's intelligence agencies in rigging the country's upcoming elections, an aide said Monday.

    Bhutto had been due to meet U.S. Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., and Rep. Patrick Kennedy, D-R.I., to hand over a report charging that the military Inter-Services Intelligence agency was planning to fix the polls in the favor of President Pervez Musharraf.

    Safraz Khan Lashari, a member of the Pakistan People's Party election monitoring unit, said the report was "very sensitive" and that the party wanted to initially share it with trusted American politicians rather than the Bush administration, which is seen here as strongly backing Musharraf.

    "It was compiled from sources within the (intelligence) services who were working directly with Benazir Bhutto," Lashari said, speaking Monday at Bhutto's house in her ancestral village of Naudero, where her husband and children continued to mourn her death.

    The ISI had no official comment. However, an agency official, speaking only on condition of anonymity because he wasn't authorized to speak on the subject, dismissed the allegations as "a lot of talk but not much substance."
    Link

  25. #125
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    There is no perfect crime...and now the fingerprints of Benazir Bhuttos real assassins begin to appear....

    Islamabad, Jan 2 (PTI) The controversy over former premier Benazir Bhutto's assassination has taken another turn with a section of her Pakistan People's Party (PPP) claiming she was targeted with sophisticated "laser beam technology".


    Laser technology is operated by computerized technology to shoot the target when the person to be shot gets in the telecommunication circuit and the laser technology acts to its best when the target is busy talking on his/her mobile the computer can easily check the path which is visualized on lap top or screen of the computer used to target with the laser beam at ease. These technology is with developed nation in the field of nuclear technology, US, Russia, and others etc and cannot be easily available to the killer unless provided. Moot question is that did Benazir fell dead as when she was talking on phone if so then the Laser beam is used in first instance and the wound must have burn of radiation caused by this cause which could have been be easily traced or verified by the Doctors or specialist with only physical observation and other tests."
    ...

    Controversy surrounding the assassination intensified yesterday amid reports that crucial records had been removed from the Rawalpindi General Hospital where Bhutto was taken, and claims she was killed using laser-beam technology.

    The Nation on its front page said the gunfire and bomb blasts at Bhutto's election rally "were a decoy to hide the real shooters" and claimed laser technology similar to that used by American forces in Iraq had been used.

    The newspaper cited unnamed sources and said the technology was unlikely to have been available to the al-Qa'ida and Taliban jihadi leader Baitullah Mahsood, whom the Government has said orchestrated the opposition leader's death.

    The report came as a doctor at the Rawalpindi General Hospital disclosed that "the Government took all the medical records after Benazir Bhutto's time of death was read out", adding that he and others had been warned not to talk publicly about the case.
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